Saga Here is my unorthodox Star Wars opinion: change my mind!

I'm relieved I have your permission

 

Palpatine tells Anakin what he wants to hear, he offers quick and easy advice, rather than the hard work and growth demanded by the Jedi. Palpatine is a master manipulator, and It's amazing what that 5% can do when he knows exactly what will get Anakin to justify going against what he knows is right to get what he longs for.

The Jedi assumed Anakin would eventually take to the Jedi life, especially with him possibly being the Chosen One. And they weren't aware of Palpatine's was having a bad influence over him.

So the audience knows what's going on...
Anakin's turn is about how a good person goes bad - how people will use justifications to go against their morals when they want something. We need to see how Anakin shifted his moral compass, how he rationalized his dark deeds to convince himself he's doing the right or necessary thing , but to serve his own greed.

And it's the answer he gives Padmé when she asks what happened.

Again, discovering the death spell with Palpatine is Anakin's only hope. He's not going to say "forget it" or rock the boat in any way. He's gone too far now, and he can't fight or flee, only fawn. Plus he can safely deduce Palpatine is looking for it too, what Sith Lord wouldn't want immortality? They have a pact.

Well, exactly. A lot of people complain that Anakin's turn was too fast, but forget how Luke almost turned, or at least compromised his soul.

I'm saying Anakin's turn was orchestrated over years of grooming, then he's put in a bind where he has to make a snap decision. Which is what it ultimately comes down to: Anakin and Luke both react impulsively to protect their loved ones. The difference is Anakin had years of Jedi training which Palpatine had to counter. But in the end, in acting on negative emotions, one enters the slippery slope to the dark side.

To be a Jedi, one must search the depths of their own soul, and master themselves. Luke's final confrontation with Vader was this trial, which he ultimately passed. Anakin had a series of failures that led up to his turn, because he wanted an easier solution to his flaws than mastering himself. And I say that's because Palpatine subtly influenced him that way.

 

The Jedi were not aware that Anakin was spending a lot of time with Palpatine? They did not notice that he went from a kid that was kind, caring and very selfless to an angry young man, more focused on himself and full of arrogance? And if they knew that Palpatine had talked to him all this time and they did notice this change, would they not suspect that Palpatine was not a good influence?

In RotS, some Jedi do note that Anakin was perhaps too close to Palpatine.

How exactly did these talks with Palpatine get started? Did Palpatine out of the blue ask to talk with Anakin all alone? Did the Jedi not find it odd that Palpatine, the chancellor of the Republic, should take time out of his busy schedule to sit and talk with a Jedi pupil?

First how much of a "good man" Anakin was pre-turn is debatable.

Second, this sounds like arguing the audience is full of idiots.
Why Anakin is desperate to save Padme is pretty clear and makes some sense.
And what would also make sense is that after the death of Mace, Anakin is now complicit in that and he would know that the Jedi would come after Palpatine and likely himself once they found out.
So taking out the Jedi is "reasonable". They could come after him and they certainly would come after Palpatine and if they kill Palpatine, Anakin looses the "Stop-death spell."
So Anakin siding with Palpatine and going after the Jedi needs no "Jedi plot against the Senate" to work.

What I think happened is that Anakin's turn was changed late in the game. During shooting, he sided with Palpatine earlier and his reasons were a combination of dissatisfaction with the Jedi, a desire for order and also Padme. He never told Mace that Palpatine was a sith and he was with Palpatine when Mace and co entered. Then Lucas changed that to be 100 % about Padme but only reshot some scenes, other scenes are still left in the film. I suspect but do not know, that the bit where Palpatien talks about the Jedi going after the senate was one of those left over scenes.

First is Anakin established as someone that is calm and does not let his feelings run away with him? No, he is instead a person that is quite impulsive. Also, is Anakin is very rational and logical in that moment? I do not think he was. He had been consumed by fear for a while, pulled between his duty to the Jedi and his friendship with Palpatine.
So in that moment, Anakin is not cool, calm and collected, instead his emotions are running wild.
So him not even flinching when told that all this talk of a "Stop-Death spell" was just that, talk is odd.
When denied the rank of Master, Anakin had an outburst.
Plus it is even odder that Palpatine admitted this. He should know that Anakin is not exactly a rock of stability even in the best of circumstances, and here Anakin would be even more on edge.

Second, Palpatine said he had it and then admitted that he did not and only offered vague assurances. Would Anakin not think that this was BS from the start and there never was any truth to what Palpatine said? Again he has no outside proof of any of this.

And given what was said with Luke, that killing once in hate is enough to turn you, the question becomes how Anakin can kill over and over again in hate and not turn. He massacred a whole camp of Sand People, including women and children and that did not turn him. He murdered Dooku at Palpatine's prompting and still did not turn.

