ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Sforza The Kylo Ren Portishead groopies are ofc the very centre of the inner dark-disciples circle
But we need some men to...redheads are welcome too You just need to be "dark" enough

Damn...I'm too tired for joking...see you all tomorrow...happy shipping...and do try not to write 20 pages over night...it takes me all morning to read that

 

Flynn knows the look too.



They give freaking LIONS the look.

 

You do realize that you are responding to me, right? I gave the manipulation example to MotherNature's SilverSeed as an example of potential competing-but-equally-grounded-in-dialogue interpretations of Kylo Ren's lines. *I* don't think that he was actually manipulating Rey (because of the rest of the movie's evidence that he tells Rey the truth).

I think it is fascinating that they have juxtaposed Kylo Ren and Finn the way they have. Kylo Ren is a bad guy (for now, anyway) who tells the heroine the truth, over and over, and exposes himself and his weaknesses. Finn is a good guy (at least as presented by the film, and I expect him to remain a good guy in future installments), but he lies to Rey and others more than once (to conceal himself and who he really is from her).

His truth-telling is a major clue that Kylo is destined to be redeemed and is a potential match for Rey. In romance novels (such as The Duke's Wager, which I mentioned earlier) where there is a dark and dangerous (even villainous) lead male, that character's truthfulness is often the key to whether they will end up the hero of the story. When that dark/ambiguous hero is juxtaposed with another potential love interest, even one who is on the surface "more moral," who lies or is hypocritical, it becomes even more clear.

The liar does not end up with the heroine nor does he find himself on the path to redemption, because part of the journey of the characters is that the hero must be honest to himself, to know himself, otherwise he cannot redeem himself.

 

Penny Crayon and Sangha Ren... make that three....I thought I was a weirdo for being able to see more in the 2D version of the movie....things that I never noticed in the 3D version....I put it down to being able to focus on small details while viewing the movie for a second time as I already knew the story....

 

I thought I was replying to two posters through the backwards string. Sorry, I didn't realize you didn't reply directly to them, therefore I was only replying to you. I meant to respond to the person you were responding to. I know you're with me on this one though, don't worry.

I don't agree that the two interpretations are equally grounded in the narrative at all. One acknowledges the character in his characterization, the other doesn't. It's just a wild guess that totally betrays all the hard work put into painting Kylo as a truthful antagonist, an inaccurate interpretation that is in no way founded on evidence. That doesn't mean my interpretation will ultimately be the right one, but the analyses are in no way equal.

I love the juxtaposition between Finn and Ren. It's fascinating, and it's almost strange that they don't have a thread devoted to them because their interactions were far more interesting than Rey and Finn's in my opinion. I can't wait to see how they interact in the future.

 

What I found interesting in those concept arts is that the book begins with art of Kylo and Rey together on the same page and the book ends with art of both of them as well(Geminiwankenobi I think you posted those I,mates with Kylo being almost machine and Rey/Kira with a symbol on her head).
It's also interesting that in the concept art Kylo is there when Hux gives his Nazi speech.I'm interested though when exactly did JJ became convinced AD had to play Kylo?Because right up until November 2013 they were trying to create the Jedi Killer as the main villain while finding difficulties in doing so.
Btw,for people who take Rey's force vision as proof that she's a Skywalker it says here that original,y it was supposed to be a flashback:
In the post-screening Q&A, co-producer Michelle Rejwan explained that the sequence they refer to as the “Force-back” — an abstract montage that hits Rey after she touches Luke Skywalker’s lightsaber for the first time — was initially conceived as a more standard flashback as told by Maz Kanata (Lupita Nyong’o) as she recounts both the history of the previous movies, and what had happened after the events of Return of the Jedi. “We realized it was going to be more powerful if the characters could experience it themselves, rather than just hear the story,” she said. “So it became an experiential sequence with Rey in the center of it.”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/star-wars-the-force-awakens-behind-the-scenes-secrets#.pym1dLYpL

 

I can almost picture the scene I bolded!
But yeah, for Rey to be Luke's daughter, Luke needs to be really, really, really thick, and that comes from people who claim to love Luke. I don't get it.

