Andor Andor Season 2 Discussion (Spoliers Allowed)

Right, this was set up by;

1. Partagaz tasking Lonni with representing ISB at Dr. Gorst’s new Navy project HQ (Lonni would then communicate the Dr’s location to Luthen, of course)

2. Cassian saying “if you want my blood, you’ll help me work this out,” referring to Bix’s mental issues. Luthen finds a way to help.

3. The bat signal.

 

Its pretty inline with this season generally I would say were the show asks a bit more of the viewer in terms of connecting some of the dots in terms of plotlines but IMHO it works because the show doesn't skip on dramatic progression.

Outside of the amazingly good location design/realisation I think were watching absolutely first rate political thriller here. Its a very good example of a fantasy/sci fi setting actually enhancing the drama/politics IMHO because it can't fall back to cheaper real world references.

 

But I digested what I watched and I get what's happening. Its just very meh.

Its all stuff I've seen done better in other media.

 

You don't get what's happening if you have to ask if this is a character study into the human condition. But I think at this point you're not entering the discussions in good faith but instead are trying to bait/troll people about the show so perhaps it's time to leave.

 

@clonegeek
You should elaborate a little bit on your opinions on the show rather than just writing one-liners about the show being mediocre in your view.

For example, "I've seen this stuff done better in other media"... that's ok, but what media? What "stuff"? In what regard were those media better? What is it about the show that is not working for you? Give us something a bit specific so we can exchange opinions.

 

I think Andor doesn't hit for some because they're assuming it should be more like the action genre. It's too mature and cerebral as a result, which can make it feel like nothing is happening -- since they expect something like Mission Impossible.

But I personally like the unique approach the creators have taken here -- Star Wars with brains. We shouldn't expect it to appeal to everyone, but those who don't like it should just watch something else.

 

In terms of "its been done before" again I would say that I think Andor shifting things from a thriller set in the real world or a WW2 spy drama does mean its characters/ideas are forced to stand on their own more.

Granted I think SW can and sometimes has looked to get by on references to itself but we get relatively little of that here and instead a show which puts a hell of a lot of time into building its characters/politics well. Very rarely do I remember watching a show as dense as this in terms of character, you barely ever see a scene which is only interested in pushing the plot, if there's a chance to slip in character building, even for relatively minor characters it almost always happens.

Politically as well I think it arguably hits harder, the detachment from reality I think makes it harder to dismiss these elements in the way you might if this were covering real world fascism in the WW2 era.

 

Well, no to everything. The dialogue in literally any episode of Andor also is not dialogue that you can say in real life. And not because we're not spies. But because it's supposed to be exaggerated, and dramatic, and over the top. That little speech by Vel towards the rebel who messed up? Very cool, but it simply doesn't happen in real life. Same thing with every praised Luthen monologue.

And to your example, I will take Anakin and Padme talking about the dangers of authoritarianism on the fields of Naboo, but also them talking about their love by the waterfall, EVERY DAY over the dialogue between Will and Beela in the wheatfield. You have the right to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that your opinion is the Right Way to do it.

1. I don't find Andor slow. And I do find some of its writing overrated and mediocre. I also don't find it more realistic and less theatrical, quite the opposite. I find the majority of the conversations in Andor blindingly pretentious and targeted, which does not help suspend my disbelief. Theree are numerous examples that I can mention, but I will stand to Saw Guerrera's crazy fit by the rhydonium. If this scene was literally identical in one of the prequels, the same fanbase that now praises it would rip it apart. I mean I liked it, but I liked it because of how powerful it was, albeit the definition of cheesy and over the top.

2. Your statements about the Acolyte and the Sequels in the Disney era is something I agree with. But I don't agree with the rest. The Mandalorian and Ahsoka have much better writing than Andor for me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me, as long as they realize that their disagreement is by definition subjective, and not some kind of universal truth.

Fair enough, but the majority of the Andor topics don't allow any negative opinion to be expressed, without Andor hardcore fans trying to (a) invalidate, (b) mock or (c) straight up use irony and belittlement towards people who might somehow not find Andor the best thing that has ever existed. And in any case, my disagreement has to do with the majority argument. Who cares what the majority says? Why would I ever watch something based on what the majority says? The majority voted for an orange single cell organism, so I don't really trust it anyway.

And this is my main gripe with Andor, honestly. I have watched all the Bourne movies. I have watched better spy thrillers than the Bourne movies (like the MI movies for example). I have tried to watch House Of Cards. I've seen Homeland, ALIAS, Person Of Interest, Mr. Robot... all of them far superior over Andor. Why would Andor impress me? I am enjoying it quite a bit, but that's it.

