Andor Andor Episode 2.12 (SERIES FINALE!!!) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

The sets, and on-location filming, is in its own category. Production Designer Luke Hull mentioned taking a lot of inspiration from real world places. Its a character itself.

Whereas the PT Republic and Coruscant was Art Deco infused, on Andor they pulled a lot of different 19th and 20th century architecture - Brutalist, Russian/Soviet, Art Nouveau. There's a lot more plazas and outdoor concrete environments than in the feeling of the PT too, where most of it takes place in doors or on lush balconies. They made it seem modern, but in an ancient way. As if the Republic went through these BIG styles centuries ago and hadn't really developed much more since. Then the Empire comes in with its own aesthetic and public work projects.

Earth Inspiration (Belgrade):



GFFA

 

Perfect. And Rogue One really is the finale of the entire series. It fits in perfectly. No retcons or “if you squint it sort of makes sense”, like a lot of what's gone on in SW before. Just meticulously planned out in every detail. Bravo.

Gilroy has to come back one day. He just has to.

 

^

"Shane! Come back, Shane!"

 

I gave this a 10/10.

What an ending. While it may not be the high octane finale that is usually is given, it isn't meant to be. It's meant to be a lead in to Rogue One, and it accomplished that remarkably well.

First, I'm glad Kleya survived. I was worried after the last episode. Secondly, I was really annoyed by Bail and the others. Was Luthen a great guy and totally moral? No, but he died for the intel Cassian gave them. He's not a nut like Saw. So that was irritating and disrespectful of them. Also, I'd be remiss I didn't say I was surprised to see Mon now look like the Mon of ANH, well not surprised really but it really placed you in the timeline where she was at.

Deedra obviously had a horrible fate. I think she'd been better off being killed but she did deserve this.

I suspected Bix was pregnant. Man, there were some times during this season I really worried for her. I thought she was going to die in some operation at various points. She had a rough time of it this season. I am glad she made it. I do wonder if we'll someday meet an older Bix in live-action. I wouldn't require a lot just to see how her and their son ended up.

I'll end this by saying this was a great season. Also, this show did a great of making people who were mere nameless footnotes in ANH to characters you cared about in what they encountered operationally and hoped for their survival (Kleya), to simply Cassian and Bix's relationship, or how the any of the characters would react in this environment. Also, to act as a prequel to a prequel and still make it great entertainment is a feat in itself. What an awesome show.

 

The only complaint I have about this episode is that they missed an opportunity for K-2SO to sing "Shot Through the Heert, and You're to Blame."

 

Only real complaint I have is the shaky cam. That's distracting and annoying.

 

When is there shaky cam?

 

Still on Kafrene Cassian looked shocked when Tivik told him about the Death Star. Or was it just the shock about that Tivik already knew about it?

No Idea? When Kleya before had killed several stormtroopers until she gave Rael the mercy kill to save their secrets? Kleya couldn't be so self-confident that she could wipe out every holocam trace of her existence on Coruscant after Rael's suicide attempt. She's good but she's not Alema Rar. From all what happened since Dedra entered the antique shop, it was quite clear Kleya became the next target and she knew that.

What do you think she typed into her morse code device? Before Cassian and Ruescott entered the apartment, she appeared quite nervous when trying to connect with Yavin several times. The three of them could have discussed all the news within the spacecraft instead of hanging around in an apartment. At least for me as an active rebellion supporter and even maker constantly under the threat of being ratted out it'd be common sense to leave Coruscant ASAP when my rebel mates are coming with a space craft.

Mon Mothma's evacuation to me seemed to proceed much faster. As soon as she spoke out the name Palpatine before the senate, everything moved on very quickly. Any delay there was only due to the fact that three different groups were trying to get on Mon and she and Cassian had to slip through.

 

At this point, Cassian doesn't know anything about the Death Star specifically, just about a weapon the Empire is building. He is surprised by the planet-destroying scale of the weapon.

 

There was zero reason for her to assume the secret hideout had been compromised. And it wouldn't have been, if not for a very lucky break for the Empire. No amount of footage of her would have changed anything about it.

