ST The Island: A "Luke in TLJ" Teeth Gnashers Perspective (see warning on page 9 before posting)

He is gone ... from a certain point of view. He’s gone from Ahch-to.

Hilarious to me that TLJ defenders are now screaming ‘they can’t do that!’ OH, NOW established Force abilities matter?

Ok. Sorry kids; they can and will bring Luke back in the flesh if they want. Not saying they will, but they can. It makes every bit as much sense as Yoda thumping Luke’s head and starting a fire.

 

Pretty much. If dead Jedi can turn tangible, then living Jedi can turn intangible.

 

There is absolutely no reason why not. This film threw everything we thought we knew out the window. Not sure everyone has let that sink in just yet. Yoda being able to do what he did ... it causes so many ‘Why not do ________’ problems.

 

One day star wars fans are going to drive Kathleen Kennedy insane where she'll be in a pillowed white room rattling the door screaming, "...because it was Snoke! Because it was snoke you f-ing a-holes" Ala Sarah Connor terminator 2.

 

Hey now, show the mother of our savior more respect.

 

That’s a brilliant post. Those first few minutes of The Phantom Menace when we are introduced to young Obiwan and Kenobi was really good as was a lot of their interactions. I could have watched master and apprentice side by side again for sure.

Know the tearful feeling as well :-( Recall the same a few weeks back replying to one of @ChildOfWinds brilliant posts.

 

Obi Wan and Qui Gon, I assume you meant?

 

Indeed it was. Thanks.

Been using my phone a lot this last week and I hate reading some of my posts back when I see the word substitutions and mistakes. I had edited that line by combining two sentences and missed the double up of obiwan :-(

Lucky I’m not a writer.

 

I see nothing wrong with mentioning young Obi-Wan twice... If Force ghost Yoda can zap a tree... then two young Obi-Wans can exist in the same scene in TPM.

 

Wow I feel even worse after watching that. Its spot on.

 

I agree that there’s a double standard with TLJ defenders, especially those who are glad Luke is gone.

So we learned a lot of things in this movie with the force, with Leia flying, the kids mind linking, the projection, Yoda doing physical things, all of those things opened so much possibilities for the future.

But when we make an argument that Luke could use the force to come back from the dead in physical form, come from another dimension, or something to make Luke fans happy. But those who don’t want to see Luke as more than just a five minutes of screen time force ghost in 9 now create guidelines for the force.

Most likely, LF won’t have the courage or brains to do that, but give us Luke fans some space and some hopes for 9, because it really is the last time for Luke and Mark Hamill to end on a high note.

 

That's a big problem with TLJ. Nothing has any meaning. Heck, JJ could start Ep 9 with Rey handing Luke the broken lightsaber. Everything the same as Ep7 ending, except the lightsaber is broke. No need to explain anything. Luke is alive because he's alive on screen, and therefore it explains itself. Heck, she could hand him the lightsaber in tact. No need to explain. She scavenged and is good at fixing things. She fixed it on the ride over.That is Ep8's whole M.O.

Snoke welcomes Hux and Rey into his "real" hidden location. Snoke says "Let's finish your training." And that's it. You could nearly pretend Ep8 didn't happen.

Luke is over his "Jedi Bashing" phase. No need to go over it again. Luke can just be the old Luke.

The only thing that Ep8 will have accomplished is I'm missing a few dollars because of it.

 

There’s a straw-man, posting on the board

 

And the bold proves Ep VIII was all a bad dream caused by Luke drinking too much green milk! Make this so, J.J.! And yes, let Older Luke be Old OT Luke again.

 

LOL
We will find out Ahch-To was just a green milkaholic treatment island. Luke was going through withdrawals and having crazy dreams called "The Last Jedi".

 

IMHO the existence of that dark side place or hole still merits an official explanation.

The dark side cave on Dagobah had an incredibly well done ambiguity to it (multiple explanations although the most obvious one was probably that Luke would become like Vader if he didn't start to take Yoda's advice to heart) but I'm still wondering what the meaning could have possibly been in TLJ. Luke confronted what he probably feared or was uncertain about the most (i.e. the inevitable confrontation with Darth Vader), but I didn't see any confrontation of Rey other than with herself.

The other thing is of course why the 'prehistoric' Jedi chose a place for their studies that featured this dark side presence. If I were to attempt a feasible rationalization, I could imagine they deliberately went for a place where they'd be confronted by the dark side in order to examine the differences of the dark and light side.

Further, although I wouldn't like that concept at all, one could argue that Luke somehhow wasn't able to cope with that particular dark side place and it somehow profoundly changed him into what we saw in the film.

Of course, that's not a sufficient explanation as it would require, IMHO, that there was a similar dark side place near his Jedi Academy that was clouding his knowledge and actions, so he wasn't really "himself".

 

IMO, and I really believe this to be true, JJ is going to consult with Mark about this very issue. There is no reason for Luke to be harsh in IX, even if he is bothering his idiot nephew.