You should post this on the parentage thread, although of course it makes no difference.
The production redid the lightsaber giving scene, this time with very clearly displeased, non fatherly Luke, and it didn't make a difference.

Oh, well.

 

Of course JJ would never say at the time of Movie 1 of 3 that his "villain's evolution" is from . . . villain to hero. But that doesn't mean that that won't be the trajectory of this particular villain.

I actually posted this very theory on one of the forums a few days ago (maybe the Finn Rey Bond thread). I don't think anyone followed up on it. I kind of like the idea.

 

I'm so looking forward to this scene:

 

Darth Imbecillis

 

Also he was talking in the present-tense specifically about his movie, not the overall future of the Saga. He wouldn't be allowed to discuss Rian or Trevorrow's films like that. No way. He has also expressed that sentiment in numerous interviews, stating that his part in the story is over. And it's not like he wasn't telling the truth. That's exactly what he showed is in The Force Awakens, the evolution of a villain. People who wanted to believe he would be nothing more than the "main antagonist" automatically latched onto the interview because they desperately needed to see Abrams saying "He's a villain. That's it. Point finale. Might as well not even watch the next two movies because I just gave away everything."

The point is a bias will make you read/see what you want to see, not what's actually there. I walked into the theatre unspoiled with no expectations, no bias and no knowledge about the story or any of the characters. I walked out feeling that Finn and Rey were going nowhere romantically because their plots would diverge too much, that Kylo was in some way fixated on Rey, that Finn would lead a Stormtrooper rebellion and that the story would ultimately focus on Kylo Ren's redemption.

 

I was thinking about Luke's face when he meets Rey, and how he looks displeased. Very displeased. No hint of hope.

One theory I have (which might not be true, it's just a theory) is about Rey, the lightsaber and the force bond. Perhaps the lightsaber is closely related to Kylo, and Rey having it means a close connection with Kylo, or else Rey and Kylo do have a force bond (I'm not 100% sold on that theory, but it's possible), or it's just a different type of connection between Rey and Kylo.

So, basically Luke sees Rey and realizes she has just blown his cover. Due to Rey and Kylo's connection, Kylo is likely to find out where they are.

I think that would explain Luke's expression. I mean, he was always a nice kid. Even with personal tragedies, why would he look so angry at a girl coming for help? Maybe he's not angry, but thinking "oh, no, we're doomed".

 

Had to share this since you referenced Simba! http://kylosolotrash.tumblr.com/post/141326238480/doodlingthingies-i-have-no-excuses

 

This is the look of a mEn whose blood has rushed down from their brain into their lower extremities. Sacral Chakra's watch those sacral chakra's and that is exactly where Ren takes out Finn.

 

I can see them using most of VIII (in terms of the Reylo dynamic) to introduce Rey to more of Ben's story through the hypothetical force bond, while she learns more about her own history at the same time. Meanwhile, perhaps the audience will learn a few details about Kylo that Rey doesn't even know (saving Leia, for example?).

A few days ago I proposed that the climactic encounter between Kylo Ren and Rey (once her feelings are thoroughly confused) be a battle between them which is interrupted by an even bigger threat. The two can team up to defeat the new threat, and the film can close with the two of them suddenly uncertain about which side they are on now. Are they still enemies? Or have they become allies?

IX can then answer the question.

 

Another face gawking scene of love was in Breakfast Club, when Allison gets a makeover

 

Has anyone posted this intense meta here yet? http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/141360308671/bride-of-the-monstrous-meeting-the-other-in-the tbh, I only could really skim it. It is heavy on the research and literary history. If you skip to the end, there is a great summary of Kylo's and Rey's characters, their interactions so far, and their probable future interactions.

