A/V Just Announced 7 Years Ago: Andor!! It happened!!!

Fair. Honestly, there is more than a bit of that with the Nihil in general - I know it was because they were trying to get as far from an imperial type villain as possible, but it does still leave some undertones of uptightness = morality.

Though that is all the more reason I would like to see wreckpunk around in GCW and popular with rebels

Same. I mean, we didn't see everyone at the base, so she could have been around, but it is true her abandonment could have just as easily occurred sometime earlier that year, and it would have been the most logical place to put her into that show

....actually, having just rewatched Jyn and Saw's scene in Rogue One, I wonder if Luthen is who Saw was referring to when he was talking about people figuring who she was and wanting to use her as a hostage.

Oh, good point. I never considered that option, but now that you pointed it out, it would make a lot of sense.

There are also going to be some Jeddha scenes. I wonder if any of the other Rogue One team might get a brief scene. Particularly Boddhi since his defection sets off Rogue One's plot.

Huh. Wild.

Honestly I've never been too picky about what looks star wars or not - even within A New Hope alone there are multiple distinct aesthetics for Tatooine, Yavin, Rebel Ship, Imperial ships/station etc - but honestly Rogue One and Andor have felt the most at home with old school star wars, for reasons I can't quite put my fingers on.

 

I'm always in favor of more Bodhi.

 

Does the depiction of Chandrila match closely with other EU? (Legends and New Canon?)

I don't think I ever ready many books where it was actually prominent in some way, so I'm curious.

I will say it's interesting Disney has definitely made both Alderaan and Chandrila into more of
an aristrocracy, instead of more like Naboo where royal titles are preserved but it's actually democratic.

But I'm curious about the depiction of Chandrila in general.

Spoiler

More of a "friends with benefits" affair, it's not like marriages have stopped those before. Kleya also brings up they should be flirting.

It probably won't be confirmed, but they just both seem gay-coded and their dynamic in the second arc was interesting.

It's not really something that I'm pulling for lol, but just sharing my gut instinct, in case anyone else thought so.

 

dp

 

The only thing I ever remember of Chandrila in Legends was the underground Jedi tomb complex in Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. I never figured Chandrila to be full of white folks wearing Korean cultural clothing. It always seemed like another Alderaan to me.

 

Chandrila's government is largely unchanged. In Legends it had a Governor and a Legislature called the Chandrilan House. Every indication pointed to it being a democratic republic.

Canon retained the Governor, and in Mask of Fear the Legislature is called the Chandrilan House of Representatives. But that is less invention and more adding detail to what had come before. So Chandrila has always had a republican system of government.

With that said, this conflict between the "traditional" culture and those who aren't very fond of it is very much a new idea. We never saw much of Chandrila culturally in Legends. It came off as one of those generic pro-Republic planets. Broadly speaking the Chandrilans were presented as pacifistic and artistic. Rich but generous. Vaguely limousine liberal with a touch of noblesse oblige was the tone I got from Legends books that addressed Chandrila. Nothing we've seen in Andor excludes this depiction, but it does paint a more harmonious social system than what is seen in Andor.

It's worth noting, of course, that it is largely the adults who chafe at custom in Andor. The most enthusiastic are the youth, which is quite the shakeup in how Legends typically dealt with any overly traditional culture; usually its the old guard who are obsessed with tradition and the youth are rebelling.

Funnily enough Canon seems to have made Naboo even more democratic. The E.K. Johnson Queen trilogy gives Naboo a legislative Assembly. Whereas in Legends the implication was that the monarchy on Naboo was an elective dictatorship restrained only by the ballot and term limits.

 

I actually think Rogue One and Andor feel more jarring than the sequel films, because they take those old familiar backdrops like the Yavin temple hangar and combine it with the new style.

 

Indeed.

I remember them from Rogue Squadron, but yeah the impression I got was in general Alderaan lite. Similar clothes, similar buildings, similar culture, similar environment, both major rebelion supporting planets so on and etc. So I do like it being a bit more distinctive in Andor.

...though I hope Hanna City remains a coastal city rather than everything being all mountains from this point forward.

