Rogue One Rogue One Reviews/Reactions thread

Yes, Henry's delivery was perfect there. Lovely bastard move from Tarkin. And I love how Medelsohn is literally almost spitting in his anger.

 

Complaining about what's fair? Maybe that's the whole point behind Krennic's character? He's like a plagiarist who gets called out and is upset that there's real consequences. Unlike Tarkin or Vader he can't stand on his own (no pun intended). He constantly needs Galen as his gravy train, he goes to Darth Vader for help (seriously, think about that for a minute). He's so desperate for approval. He's supposed to be a villain that you, maybe, kind of feel pity for...in a weird absurd way.

 

Yeah - he's a an under-appreciated careerist, desperate to have his greatness accepted. I think he's a fine character, similar to how Kylo Ren was - complex. Some seem to want to nothing but badass power fantasies. I don't think they're that interesting (all the time).

 

Also consider that TFA is part 1 of a trilogy whereas RO is a stand alone. The ST has time to reveal crucial information about the past.

 

I've seen it 6 times already, but since I am a new member here, decided to post my review anyway:

The good things:

- Krennic. I wished he had more screen time. He was simply awesome and a very evil Imperial villain (and highly arrogant). Mendelsohn did a great job. I felt very bad for him in the end. (P.S Catalyst gave a great character development for him, Galen and their relationship).

- The last act. My god, the battle on Scarif was simply amazing! I was on the edge of my seat and while the first half of the film felt a bit slow, that final battle made it for me. Superb!

- CGI. Seeing modern-looking Death Star, planets, ships and Star Destroyers was simply amazing. While Tarkin's CGI had me a bit distracted at times, it was still impressive how they managed to make him look exactly like Peter Cushing. Also, the last shot of the fim! Lastly, the obliteration of Jedha and the Scarif space battle grant the movie a VFX Oscar nomination, imo.

- Vader. Simply my most favorite thing in the movie. The moment they showed him in the Bacta tank and then when he appeared in front of Krennic, wow. It was amazing. My childhood favorite villain back on the big screen. I am very glad they brought JEJ in this. Vader simply doesn't sound like himself without that voice (the new Battlefront for reference). And his last scene, slaughtering those Rebels. My jaw dropped during that scene.

- Giachinno's score, was good (although it didn't feel "Star Wars"-y enough). Krennic's theme ("He's here for us"), "Your father would be proud" and "Hope" were all very good.

Just a couple of negatives:

- No opening crawl. While I knew the film wouldn't have an opening crawl, it still felt weird. The movie felt weird jumping straight into space right after the "A long time ago...." line

- Slow first half of the film. It felt a bit disjointed and the introduction of the characters was basically fast jumps between scenes/planets in a "Suicide Squad" style (and in a bad way).

Overall, I give it 10/10. The first spin-off SW film is a WIN! The negatives are simply compensated for the awesome positives.

 

If the whole point is passive complaint with no real important impact on the plot than that's a waste of an antagonist. Kylo whines and complains but he also acts, influences events and irrevocably alters the lives of the heroes.

For my part, I specifically acknowledged that a flawed or under-construction villain can work, like Kylo does. Krennic doesn't work because if you remove him after the opening scene the plot would proceed much the same. He's not needed on the death star. His scenes with Vader are aimless. His scene with Galen goes nowhere. He wasn't needed at Scarif and added nothing to the battle. Even his scene with Jyn seemed pointless. Cassian swoops in and stops anything interesting from happening.

 

Oh, for sure, I wasn't saying you wanted the power fantasy thing. I agree that his scene with Vader feels a bit tacked on, though it does neatly hint at why some senators are not so quick to believe Jyn. I also agree that his final scene could have been stronger. I do think he's an interesting bad guy though and his villainy in act 3 is not unusual for most less physical villains.

 

I've seen it a few times and I like it. But more interesting to me was my dad's appraisal (someone who became a fan after seeing the original in 1977). He said he liked it more the The Force Awakens, and said it had the same impact as seeing the original. I like that it was a very original film, yet at the same time felt appropriately linked to A New Hope. I think that appealed to a lot of fans, and didn't come across as straightforward as The Force Awakens did.

 

This is interesting to me because the people I know who most appreciated Rogue One are those with little to no knowledge of Star Wars. For them, the espionage, the splits in Alliances, the Imperial threat, the mystery, and the power of the Death Star, hanging like a Sword of Damocles over everything, was all very thrilling because they were essentially learning about it as the film progressed, and had no sense of this being a story made of "padding." It's hard to see this as SW super fans, but Rogue One is a highly self-contained film.

Vader, for example, is no more tacked on than the Emperor was in ESB. The shadowy villain behind the curtain. The Death Star's menace was not reliant on knowledge of it from the OT. Instead, the film shows us its devastating power on Jedha. The father-daughter emotional core of the film doesn't depend on other films. The self-sacrifice of the RO crew is its own story. If you watch RO while pretending you know nothing about SW, I think you'll see what I mean. All the info you need to understand the story and appreciate its thematic resonance are in the film.

