ST Has your opinion of The Force Awakens changed with the ST finished?

What I’m going to have for dinner tomorrow night isn’t obvious to me yet but I don’t think that qualifies it as a bold decision if I decide to go with pizza. Killing the mentor is one of the most used tropes in all of fiction, to the point where I suspect many who’ve never even heard the term “trope” are still familiar with the idea, and of the mentor characters available I think Han is obviously the most disposable. Your analysis seems to based off values of bold you’ve assigned it on paper, but do you remember “wow, I can’t believe they chose to kill off Han Solo” actually being a common reaction in ~2016? Because I have to say I don’t.

(To answer your question, I’ve never purchased a comic in my life but I found it quite impossible to view any post regarding the MCU on social media post Infinity War without someone in the comments mentioning Iron Man’s impending demise, much to my chagrin. Idk what that information means to you but there it is.)

 

You may think Han's death was predictable as pizza, but many fans were genuinely shocked when The Force Awakens was released. While some of us anticipated it (as a hardcore fan, I expected it), countless viewers were blindsided by this pivotal moment. Moving beyond personal anecdotes, here are articles from 2015-2016 documenting the widespread surprise and emotional impact of Han Solo's demise. Most of these articles label the death shocking/suprising, etc. Hyperbolic? Or simply a pov different than yours?



https://time.com/4156464/star-wars-force-awakens-spoiler-major-scene/

https://starwarsreport.com/2015/12/26/my-han-solo-story-a-fans-reaction-to-the-force-awakens/

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2016...ce-awakens-first-time-reacts-han-solos-death/

https://www.bustle.com/articles/130...ens-his-star-wars-journey-is-an-emotional-one

https://www.tor.com/2015/12/21/one-...-continuously-in-front-of-my-friends-forever/

https://imperialtalker.com/2016/01/19/fan-reactions-to-the-force-awakens/

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-han-solo-didnt-kill-himself-force-awakens/

https://screenrant.com/rise-skywalker-han-solo-cameo-force-awakens-dialogue/

 

Predictable or not, killing Han without him seeing Luke again or reconciling with Leia, remains a stupid idea. Even more stupid is killing off the top box office draw of everyone in the cast.

Also, I was personally offended so there


Killing Poe would have been stupid too, once they decided on Death Star 3: This Time It Means Nothing. Who would have blown it up otherwise?

 

Han didn't reconcile with Leia before his death?


Maybe we have different definitions of "reconcile"?

 

They didn’t really reconcile, as the nature of their relationship seemed to be estranged more than anything else. Clearly they were no longer together, but it’s not like the film was telling us that Han and Leia couldn’t stand the sight of each other… so yes, it would be true to say that their relationship did not change significantly over the course of the TFA, so any ‘reconciliation’ was not pronounced… ergo their issues were *not* reconciled. Obviously we need to take into account that the film is so badly written that Abrams and Kasdan’s intentions may have been something completely different… but it is what it is.

 

They split because the pain of Kylo's actions was too great to deal with together. Leia poured herself into her work. And Han, was Han about it. He took the dog and the RV and left.

They don't see each other for 6 years. And after they 'reunite', she sends him off to his death, never to be seen again, potentially.

She could have chatted with her own son, at any time, but instead sent Han - the one person in her family with no force powers - to deal with Evil Kylo. And bring him home.

Their relationship isn't reconciled. They're not together again. They merely accept their own choices and failures and then separate again.

At best its like two divorced parents seeing each other at their kids wedding and not fighting for 4 hours, and maybe having a few laughs over drinks.

 

Reconcile doesn't mean to rekindle a romance.

To "reconcile with someone" means to make amends and become friendly again after a disagreement or estrangement*. This describes Han and Leia in The Force Awakens, does it not?

*via google search

 

Well, okay, if you want to be pendantic, they didn't rekindle their romance. In fact, it was as if they had never had a romance at all, it was back to ANH Han and Leia because Kasdan never wanted them together.

I mean, I could spend ten posts logging what's wrong with TFA but I'm not sure anyone wants that. So this is one of my top tier complaints.

 

I'm not sure if I am being pendantic. The claim was: "...killing Han without.....reconciling with Leia, remains a stupid idea."