JJ didn’t get to where he is by being stupid, and he is as dumb as a post if he doesn’t talk to Mark and say ‘OK; you expressed concerns that TLJ Luke wasn’t your Luke. That served its purpose. What IS your Luke? How do we show that he’s let go of his guilt and anger and is back his old self? This is what I need him to do/say in IX; let’s talk about how that would sound.’

He’s a perfect fool if he either hasn’t already had or doesn’t have that discussion with Mark. Mark hears us; he knows what is going on in fandom.

 

As much as I would like to hope that Luke would play a big role in episode ix, and that we would get to see the REAL Luke and not that Jake imposter, I really am sorry to say that I doubt this will happen. As I keep saying, if they really wanted/planned a meaningful role for Luke in ix, Rian Johnson wouldn’t have been allowed to kill off Luke in TLJ. That death was done very purposefully. As most of us have said, Luke didn’t need to die after that force projection. I would venture to guess that at least 90 percent of the audience were shocked that this not-so-amazing force trick killed him. I would also venture to guess that most if the audience would have preferred it if Luke had survived, and I would also guess that really, kk, Iger, and everyone else involved in making the film knew this.

So, they killed Luke despite the fact that there was no reason for Luke to die from using the Force; despite the fact that most fans would have wanted Luke to live; and despite the fact that Luke hadn’t completed his job. ( He had not only not restored the Jedi order, but he hadn’t even trained Rey.) In my opinion, that certainly seems like they wanted to get rid of Luke; they wanted him out of the story; out if the saga; out of the universe. (Sadly, they were also mean-spirited in the way they portrayed him before they disposed of him, making this all many times worse.)

JJ, I think, also turned in a script before TLJ even came out, so even if there was a little concern on their part about the fans’ reaction to Luke’s portrayal, role, and death, the next script is already done. They aren’t going to now make major changes to improve Luke’s story . Plus, there’s the fact that Mark Hamill was honest and vocal about his opinions about how Luke was handled. That probably didn’t go over well with certain people. So, it’s also possible that they may not want to give Luke more than a cameo in ix, if even that, because they are annoyed with Hamill.

So, sadly, no. I think there won’t be an improvement to Luke in ix. If he shows up at all, it will be in a cameo force ghost appearance, beaming at random Rey for taking over his role and his Jedi legacy successfully, unlike his own unsuccessful attempt.

 

The most important reason against any hope for IX is what CoW mentioned and that IX script was done when TLJ entered cinema. So after this backlash (big or small whatever you prefer), there is no way they will change anything major about Luke now. So if Luke was planned as a small fg cameo, he won't return now in flesh and beeing badass in joining the fight. It just won't happen, because JJ proceeds as he already planned.

 

I agree that Luke will be nothing more than a minimal impact appearance/cameo in 9. At best, we can hope for something akin to Yoda in ROTJ. Maybe Luke as a force ghost providing some guidance to Rey, something like that. But, that would be pushing it IMO.

I sympathize with you guys, but they aren't going to "fix" Luke. What is done is done.

I had originally made a longer post, but really what can you say? TLJ Luke is canon whether we like it or not. It really is a shame.

 

Fine points, but I’d we’ve learned anything from the Disney SW, it is that they aren’t afraid of revisions.

Something like 40 percent of Rogue One was reshot, and it sounds like all of Solo was reshot.

I am guessing the script probably is finished, but I don’t think it would be a huge deal to at least give Luke more or more ‘Luke-like’ dialogue should they want to.

The question is WANT TO. They certainly can. It depends on whether or not Disney thinks there’s a need. And as I said yesterday, this isn’t just about art or doing right by Mark/Luke/fans: Disney had better keep their eye on the bottom line. A film driven by just the young cast is not a slam-dunk success, and unlike chapter 2 of a trilogy, chapter 3 is not supposed to yield a 30 percent drop-off from its predecessor.

They’d best be careful.

 

When Trevorrow was fired, I thought I read that the entire script for EP 9 was done ... except the ending. No one could make it work. And after countless revisions, no one agreed on any approach. Now maybe they threw it all away when JJ came on board...but I kind of doubt it.

 

yes and Mark said he was happy with what Colin wanted to do with Luke, so we can be sure JJ's approach is the opposite.

 

Now THAT is an interesting tidbit.

 

Fair point about the willingness to revise. They certainly did so with R1 and this soon to be released Han Solo movie. R1 was pretty solid, the latter we will have to wait to see if the revisions were for the best or not. So it is a possibility. Probably a strong likely hood that at least minor revisions will be made.

Also while I agree they are all about the $$$$ (Star Wars EVERY YEAR), that doesn't necessarily mean they will pander to Luke fans for any revisions. Or necessarily attribute any drop in revenue to how they handled Luke. I would like to be optimistic that they will take the loss in revenue as a signal to be more careful with OT characters and story and revise accordingly. But I remain skeptical. I am not sure how significant the drop in revenue is, and that they are analyzing revenue loss in that way. The movie has made 1.3 billion so far, not sure where TFA was at this point. I also think they will (probably correctly) attribute most of the drop due to the fact that this isn't the first SW movie in 10 years...

Anyway, the reality is that while IX can be pretty good, maybe even great, it can't undo TLJ.