 

As I was trying to say, I agree with you that that interpretation is not equally well grounded if you take the text as a whole. I *do* think that they are equal possibilities if you take the three lines you quoted (dark side . . . dark side . . . the force) in isolation. It was an example of how to readings of the same text (here, those three lines only) can both be grounded in textual analysis, but still come to different conclusions.

Of course, it was only a sample of how textual analysis of word choice is not specious. Of how repetition works. It is better practice to read lines in conjunction with the whole work, as you do when you go that one further step: that Kylo is neither lying nor manipulating Rey, because for him to do that would contradict other evidence of his character presented in the movie.

If there were a thread devoted to Finn and Ren, it would be never-ending warfare that would drive everyone away, unfortunately.

 

This was one of my biggest problems with TFA, actually. Rey's motivation is so muddled throughout the film. Her only clear objective is to stay on Jakku, or to get back to Jakku. She repeats her desire to go back when she declines Han's job offer... but then a few minutes later she's keen on helping BB-8 get back to the Resistance. But then she's running away again. Most of the time she's just reacting to what happens around her. When she finally grabs the lightsaber and seems to embrace her Jedi destiny, her motivation is murky once again. The moment is powerful and looks and sounds heroic, but she isn't igniting the saber to protect her friend or to actively choose to fight the good fight. She ignites the saber to attack Ren in revenge for what he did.

"The patina but not the substance of a Skywalker" is a good way to put it. Perhaps one might also say, "the heart but not (yet) the personality of a hero" - largely because until we know what she really wants, we can't say what her personality truly is.

Even in the end of TFA, most viewers expect she's asking Luke to train her as a Jedi, but - correct me if I'm wrong - isn't she actually there to ask Luke to come back to help Leia?

Ren voiced something we already know: she needs a teacher. We still haven't been shown clearly what she herself wants.

 

Yes, same face! Lips parted, eyes relaxed.

I remember a few (actually quite a hundred) pages ago we were arguing against someone who said Kylo did not look surprised, because his eyes were open but relaxed. But the thing is, the expression is not surprise. It's this expression above. We might call it dazzled, but it's more like "love dazzled" or something of the sort.

Couple that with the camera movement, closing in on Kylo. It's been used over and over and over in cinema for that moment when the guy (or the girl) finally "sees" their romantic partner.

I'll add another one. I actually like Terminator 3. There's a future couple in it. They don't even kiss. But there's a moment that sells it. He's looking at her, stunned, after she picks up a gun and shoots a flying machine.



Again: parted, lips, open eyes with slightly relaxed eyebrows. The cartoons sometimes have raised eyebrows, but in the movies, with real actors, the eyebrows are more relaxed. Exactly like Kylo when he sees Rey with the lightsaber!

 

Another one. I'm obsessed with looking for these now.

Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber when he meets Mary for the first time



It's in Ariels face



It's even in the Simpsons, when Homer becomes infatuated with his Co worker Mindy, he sees her, mouth open eyes wide and this is what he imagines instantly

 

Yeah, her personality or motivations were not very clear. Sometimes I think the writers were so in love with Kylo that everyone else was shoved in to acomodate his story line. Finn is not that developed either. But yeah, Rey, as the protagonist, should have more fibre. Usually protagonists want something and act to make that true.

So Rey likes the Resistance? Wow, great, then why don't they make her be really excited and ask Finn if perhaps she can join them?
So Rey wants her family most of all? Fine, have her do something. Ask people, mark well the place where she lives, tell everyone that she is there. I don't know, do something.

In TFA, her character goes with the motion. I find it annoying really, especially when everyone is praising a good female protagonist. I don't know, I see no substance! Other than that, why do female heroines have to be surrounded by males. If it wasn't for Leia, the movie would not pass the Bechdel test. And it passes, I don't know, because of one sentence Leia says to her. There are no other interaction between women.

 

Fantastic meta. Thank you for posting a link.

 

Just realised that Rey is new Disney princess. Or she will marry the prince or she's already a princess, there is no third option. Anyway, she will be with Ben in both cases.

 

How can she be a princess now? I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand. Unless you believe in the Rey Prana theory.