She didn't try to connect with Yavin, nor did she do try to communicate to get out. She tried to get someone to take over the message. And for that, she used an old device that only a handful of people were aware about. Something the Empire couldn't catch onto for years, and wouldn't have been able to find out about now, if they hadn't sat next to one of the comms as it got a message. And even then the Empire only could make it work, because Dedra told Heert about these old devices and they specifically looked at the comms again right at that very moment.

The rest is quite obvious. She is heavily distraught after Luthen has died, and isn't her usual self. She doesn't want to leave, she has no place she thinks she can go (caused in part due to her current state of mind) so it takes some convincing from Andor to make her leave.

And did everything really go quickly with Mon Mothma?
They took her to the very same hideout, and let her stay there, even when other people were around. She is also a far more famous figure, far easier for someone to spot, so there is a higher risk. The talks they are having during that operation aren't any shorter than the one with Kleya, and Mon Mothma stayed around afterwards while Andor left, meaning she was far longer in that spot than Kleya was.

 

No, he seems aware of the weapon. And is only shocked when Tivik responds to his question “what kind of weapon?” with “planet-killer.” So he’s shocked to learn that the weapon can destroy entire planets. Which makes sense, as he doesn’t have that info in Andor.

I’m afraid you’re generating inconsistencies that factually don’t exist.

I saw it as her losing her **** because Luthen’s gone and she’s alone again after so much time, and because she needs to ensure he doesn’t die in vain. She HAS to get this info off-planet. Also, I don’t know if you have any experience with orphans, but boy did her behavior ring true to me.

And she went to the safe house for a reason. Because for whatever reason, they’ve managed to keep it hidden for years. This is a city the size of an entire planet. It’s like she escaped from Washington, DC to a small city in Vietnam. She knows she’s likely being hunted, but there’s no reason for her to believe they’re that close to finding her.

I really see no issue with how this played out. It all makes perfect sense.

 

I agree that there should have been a bit of urgency, though in fairness they probably thought they had more time. On the other hand, it made absolutely no sense for Kleya to oppose going away with Cassian. That was just an awkward dialogue.

 

Her life just turned upside down, as she had to kill her own father-figure for his own good, and she is under a lot of stress due to the general situation and the stakes of her being the only one with the knowledge about the weapon. She isn't thinking rationally at that moment. Her completely erratic behaviour towards Cassian makes this very obvious, as it is not remotely close to her usual self. It is perfectly normal for her to act that way, especially with Luthen having burned pretty much all the bridges to the rebels.

If this was her behaviour at the beginning of episode 10, then yes, that would have been odd. But after all that just happened, her behaviour is very much fitting to the situation at hand. Cassian, on the other hand, can react rationally, because he isn't emotionally distraught at this moment, and also doesn't carry the important message.

 

Her and Luthen decided to go down hitting the Empire on Coruscant. Once she passed the super weapon info to Cassian, she clearly intends to stay and commit some final suicide mission against them. She doesn't want to go to what she thinks is a purgatory on Yavin. She doesn't have the same perspective of Yavin as we do. She literally has an overly jaundiced view of it, and doesn't want to go there to rot. She's a radical revolutionary and wants to end her days that way, not on house arrest in a jungle. It makes perfect sense. I understand it's a bit frustrating, but for her character, her perspective, her knowledge, it simply makes sense. Even thoough for the audience, it doesn't.

Kleya's not watching the show, and she hasn't seen the OT either. Yavin is a very different thing to her than it is to us.

 

She didn't need to watch the show to understand that leaving Coruscant was the best strategy moving forward, she just needed to use her brain. Even without going to Yavin, leaving Coruscant was still the obvious thing to do. Her arguments against it were utter nonsense, and kind of out-of-character as well, since Kleya had always been shown as a cold and pragmatic calculator. Now you are going to say "but she just lost Luthen!" Yet the trauma did not seem to stop her when she went on her solitary mission, doing every move perfectly and cold-blooded.

The writers inserted that discussion with Cassian because it felt right from a dramatic point of view, but the in-universe logic of it was dubious to say the least.