And another big difference is that Anakin willingly sided with Palpatine and turned evil in order to get something he wanted. Palpatine has nothing Luke wants, expect maybe to die. And yet if Luke had killed in hate, he would have become Palpatine's slave right there and then.

And I would argue that severing the connection to his mother at age nine and Anakin was left in a limbo of not knowing if she was fine or not and he missed her and very likely would have asked the Jedi if they could help his mother and almost certainly been told no. That he should just let go of her and not worry.
Even when he brings up his nightmares about his mother, Obi-Wan brushes them off.

Anakin had an attachment to his mother and the Jedi expected him to just let go of it despite him being older than other Jedi pupils and likely had a stronger attachment than they did.
But the Jedi did not seem to do anything different in this very special case.

I am not saying it is the Jedi's fault that Anakin turned but I also do not think they can absolve themselves of any blame either.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

not only this we go from "Palpatine is a politician, I have observed that he is very clever at following the passions and prejudices of the senators" to

"the darkside of the force surrounds the Chancellor" with no further explanation....how long has it "surrounded the chancellor" ? what did the Jedi do about it? (waits for the inevitable, watch the TCW response...)

ROTS is full of things like this. The audience is expected to just go along with it I guess "ok cool, the darkside has suddenly surrounded the chancellor, right next scene then"

Also in ROTS they know Palpatine is an iffy character yet still send Anakin along to be chums with him anyway....asking him to spy on him. With only Obi-Wan seemingly raising some kind of resistance "Anakin I am on your side I didn't want to put you in this situation"
but what kind of protest did Obi-Wan give? A grunt? The classic shake of the head? A hearty objection? we will never know...

 

Disney did more bad to the franchise than good

 

I'd say that's a pretty orthodox opinion but it's also divisive lol

I agree though for sure. Way more bad than good.

 

A very bad take i see. Star Wars was a dead franchise before Disney buyout. And i have seen alot more good then bad.

 

Agree with frizzy...star wars was in a bad way after prequels...only a few kids watching clone wars... they are flawed but then so was Lucas and the EU... without Disney my favourite Star wars rogue one and Andor wouldn't exist

 

I'm of the opposite opinion lol, Star Wars was in a pretty great place in 2012, The Clone Wars was doing incredibly well at the time, on the game front there were still releases like The Force Unleashed series, which were divisive but pretty popular. Sure, there was only one or two projects in production, but all the resources were going to them, rather than divided up between multiple shows and movie plans and what have you.

 

I didn't read EU and wasn't a gamer so was pretty poor for me and the prequel aftermath was still being felt. I actually think the gaming community followed by the YouTube content creators turned fandom on its head .. think it something to do with the interactivity and not just being passive viewers

 

Compared to the 80s and 90s, Star Wars was a very active and successful franchise after ROTS. I personally would've liked to see it stay the course for a while longer, as I loved TCW and the general vibe of Star Wars at the time, but GL had an even grander vision for TV shows and Lucasfilm wasn't exactly raking it in. He would probably have had to lay people off to keep the company afloat, which is why he started thinking about making a third trilogy after all.

Now, if George had made Episode VII first and then handed over the rest of the trilogy, all mapped out in advance, to the next generation, things would undoubtedly have been different today...

 

The claim that Star Wars was somehow "dead" before Disney got their mitts on it is hilarious. If it was so dead and bad under George, they wouldn't have bought it. I would argue that now it's more dead than it ever was, given how every next show has lower viewership than the last one, and the cultural and critical perception of the franchise is now at an all time low, thanks to the awful, malicious sequels and the unending stream of Disney's terrible homogenized TV output. There is nothing interesting: just more nostalgia pandering, and throwing boring, bland, homogenized **** at the wall, and seeing what sticks—but almost nothing does, and the viewership numbers reflect that very well.

 

Funny you are, lol there is a reason George Lucas only got 4 billion. And now its worth 70 billion.

 

You really don't remember the uproar the prequel caused.??..GL was unfairly loathed in a lot of fan quarters just look back at the earlier message boards...it's only louder now cos of social media

 

Anyone remember the fan film, George Lucas ruined my childhood.

 

The fandom menace too with interviews from fans outside the phantom menace demanding apologies from George. Pretty decent film in my book and my daughter had a jar jar in her bed growing up

 

No, but I do remember The People Vs. George Lucas...

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Thats the one yess

 

The RLM reviews! Aah, that takes me back...
"Good" times.

 

It did have someone singing the Song George Lucas "Messed Up" my Childhood...

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You and me both!