I do remember Chandrila being described as very argumentative, to the point of treating debate as a high cultural art, and thus very prone to political protests and the like which does seem a bit at odds with the ultra-traditional society we are seeing here, albeit not impossible to reconcile, cultures can be contradictory like that and it is easy to imagine this largely being an elite thing (notably Davo is noted to be something of a social climber and expresses his distaste for tradition despite using his collection of artifacts and traditional marriage into an old money family to gain legitimacy among the elite) with Chandrilian commoners being different. Though yeah, this otherwise matches my perceptions.

I think the council of people Padme was talking during the invasion were established early on to be other parts of government that the monarch couldn't just run roughshod over. In particular, I got the impression the kings and queens got a lot of advice from the governor who, while also elected, seemed a more stable and experienced position.

I guess I can see that, though personally I feel they did a good enough job of capturing the old style that it doesn't feel out of place to me.

 

Everything about this show is so, so refreshing. For the second time in a row, it's stepped in at exactly the right time to remind us that SW on TV can actually be fantastic. A tight and well-paced story, solid plotting and character progression, skillful editing without any stupid wipes, a willingness to recast iconic roles --- it's night and day between this show and everything else.

The end of the first three-ep arc was a little jarring, knowing that they were going to leave everything behind and skip ahead a year, but after seeing it done twice now it feels a lot more normal. It also makes it easier for them to tag different characters in and out, with the time jumps allowing any given character to have a bigger or smaller role for three eps as needed. Good stuff.

 

Does anyone think that they'll reveal that the real reason Tarkin takes the Death Star away from Krennic is jealousy over Krennic causing a bigger Ghorman massacre than he did?

 

3 episodes left, but this is the greatest TV series in all of SW, Live Action and Animated. Period.
Heck, depending on how the last 3 episodes go, it might surpass the NJO series as my most favorite series in all of SW.
1. NJO book series.
2. Andor
3-5 Legacy Vol 1/KOTOR comics/X-Wing book series (Can't decide an order for these three).

If you haven't watched Andor because it doesn't have Jedi vs Sith/The Force, and lightsabers, you are missing out on one of the great SW experiences, you can ever get.

 

Its still just fine in my eyes and I just finished this weeks episodes. I still don't buy it as a prequel to ANH

 

Spoiler

-Man, the Ghorman massacre build up was so intense. Like, I knew it was going to happen, and yet still the dread build up was....I just had to remind myself to breath every once and a while.

-The Ghorman anthem makes me feel patriotism for a fictional planet, damn it.

-Also loved their silly space airhorns

-What a beautiful shot of Palmo at the beginning

-And that radio transmission, just, haunting.

-Scar guy immediately made himself a clear hardarse even by imperial standards

-The dawning horror of realising they opened the square and used the blockades to fortify their base anticipating a fight was just so...*chef's kiss*

-And boy stormtroopers have never looked scarier than the close up of one looking over the crowd.

-Deliberately sending new recruits into the protests and then targeting them with snipers...making great imperial martyrs while also putting in people most likely to panic and start firing without giving orders to fire, not to mention not wasting more experienced, valuable troops...darkly brilliant, and brilliantly dark

-I am eating some space crow about Syril, the sheer weight of imperial preplanned, cold cruelty broke through even to him, to the point of threatening his own partner. Shame his desire for revenge against Cassian got him in the end, plus possibly defending Dedra, it would have been helpful he could have helped confirm that the Ghorman massacre was pre-planned

-Dedra also seem quite affected by all this. Probably dug in way too deep to do anything but dig further, but interesting to see her get emotional in any case, even if she technically succeeds in her goal and gets the promotion she wanted.

-The Ghorman leader realizing what was going on and confronting Syril about his rationalizations was amazing as well.

-"They don't even bother to lie badly anymore" that is definitely a relatable mood.

-I kind of wish we had seen Cassian leaving Luthen to sign up for a different rebel cell, especially since I thought the whole Gorst mission was them reconciling enough to keep working together.

-Loved Yavin being some sort of shared safe base for multiple rebel cells

-But man, I guess Dantooine base is never going to appear in anything.