 

Well as is often the case with you, it’s been clearly explained, so feel free to continue believing what you wish if it makes you happy. The rest of us can enjoy a totally understandable and enjoyable sequence in the show.

 

I think this won't be a problem when People watch the saga chronologically without having seen what went beforehand....

 

You know...trauma doesn't just turn on.

Has she? Even when in the art gallery, in the prior episode, where she was trying to remove the tracking device with all the Imperials around, she was cool, and collected, but also started showing signs of aggression and stress as things got more tense.

When she was in mission mode in the hospital, she got the job done. Its only afterwards, where she's alone, all alone without her father figure, where the loss starts to hit home, and she's got this vital intel that needs to be shared. All while the Empire knows exactly who she is. This is now a different scenario that she's never quite faced before.

But no. She isn't a calculator. She isn't a droid. She is human. Even the best tactical spies, rebels, whatnot, are still human. And as human, you can make mistakes. You can feel pressure building up. Do things great one day, and poorly another time. And honestly, that's refreshing too.

 

Again, Kleya just lost her father, mentor, partner in every single thing she's done since she was a child. AND the information that Luthen and she stayed on Coruscant for, that he died for, has been passed on. So she's no longer just a cold and pragmatic calculator. Because her pragmatism and her calculations have delivered up the information she needed to deliver up. Her main purpose in life is over. And so going to live in what she thinks of as a purgatory makes little sense to her. She'd rather die on Coruscant with Luthen. And indeed I think she considered dying out in the jungle on Yavin, but Val stopped her, showed her friendship (where there was little friendship before), and gave her a new lease. And then she sees the daily rebel activity on Yavin, and smiles. Honestly, I think it was perfectly done. She's not a static, cold, calculating charaacter. She develops. She got her revenge on the Empire. And then she felt free to make a more emotional decision in honor of Luthen. But Yavin shows her there's still more to do.

If she was a droid, I'd better understand the criticism. But tis season gave us her backstory in order to explain her actions in this final arc. And it all zips together without a seam.

 

PT criticism: These people all act so cold, and robotic.
Andor criticism: Why aren't these people more cold and robotic?!?!

 

I don't know if you mean me or @3sm1r with that your sneering, but this is becoming personal now and I ask you to stop that. I just point at some things seeming odd to me and apparently some people just can't tolerate any critics on their beloved Andor series as if this would be a heineous sin. You don't know me and I can't remember either what is so often the case with me or even when our paths ever crossed here.So please - Peace out.

A purgatory you say ... So when you are working to support the rebellion on Yavin, you don't want to join ranks with 'em one day? I already wondered why it took so long for Vel to show up in Kleya's hut to talk with her from woman to woman. And why Kleya should want to die in her young age? She had a lot of contacts back then in the antique gallery shop so it's not that she's kind of totally fixated on Luthen when it comes to socialize with others. When I know that there are rebels out there who owe me something I would at least have the hope that they get me out and that I can lead a better life now away from the center of the suppression.

And anyway: I never was a fan of that purpose of life idea. That works in a film where every character serves a certain purpose or goal - being a minor or bigger plot device. But I as a living person in-universe wouldn't confine my life to a single purpose. That is what Cassian told Bix before she left him. The healer in return told Cassian about his mission (messenger), but I think you can fulfill your mission and still have an extra life beyond - or another mission if you like to.

 

OK, but she needed some time and some convincing to move on to the next stage of her life. People want characters to make life-shattering decisions in minutes. But characters resist. The tyranny of the narrative must be resisted by its characters. Or you end up with plot drowning people.

 

@Bor Mullet
you have a point that she needed some time to get adjusted to the new situation. Maybe it is also the: How will the Rebels deal with me, when I'm not under the big umbrella of Rael Luthen anymore?

Then you wrote:

So you think she thought the rebels on Yavin weren't that active? Or is it something else with the jaundiced view?

 

It seemed Kleya was so used to her life with Luthen and that aspect of the rebellion that she hadn't thought of other aspects much so Yavin was really foreign. Add in that you have people who are nothing but former senators who'd rather bash Luthen than respect all his work and you create an environment where she feels like an outsider.