Andor Andor Season 2 Discussion (Spoliers Allowed)

Andor worked because Tony Gilroy was able to make a show about one of his obsessions. In order to get him back, they need to pitch him on something else he's obsessed with. Here's how I'd do it:

"A [space] law firm brings in its 'fixer' to remedy the situation after a [space] lawyer has a breakdown while representing a [space] chemical company that he knows is guilty in a multibillion-[credit] class action suit."

Makal Kleidon: A Star Wars Story

 

Tony Gilroy Has an Excellent Reason Why Jyn Erso Didn’t Pop Up in ‘Andor’

Of course this is a good explanation. I mean yeah, I would've liked to see even a glimpse cameo of her at some point (or at least Galen name-dropping her), but of course this was overwhelmingly supposed to be Cassian's story. What I found interesting after re-watching R1 over the weekend was that among the bonus features, Cassian's was rather short; I think it was among the shortest ones.

 

Andor was the best and most consistently high quality Star Wars story that has been put out, IMO and I include all of George’s films in that comparison too.

It felt real, it felt compelling, it didn’t deviate too far from its core tone but still had its lighthearted moments.

It’s going to feel jarring going back to more standard Star Wars fare like Ahsoka season 2 after this.


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If I were DLF the only thing I'd pitch Tony Gilroy is a dump truck full of money and say "Make another Star Wars, please. Any kind of Star Wars you want."

 

And during the Auschles in Austria, never mind the Reichstag fire in Germany proper.

But since the Empire is also a stand-in for "America or the entire West gone fascist," it could be a stand-in for the various CIA coups as well as the Project Mockingbird media and the way stories were given to, say, the New York Times or WaPo during the Cold War and other establishment media, planted there by the CIA, at least until the fabled Church Committee of the 1970s. It was a big case when Project Mockingbird was discovered. Lucas thought of the Emperor as being Nixon or Ford or even Reagan.

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I really think Disney should make Rogue One Special Edition a thing. It’s not sacred enough to warrant backlash like the original trilogy special editions, we know there’s tons of deleted and butchered scenes and shots from trailers not in final movie, fix the deepfake CGI, and they can add a post credits epilogue with Bix and their kid.

 

The main problem with the Special Editions of the original movies was that they replaced the original movies. An alternate cut of Rogue One that existed alongside the original film rather than supplanting it would be very interesting.

 

An interesting thing is who the "director" in a "director's cut" would be - I imagine the version we have is pretty close to what Tony Gilroy would have wanted, given what he had to work with, but a Gareth Edwards cut could look pretty different. Or maybe it'd be a LotR-style extended edition where basically any usable extra scenes get shoved in regardless of pacing or tonal coherence (oops now I'm letting my disdain for the LotR extended editions show, wrong forum)

 

My take was that the GE versions was simply unworkable as is. TG mentions coming in with no knowledge of SW or anything, and that distance allowed him to be unemotionally invested and could fix it like a surgeon would. Then there were reshoots, which GE was a part of, and mentioned that Vader was the final thing they shot. TG mentions that it was him, I believe, that grounded the entire story around the notion of sacrifice and reworked the final act considerably.

Sacrifice is a major story theme and if that was brought in late, by him, I wouldn't know what the story was without it. Just a series of scenes building towards the climax, and handing off the stolen plans to Leia? And without Vader chasing them that 'chase/handoff' probably felt extremely unsatisfying.

I'm guessing that while scenes themselves may have worked in the GE version, it didn't quite add up to a whole. Maybe the flow and timing were all off. Maybe it lacked a clear central thesis. Maybe the final act didn't quite work either, whether emotionally or just mechanically.

So I don't think a GE cut would ever get released.

 

Raddus: I say we fight for Kleya!
Kleya: I'm not dead yet.
Raddus: But you're still recovering from a head injury sustained after the stun charge at Luthen's safe house, so you shouldn't be fighting right now. I say we fight in your stead!
Kleya: I say we fight for Luthen.
Kino Loy: Who's Luthen?
Mon Mothma: He was a cunning spymaster and dealer of antiquities. And he was a good friend.
Kino Loy: Oh.
Toryn Farr: We're receiving a message from Coruscant! Our mole at the ISB, Lio Partagaz, rushed into the hospital room just after Kleya left, and hooked Luthen back up to life support, and he's going to live! Uncle Harlo is bringing him to Yavin as we speak. This message is being sent by our other mole, Lagret, who was keeping tabs on Partagaz.... rest in peace.
Draven: Any word from agent Meero about what the prisoners are assembling now?
Toryn: Not yet, sir.
Bren Derlin: It's a little known fact that Cassian Andor helped build the Death Star, and since it was used in the attack on Jedha, then I think it's safe to say the prisoners have probably moved on to making other things by now.