Personally, I think RO affirms my belief that standalone films can be enormously creative even if they're covering very familiar settings and time periods. The narrative discipline, for example, that the DS plans quest gives this film is one of its greatest assets. Allows the film to have a firm central core while exploring interesting elements around that.

At this stage, I am at a high point of faith in the new Star Wars cinematic universe.

 

I can respect that viewpoint, though it didn't play that way to me. Since we're sharing anecdotes, my thoroughly casual SW fan family told me "didn't we cover most of this in the original?" after the film. And that was before I shared my thoughts on the topic.

However, regardless of how it plays to the GA, the conceit of making the DS's flaw from ANH a deliberate betrayal is intentionally trying to fill in a "plot hole" of another film. That's when Rogue One feels less like its own story about Jyn and Co and more about justifying itself to the saga.

Vader needn't be tacked on, but I have to think there were better uses for him than the scene with Krennic at his bachelor pad of evil. Prior to seeing the film I thought the enforcer we saw in ANH might play a role in trying to stop the Rogue One team in a more woven-in participation. (Even though I dislike Tarkin replacing Krennic as the villain, Tarkin's scenes and involvement made sense scene to scene). But unfortunately Vader's major scene is divorced from the main action, a climax after the climax of the film. All the heroes we care about are out of the way, now let's get to the good stuff. Vader has to have his moment in the spotlight where we can cheer him on to slay nameless saber fodder.

Maybe this is all Greek to anyone who liked Vader's final scene. It's Vader! Right? That can't be bad. And I tried. I genuinely really tried to like this part. But Rogue One was about Jyn et al, with the DS plans a means to tell their story (at least, I thought that was the purpose). The ending after their ending feels like pure indulgence over narrative purpose.

 

I see Krennic as rather different to Kylo personally, my issue with the latter was that we don't really get a reason for his turn to the darkside or his killing of Han, the latter especially is something so beyond expected actions that I think it needs explination. Krennic being a politicking careerist on the other hand though is I think an easy sell and he doesn't really do anything unexpected plus of course isn't nearly so involved in the film dramatically.

Watching it again I does confirm my view that I think a lot of talk of the "first half" moving too quickly is exaggerated. What I do think is that after the opening scene you do have a segment that moves a bit too quickly, the Bodhi/Saw and Cassian stuff isn't too bad I spose but the Jyn segments between feel like they should be quite a bit longer with more time with her in prison and showing her traveling to Yavin IV setting up her character a bit more. When Jyn actually reaches Yavin though I feel these problems largely go away and the characters/settings get much more room to breath. Indeed I personally think the section between(and including) Jyn on Yavin both times is the strongest part of the film, Scarif is definitely fun but I think Edwards biggest strength is the slower more atmospheric stuff plus the choice to fight in the first place represents the biggest dramatic climax of the film.

Talking about arcs outside of Jyn/Cassian as well I do think the supporting characters have them, Chirrut/Blaze for example is the story of the latters lost faith that he regains by the end and whilst Bodhi does want to defect from the start I think Bor Gullet clearly knocks his desire too plus the degree of his willingness to stand up to the Empire clearly increases from delivering a message to fighting to the death. Granted these aren't massive arcs but you are talking supporting characters plus I think that generally the typical youtubers view of "arc" is flawed, there expectation just seems to have characters do a 180 regardless of whether theres any setup for it.

 

Vader's final action was one of my least favourite things in the movie - I can see why some feels that's "fan service" but then I guess a shed load of fans and general audiences loved that bit so who am I to complain. I would be interested to know how Vader featured at earlier stages in the story. I think the final attack was added pretty late. For me, it feels a little our of step with the Vader we see in the OT, but then maybe that's just because we never got to see him fight like that. But I like Gig's point about the overall tapestry being woven around these appearances. Perhaps, in R1 alone, Vader feels a little tacked on, but over the sweep of the saga, I see it as no different from a TV series bringing in a major character when he can start to come to the fore again.

 

i think the villains have been the biggest successes of new Star Wars so far; they've made wise decisions to not simply go "one louder" than previous villains.
During the time of the Empire, despite Sidious's power, he's by definition going to be more subtle because he doesn't need to display it; he's won. So for the Galaxy at large, including Rebels, ambitious middle managers like Krennic will be very dangerous.

I liked Vader's ending for what it was, but in a bigger picture sense I had hoped that Vader in rogue one would have been a bit more independent - I wanted a Vader who was very much in the "don't be too proud of this technological terror" mindset, perhaps even to the extent that he initially didn't concern himself with the plans, and that it was the consequences of this oversight that led to him being furiously seeking them in ANH.

The comics are getting Vader very right, I just hope that in his occasional film appearances, the filmmakers remember that Vader is Anakin, and that ultimately his tale is of redemption, and that even now the credibility of that redemption is stretched by what we've seen him do in ROTS and Rogue One (i don't think there's anything he does in the OT that would make one think "theres no coming back from this" - even killing Obi Wan is a fair fight)

 

A thing I liked about Krennic is that he seems frustrated much of the time.