The original suggestion is flat-out wrong. Han and Leia unquestionably reconciled in TFA.

Their reunion showcased genuine warmth, understanding, and that powerful connection they always shared. Their interaction crackled with that classic Solo-Organa chemistry - the meaningful glances, the familiar banter. TFA made it crystal clear they still loved each other despite their separation. Their reconciliation wasn't just implied - it was right there on screen for everyone to see.

 

That's just the definition reconcile in general. There are different kinds of reconciliation.

Reconciling a failed marriage is different. It's a specific reference.

Via google: Reconciling after a divorce means couples decide to attempt to rebuild their marriage after they have finalized their divorce, potentially leading to a second marriage. This is different from reconciliation during a divorce, which involves halting the divorce proceedings and living together with the intention to remain married.

So no. Han and Leia didn't attempt to rebuild their relationship or their marriage after their estrangement/divorce (if that even took place). They speak to one another, and seem friendly. That's it. Then she sends him off to his potential death. None of it is an attempt to rebuild their relationship as it was. If Han survived, maybe it would have led to a reconciliation in the near future.

 

So, by reconcile...you meant....get remarried? You meant Han being killed without rebuilding his marriage with Leia is stupid?

Genuinely asking....

 

Again, I think I saw a different movie...I didn't get any of that. Of course, once we got the "your father Han Solo" nonsense and the whole "I can't take a map to Luke to Leia" and Maz nonsense, I wasn't inclined to give the movie any slack at all. I was watching Carrie and Harrison trying to make the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear of dialogue and plot motivation (or lack thereof).

 

I have no idea what you're genuinely asking.

I don't think Han and Leia's marriage or relationship was reconciled in TFA. In this case "reconcile" would mean whatever their status was before they parted or separated, was rebuilt in some way. They might be friendly now, but that's not what they were before. They were more than that.

Reconciliation doesn't simply mean, as you stated, friendship or being friendly. As I mentioned it has other specific references.

Last year I reconciled with some friends who I hadn't seen in 10 years. We had a blow out, never hung out again, and drifted a part. Then out of the blue we started talking, chatted about old times, eventually met up, brought up the past, and then in time, started hanging out as friends again. Reconciliation in this case, meant friendship, because that's what was lost.

If this was a business partnership, and that partnership was lost, reconcile would be we're doing business again.

In marriage, it would mean rekindling of that romance or former relationship.

If Han hadn't died, perhaps it could have been reconciled, in time, if they continued down that road, after TFA. But honestly Leia doesn't really seem to give a damn about Han. They hug. Joke. But then she knowingly sends him to deal with the evil murder-prone son. She could have dealt with him herself, being force sensitive and trained as a Jedi, but nope. She sends the one person in her family who lacks that power. I don't think Leia wanted to reconcile anything with Han. She used him as a tool to help her get Kylo. Just like the story uses all the characters as tools, to help Kyo.

If there's any reconciliation wanted by Leia in TFA, its between her and her son Ben.

 

I appreciate your detailed thoughts on what reconciliation means to you. We see the Han/Leia scenes differently. I saw their reunion as the beginning of genuine reconciliation - not just friendliness, but rekindling their deeper connection. The way they spoke about Ben, their shared concern, and that lingering moment before Han left all pointed to something more meaningful than just being cordial. Look at the picture above. That's a deeper connection that just "being friendly".

I strongly disagree that Leia used Han as a tool. She sent him because she believed he could reach their son in a way she couldn't - as a father, not as a Force user. It was about emotional connection, not power. Han volunteered for this mission precisely because he and Leia had reconnected enough to share their mutual grief and hope.

Had Han survived, I believe they would have continued rebuilding what they lost. Their reconciliation was just beginning, which makes his death all the more tragic.

 

In the context of Han and Leia being *separated*, only absolute pedants (and those wanting to dismiss any criticism of bad films) would define ‘reconciled’ as being friendly and on speaking terms. In this context reconciled would mean Han and Leia’s issues resolved and being demonstrably back together. They most definitely are *not* reconciled at the end of TFA… as the film/story never outlines the nature of their separation or what a reconciliation would take. It’s just thinly drawn and badly written plot/characterisation, simply designed to reset them as being slightly adversarial (pre-ROTJ). It’s pathetic really.