 

Right. I’ve heard complaints that the concluding plot line on Coruscant being the removal of a listening device at a party just didn’t cut it, compared to big crescendo action scenes (like Aldhani, for example). But that whole thing was even more tense than Aldhani for me because the stakes were so well-built for it. If that device is found, the whole revolutionary structure that we’ve seen operating since the beginning of S1 will unravel. And then, it was just so interestingly executed from a world building perspective. AND it manages to be darkly funny, multiple times. I’m really in awe of how they pulled that off, really. Because it could’ve been a total dud in the wrong hands.

That’s fine. But personally, the love between Cassian and Bix displayed in Andor S2, episodes 4-6, was the most convincing depiction of love I’ve seen in Star Wars yet.

 

I think it’s one thing to have your own opinion, it’s absolutely another to complain about other peoples collective opinion. Especially when it’s to do with a piece of art and not something more serious (like a certain political leader…)

If the other poster had a problem with everyone liking Andor so much…maybe the issue is with them and not the show.

 

Yeah, this kind of debate always happens when someone says, vaguely and obviously provocatively, “everyone is overrating this thing because it’s not that good.” Essentially declaring that people are dumb for appreciating a piece of art that you don’t think is all that good. And then the provocateur either acts surprised when people challenge them on it, refuse to elaborate and discuss, or play the victims of the consensus.

A better approach is to simply speak for yourself and your own opinion, and then describe the nature of your critique. @Master Jedi Fixxxer generally takes that approach, but others don’t. And it borders on trolling.

 

Again though I feel like the issue with a lot of such thrillers with a setting in the real world is that they tend to get drawn into more straight forward characters and plots which exist for the sake of cheaper twists/reveals. Gilroy has I think done stuff like Michael Clayton and State of Play previously which I think do have more than this too them but still I think the detachment from reality with Andor actually allows its characters to have more interesting and genuine feeling development to it and the politics to have much greater range in allegory.

If were were just watching a twisty thriller which was driven mostly via plot I might agree but thats not what we've seen thus far IMHO.

 

I totally agree this with this but also everybody should recognize that the Kenobi show was terrible.

 

Partly. Inquisitor stuff was absolutely terrible but the Leia stuff was mostly pretty good.

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi is my favorite of the shows. Andor is somewhere in the middle for me. I do love it but I just love some of the other ones a little more.

 

My favorite is The Mandalorian and Ahsoka.

 

Andor is far, far, far from anything George Lucas I believe would ever have conceived for Star Wars. Other series are much closer in line with how he presented and wrote those OT films. However, the political intrigue, spying, that kind of thing, occurred much more in the PT.

Andor is some of the best Star Wars content I've watched since the OT, up there with Clone Wars/Rebels. It's one of the BEST TV series I've watched in the last 10 years for sure. It may not rise to Breaking Bad-level, but the way they are interweaving so many different arcs, in such a short amount of screen time, is really phenomenal. While other Disney+ projects may be ones to show film students on how NOT to direct and edit a series, Andor is without question what they should be teaching.

Coming on the heels of a very entertaining Skeleton Crew, it's been a good rebirth for Star Wars (for me). Even though I'm in my 40's, I can absolutely enjoy a well rounded show geared towards kids/teens like SC and one geared to the older folk like Andor.

 

Andor's style may be different - more spy-espionage thriller rather than pulpy Saturday matinee - but I think the spirit is still the same. And ANH has some very interesting, almost throw-away, bits of details at the larger world that fits right in league with Andor. We just never saw it on screen. It all makes it feel real. While many tend to immediately think of the dirt and grime that made SW unique, and a realistic sci-fantasy story, its also about those details he wove into the story, that almost go amiss if you're not paying attention.

Lucas also - supposedly - really loved Rogue One. Its probably the most original story from the Disney era, that isn't just a complete copy/paste job of the OT.

 

It's not. The story came from John Knoll, who was working on the prequels and Lucas' live-action Underworld TV-show, and the story of stealing the death star plans was intended for that show. Lots of Disney stuff is just recycling Lucas' unused ideas or the EU. There are more unoriginal things than not.

Rogue One is a technically impressive movie, so I imagine Lucas appreciated that. Hard to say whether he liked the actual content of it, unless we hear it from the man himself.

 

I mean … it’s the most original story for the movies that we’ve gotten. it’s not the copy paste stuff that JJ was doing. It’s not just ANH all over again. (Which Lucas complained about).

 

This Leia stuff?

 

To be fair I think the OT does have a decent amount of Rebel/Imperial content to it and bar the Ewoks involvement it tends to be dealt with in a very serious fashion, what were seeing with Andor is I think that kind of content being taken to the fore.

 

It's also a similar documentary style to the original