On Scariff, when the battle start, the other officers just stand there and Krennic has to yell "What are you waiting for, send out the troops!" That was amusing.

In all he seems to be in a constant foul mood.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Yeah, it's everyone else's fault but Krennic's. I think he's a great Imperial. BTW, did anyone else feel his "it's started!" line originally came after the Rebel bombs went off? Feels odd when he's still at his "let's check the emails" stage of his understanding. I don't see R1 affecting his redemption arc. Vader at that stage should be beyond hope. I do think ROTS goes too far and with not enough complexity in regards his turn to make his redemption really resonate, but to be fair, even in the OT, he always got off fairly lightly. Agree on the arcs of all the characters - they do have them IMO. They're sketched as they normally are in these ensembles films, but they are there. The first Yavin scene is OK, but suffered from carrying a lot of telling around Saw - Jyn / FJ is lumbered with some tough lines, especially her rapid fire exposition. But it's brief and sets the objectives well enough. From setting Chirrut to leaving Eadu is pretty much an unbroken stretch of perfect SW for me. Then it wobbles at Yavin again and then gets back to near perfection for the final battle.

 

Have seen Rogue One multiple times now. There's no question about it - I seriously love this movie. It's a great addition to the franchise. I love the characters - particularly Director Krennic and Jyn Erso and K2 - and the music has really grown on me.

Question re the large rebellion meeting on Yavin 4 (after the team has returned from Eadu): there are several people, including Gen. Draven, who express strong doubt as to even the existence of a Death Star/super weapon and thus disagree with Jyn and Admiral Raddus that they should choose to send troops to Scarif. Draven angrily tells Jyn that Galen Erso could be making it up to lure the rebels into battle to finish them off. At that point, why does anyone, particularly Gen. Draven, doubt the existence of the weapon? Jedha had already been vaporized by the Death Star by that point. When Jedha is destroyed, the rebel radio interceptor guy actually tells Gen. Draven "Weapon confirmed, Jedha destroyed." And the entire crew (including Cassian whom Gen. Draven trusted), who were on Jedha when it got zapped (and saw the city turned to rubble with their own eyes), were there in person at the meeting to confirm what they saw on Jedha. I suspect this detail got lost in the shuffle during the movie's reshoots.

Any thoughts on this?


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I think the doubt is whether the weapon can just target cities and whether it could actually destroy an entire planet. But I agree, that bit was a little fuzzy. The alliance may not trust Jyn, Bodhi, Galen and the Guardians, but they would trust Cassian (though perhaps not if he'd just disobeyed an order). It is a bit fuzzy there, but nothing I can't overlook. I think pretty much all of the films have some of those issues. The one thing I wish this film had more of is more Saw and Jyn before Jyn has to go to Jedha.

 

I think the "making it up" referred not to the existence of the weapon, but a placement of a weakness; Draven didn't believe that Galen was working against the Empire

 

If Vader had been used to cap the central Jyn/Cassian plot I think it would have felt rather awkward but as it was I think the film as a whole clearly shifted in its focus to the Rebels in orbit so that the heroes deaths can be cast in a more positive fashion and Vader used in that context I think works nicely since the links to ANH are that much more obvious.

 

Just want to jump in for a second...

I feel the appeal of Krennic from the beginning to the end is that he is fairly obviously an individual whose usefulness to the Empire is about to expire, and we get to watch that retirement party.

His function as a character is largely to illuminate the Imperial machine and it's disregard for the human component and human achievement. It is a different perspective than we have been shown before, and I think Mendelssohn plays it well. He imparts his own brand of terror to those below him as a byproduct of his own desperation. Which is a good model for an Empire to use to take over the galaxy.

Anyway, just my take and need to see the movie some more.

 

Is it in fact "It's started!" or "Get started!" in terms of searching through Galen's communiques?

One thing I would have liked to have seen is a parallel action of Krennic at the commmand station rifling through the communications and finding the hologram from earlier, and then that prompting him to dash to the vault in a complete panic prompting the final conflict. It would have saved us the wonky Jyn reveal thing on top of the tower as well.

 

Ah, yes. Good point.

 

I wouldn't be supprised if one thing they moved away from with the reshoots and which original takes they used was having Krennic drive the story as a more traditional villain having Jyn more focused on getting revenge on him. A bit of that does remain of course but really Krennic's purpose is more to both drive the story and I think provide an alternative window into the Empire basically showing the selfishness in its heartless careerism as apposed to the selflessness of the Rebels.

What I think Edwards does effectively is make "The Empire" as a whole a more obvious villain with a lot of focus on its menacing presence plus od course the Desthstar itself played up in a more impersonal fashion. Its not just a weapon for Tarkin or the Emperor to weld brutally but a thing with a presence of its own with Krennic himself seeming to fall under its spell.

 

Yes, that was a nice touch right at Krennic's end.

 

The same when he looks at the destruction of Jehda.