-Force healer was an interesting bit of worldbuilding, and not something I was expecting of the show, but I very much enjoyed. Had kind of a miko vibe to her clothes, very cool.

-I also love the references to Maarva dealing with a fraudulent one ten years back

-Andor's jungle house is pretty cozy. If star wars land at Disney had multiple worlds to walk around in, that would be a lovely restaurant.

-I also see in it some influence from the Ewok lake vllage art by Mcquarrie

-Cool to see Vel as a friend of the group and doing her own thing as a rebel trainer and smuggler.

-Flying in low over the Ghorman valleys was a great shot.

-I confess to being a little disappointed with Mothma's speech. I mean, it was good, but this show had so many absolutely great ones, and this is Mothma's big moment and key to the formation of the rebellion and even had in show build up...well, honestly maybe nothing could have lived up to my expectations, but I do wish it had a bit more time at least. And if we had seen it move some senators rather than have them all denounce her.

-Similarly, the escape itself felt a bit abrupt. The empire hunting them down on its very capital yet getting to a ship off planet is just handwaved?

-Something I had always been wondering about is how Mothma leaving would affect her family...and it looks like we are still getting no answers. Perrin didn't even appear, and I doubt we will get any follow up next week cause if the Empire got them or not would have already happened.

-And then Willmon's and Bixes' storylines. Well, ok, Wil's was fine on its own, but man it makes me wonder what the hell was the point of his episodes last week if he didn't end up with the Partisans or even become more radical or anything, this Wil feels like he just stepped off Mina-Rau (though on that note, kid has got game)

-And Bix, after last week being about her wanting to be in the fight, she just stays out of the missions without even a reason and plays happy housewife until she realizes she is making him too happy to fulfill his destiny? Well, she isn't fridged I guess, and has agency in making the decision, but it somehow it feels even more on the nose in highlighting how her only real importance is how she makes Cassian feel.

-The imperials in the senate having blue uniforms like the old senate guard was a nice touch.

-Jung's agent huh? Guess that is how Luthen knew Bail's team was infiltrated, though I guess he wasn't able to pass on much intel.

-Where did the Bellhop get a grenade? Definitely used it well though.

-Also loved him recognizing Andor and choosing to help him out

-Man, those KX units were terrifying in action. Didn't even have weapons and still just tore everything apart.

-K2 being activated definitely had some great Frankenstien vibes.

-Classic K2 lines upon waking up. Good to see you again.

-Very cute references to the rebels episode Secrect Cargo

-"Always right where I needed you....Narkina..." wait, what? Luthen didn't have anything to do with Narkina, why is that there? For that matter, surely Andor did jobs off screen for Luthen, why did the show ones come up as important? Like Aldhanni was a big deal and I could see Sienar as one even though we never found out what that was about, but some of the others feel random.

-Eedy has mostly been comically horrible this whole series, and yet seeing her cry over Syril is still somehow effective at tugging the heartstrings.

-Huh, guess quite a few shots I thought would be this arc weren't. Makes me wonder what the final context will be...

 

wait just a moment…. wild prediction for finale:

Spoiler

Are they Poe’s parents??

Continuity-bending, not breaking? Maybe Bix eventually remarries?

I’m not sure, does it work?

I know Poe said his father was a pilot, and he was born in a hut on Yavin…

 

I really hope that we get books and or comics that fill in the gaps between episodes and gives backstories to characters once the series is over

 

I still cringe at the fact that the Emperor rerpeatedly goes Beetle hunting in Yavin IV despite the Rebel Base Setup growing and him knowing its location quote well yet letting his goons search for it regardless. Ah the quiet life of an Emperor.

And why does Andor S2 basically repeat the formula of TFU? The Empire sets up Rebellion and uses it mamipulated as false flag for its purposes. Just less direct than TFUs in the nose founding. Still... They set up their own doom.
Like Sith create a Chosen One by accident...
Evil always defeats itself.

I like it.

 

It’s fairly different though, or at least it makes a lot more sense in Andor.

In TFU they basically form the whole Rebellion with the purpose of bringing together and killing its leaders, only for it to ‘get away.’ That’s actually a lot more similar to the Emperors plan in Return of the Jedi.