 

Will all due respect to Gilroy I can't help but feel that there must be at least one other person working in Hollywood that would be capable of creating a Star Wars show as good as Andor if the powers that be let them do it. Unfortunately I think a lot of the people in the biz that could create such a thing probably don't want to mess around with Star Wars. Also, I think other show creators aren't going to get the same leeway that Gilroy received.

 

To quote kid Anakin: "I just can't do it."

 

Yes, my understanding is that Gilroy got his leeway because he is friends with Kennedy. He did deserve it though.

 

I finally watched Andor Season 2. Yeah, I get the hype now—it's pretty damn brilliant.

Look, I'll be honest—it started painfully slow for me. Could've easily skipped to Episode 4 or 5 without missing much. Season 1 grabbed me faster.

But those final episodes? 9-12 are absolute top-tier Star Wars. That's what I wanted from the beginning. And when K2 showed up, the show finally found some joy. Don't get me wrong—tense, gripping, all that—but it wasn't exactly "fun" until then.

Luthen and Kleya could have been their own show entirely. That dynamic was just electric.

While I definitely think there's space and even need for differently toned Star Wars content I don't agree with those calling for Gilroy to do ALL Star Wars. Though I respect it, I wouldn't want this specific tone/pace/focus to become THE default for everything Star Wars going forward. On a related note....It was fascinating watching Rebels after Episode 9—seeing how this bleak Mon Mothma storyline eventually blossoms into full-blown classic Star Wars space opera adventure.

All that said, I'm eternally grateful for Andor and the brilliant variety it brings to the Star Wars sandbox. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I just wish the whole series had that Rogue One energy throughout instead of saving it all for the end.

 

I think the big lesson of Andor that can be applied to other shows is to prioritize character first. Not every episode needs to be heavily propelled by plot or obligatory action sequences. That also means more production resources can go into the big set pieces when they really matter.

 

I also felt like for the first time episodes felt like a full episodic story. There was a beginning, middle, and end to each one. It didn't feel like they were just randomly cutting away because they needed a certain amount of episodes.

This has been one of my biggest complaints of the series. That they feel like giant moves just randomly cut into episodes. Andor feels like episodes that all together makes something grander.

 

Most of the other series also haven't put the same effort into secondary storylines to the same extent that Andor does. This series' greatest strength is how much focus it puts on the ensemble as a whole, and that comes back to how well it develops its supporting characters, especially Luthen, Mon, Syril and Dedra. They all feel like the leads of their own stories.

 

To the point where the title Andor almost doesn't quite fit the show. It was always much more of ensemble than that. No?

 

I just rewatched Andor Season 1, and because of S2 it has become something even more amazing that it was alone. I'm going to have to mull it over further, but just a couple of examples. Luthen's diatribe to Lonnie in the elevator about everything's given up. On how he would be perceived as someone who did nothing but the extreme wrong action.

After watching the complete disdain, he is held in by the Rebel Councils it takes on a prophetic saddening element that make it even more powerful than it was before S2.
Then there is the way Marva's amazing speech that everyone has been asleep, that the Empire is evil and they need to wake up. It now feels like a mirror to Mon Mothma's speech to the Senate. Making both seasons of Andor feel like one powerful story of the call to rise up.

 

I greatly dislike the trend to make every show named after the principle character. It’s just aping the marvel movies but without the reason that those had being based on comic titles

 

Yep. I'll go further: I loathe the lack of the words Star Wars in some of the titles. IMO, every Star Wars iteration (TV or FILM) should be called Star Wars....No more "A Star Wars Story." Awkward.

It should be:

Star Wars: Title of what it is

Star Wars: Rogue One
Star Wars: Kenobi
Star Wars: Ahsoka
Star Wars: Skeleton Crew (see how nice that is?)
I don't even dislike Star Wars: Solo


Furthermore, the films (Solo and Rogue One and all going forward) should have the Title card, Star Wars logo going backward, and a scroll. Hell, Solo and Rogue one are BEGGING for scrolling story points. IMO it's a missed opportunity when you have such iconic branding right there.

Rant continued: I don't mind this part with the helmets/masks....
..

I hate the kinda generic music and sideways logo. Use a proper Star Wars theme and the most iconic version of the logo.

Rant over. Phew

 

They definitely tried to go the marvel route but always felt strange to me, it's quite a different vibe. Jedi are not superheroes. It is quiet funny to think Andor s2 /10 and bobs Mando episodes are some of my fave episodes and they're not in it...

 

Do we think the Empire interrogated Leida and Perrin after Mon’s defection?

I think they probably did.

I wish the show had touched on Mon’s consideration of her daughter’s safety, before she gave her speech and fled Coruscant.

Correct me if i missed it, but I don’t recall it at all.

 

I think they would've been questioned, but Davo Sculdun's wealth and influence would protect them from the worst of it. Perrin also seemed to have pro-Empire connections in Season 1 that might help him a little bit. At least for now - but once the Galactic Civil War gets going in earnest, I suspect all bets are off.