Spoiler

In Andor the only real attempt to form the ‘rebellion’ is to pressure the Ghor into armed resistance to have an excuse then massacre them and take their planet. It wasn’t a broad scale attempt to actually snuff out the growing rebellion, and the fact it ended up lighting the tinderbox on fire was more to do Empire’s overconfidence, arrogance and underestimating Luthan’s counter. They just couldn’t tamp down the reaction the galaxy had to it.

Setting up their own doom had kind of always been the idea since A New Hope: “the more you tighten your grip Tarkin, the more systems will slip through your fingers.” The more they push the greater the push back, which is why the war actually breaks out when they destroy Jedha. It’s the contradiction of authoritarian growing into totalitarian power which Nemik identified: “Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.”

The plan of the Sith could never work because it’s so unnatural. The control they desire over all beings was doomed. It’s stifling, it’s inefficient, it breads corruption, it requires them to forever try and hold it together, and in the end it’s the Ultimate Weapon to crush dissent that fashions the noose of their own demise.

 

Ghorman is also a microcosm of what Palpatine did with the Clone Wars, just much more grounded. But this time, we know the Empire will lose control of the narrative.

 

Spoiler

I can only imagine what the Emperor's thoughts on Mon Mothma's speech was. Maybe we should ask Ian McDiarmid what would be Palpatine's thoughts.

 

Spoiler

I love that Syril has this briefest moment where he's tempted. He sees the massacre, sees the mining ships, and knows its a set up. It's contrary to his idea of order for safety. It's just blind greed on the part of the Empire, and even Syril can see it's too much.

But then he sees Cassian, and all his old hatred washes to the forefront. And he makes his choice.

And the best part. Cassian had no clue who he was.

For three years Syril obsessed over this man, and Cassian forgot because he had bigger and better things to think about. Syril dies an ineffective loser. A defective cog. But even after his fight with Dedra you can see that Dedra is badly shaken up by what's gone down. Even the psychopath is having a hard time with it all.

Who knows. Maybe Syril will be forgotten. Maybe the Empire will make him into some Horst Wessel-esque martyr. Ultimately it doesn't matter. Syril had a chance, and he blew it. That's the story of his life, right there.

Got real Poland/Hungary vibes from the Ghorman massacre. The last, desperate radio transmissions as the invader brutally crushes all opposition was very effective.

The Empire's plan was brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. Deliberately send inexperienced troops to clear a path. Shoot one of them with a sniper. The inexperienced troops panic, assume the crowd is firing on them, and light up the crowd. The crowd responds, and the Empire has its excuse to crack down hard. The Empire gets to crush the Ghormans while creating a narrative where they are the heroes and the people they oppress are the villains who got what was coming.

And of course Mon can't handle it anymore. She's going nowhere fast in the Senate. She tries one last time to call Palpatine and the regime out, and the broadcast is shut down before she can really go anywhere. Cassian gets her out, and she's on her way to make the speech and appearances she makes in Rebels.

Didn't see Bix breaking up with Cassian, but it makes sense.

 

While loving SW and enjoying Andor... in the current times geopolitically, it hits hard and different. Despite debating SW here... lets take a moment to realize that what we see here in fiction happens real time out in the world as we speak.

Lets not forget, for many years the Empire, despite an Emperor, was officially still a democracy. Terrorism and Rebellions, Media and Propaganda. It all is too real. Both sides claim to be the good guys blaming the others. Who is lying then?

The galaxy far, far away.. it has come home. It is here and now.

Without stirring unrest here, my prayers go out to anybody anywhere and their loved ones having to live through this.

PS: Yes, some days watching the news right after watching SW seems like continous ongoing story... sadly.

 

Spoiler: Adversaries

I felt like this batch of episodes put in to stark relief why I've been hoping for some sort of appearance by Palpatine. First, we have Wilmon's plea to Cassian to go after Dedra. One of his more salient points is that Dedra has been hunting Luthen since Ferrix, that she is the biggest threat to his portion of the rebel cells. Then, we have Syril, who sees in Andor the author of everything bad in his life (he's projecting, of course), and decides to assault him in the middle of a riot. This brings us to Mon Mothma and her speech. She names the actual author of most bad things in the galaxy, the monster against whom she has positioned herself. In that context, I would have liked to see Palpatine in some form or fashion and his reaction to Mothma's speech.

To be clear, I realize he's not necessary - we have the ISB, Krennic, the whole of the Imperial bureaucracy as the adversaries to the Alliance and Mon Mothma. We know Yularen's call to the ISB coordinator is ultimately at the behest of good ol' Sheev. And I realize that as a build-up to Rogue One, in which Palpatine is not present, it's not particularly important to introduce him (in fact, I can sympathize with the argument that it's better to leave him out precisely to match up w/his lack of presence in RO and ANH). However, I will not be upset if he's a bigger part of the last batch of episodes - even if it's just the morning news programs alluding to his actions or a previous speech.

Spoiler: Wilmon

I understand that not everyone experiences the personal growth I want out of them, but after Brasso's death, in part because Wilmon just had to say goodbye to his girlfriend, you'd think he'd have had more sense than to fall for Dreena. Oh, well. At least he was only injured.

Separately, I was a little disappointed that Wilmon working with Saw for a bit ended up being (so far) a bit inconsequential. Maybe it comes through in how involved he gets in Ghorman?

 

it doesnt work we know who poes parents are

 

Cassian: For me, it was Taungsday.

 

Wow.

All right, general non-spoiler stuff first then the usual spoiler buffers and blinds.

Even by the standards the series has set for itself, this trio easily exceeeded them. There is some stunning ambition across the set, with skilful execution that realises it.

But there's no way to talk of that without spoilers so...

Spoiler

The first episode that lays out the pieces so quietly, yet you know where it is going. Cassian and Wilmon's return to Ghorman, the heavier, more sombre atmosphere there, Dedra and Syril, the complicit journalists, the Ghor... it's all arrayed masterfully. Nor does it limit itself to Ghorman, as Yavin now hosts a far more armed and organised rebellion.

The second episode is an exemplary piece of work. Even as you think you know the Empire's plot, the actual thing itself is even more twisted and evil. There is very clever timing in the build-up to the inevitable detonation, which it then sustains all the way to the end.

Amid all the mayhem, it also shows Syril the truth of his relationship to the perpetually bulldog chewing on a wasp Dedra. It makes it very clear Dedra only thinks she loves him, when what she loves is control. Then, as he flees her and sees all the mayhem in the plaza, the show dangles the notion, ever so briefly, that he may turn on the Empire.

Then he sees Cassian and it's all gone because, really, it's only ever been about Syril. His anger and outrage at Dedra? Not for the sake of the Ghor, but that he was fooled, that he lost. And Syril Karn cannot lose, after all, if he does, what would his mother say?

Then the show pulls the trigger - Syril does get the drop on Cassian, is about to shoot him but stops fractionally when Cassian asks who he is. How can this man not know who Syril Karn is? And that allows Rylanz to shoot him in the head dead!

Still the episode keeps going, the flight from the plaza and the Empire and the K2 droids, as Dreena broadcasts the truth of the slaughter is another excellent sequence. At the end, as Cassian escapes Ghorman, we see two crocodiles crying.

And there's an episode left to go! How the hell is it supposed to follow all that? By switching to Coruscant and the political fallout from the massacre on Ghorman.

This allows us to see what the Senate has become and the extent of control over it the Empire has, including willing collaborator Senators and extensive covert monitoring. It also blows up long dormant plot bombs, like Mothma telling Luthen she knows he had Tay killed, Luthen doesn't deny it.

The escape sequence with Cassian again demonstrates the domination of the Empire on the Senate. Although, at the start of it, Cassian is clearly operating Worricker style by walking instead of running.

And then the end on Yavin, with Draven, and Bix and K-2SO. Cassian may be able to let the Empire go, but Bix can't, so she legs it.

There's also an intriguing sequence on Yavin earlier with a Force healer, who sees something of Cassian's nature, or future. That he tends to be in the right place at the right time, which Luthen also tells him on Coruscant.

It all makes for an incredibly accomplished and brilliantly executed set of episodes.