Lit Darksaber's reputation

I was reflecting recently how in the past month, in both this forum and elsewhere, I've seen several people mention how Darksaber was so bad it made them turn into EU deniers. And that seems to be a common trend in regards to Darksaber, even before the Disney buyout and continuity purge. For some reason, Darksaber seems to be regarded by many as one of the absolutely worst pieces in the EU, maybe only beaten by Glove of Darth Vader and Crystal Star. And even then, I would say there seem to be a growing number who consider it even worse than those.

Darksaber came out at a time when I wasn't really into the EU, so it slipped through the cracks for a while. I think I only got around to reading it after ROTS came out. I was steeling myself for something truly terrible - but by the end of the book, I was confused. Is Darksaber good? No, and it is certainly in the bottom tier of books, even by Bantam standards. But is it the worst thing ever? I don't think so. And it makes me wonder what exactly makes it get that reputation.

First and foremost, I feel like the only really egregious thing in it is Madine's death. That was something that was just unnecessary, not to mention undignified and clearly put in for shock value (especially after the Essential Reader's Guide revealed that KJA had been pushing to kill a movie character off since JAT). I can't even really remember the context, other than Madine leading a commando group that then gets shot by a Hutt. (Though I would argue Madine getting killed off-camera immediately post-ROTJ in the new canon is near the same level.)

But I think the general plot, of a Hutt seeming like the new Jabba and the Imperials seeming like the new Tarkin and Motti and the superweapon seeming like the new Death Star, only for them all be revealed to be sham knockoffs defeated by shoddy workmanship, is kind of clever. But that being said, I know Star Wars fans have a tendency to read everything in black and white with no nuance or appreciation of levity, so that might explain it.

I also think that from a pure writing standpoint, it's better than Glove or Crystal Star. But at the same time, those are also like the EU equivalents of The Room, completely ridiculous but also absolutely earnest in their ridiculousness. Darksaber meanwhile is just kind of there, a middle of the road, by-the-books plot. And even a well-executed pedestrian story is going to be less appealing than a completely ridiculous one. And I agree that Crystal Star and Glove are more fun than Darksaber for precisely that reason. But it also doesn't make Darksaber absolute garbage as a result.

I know at least one or two complaints over the years also centered on Dorsk and him dying from frying himself by using too much Force power and how that didn't seem to fit into the Star Wars setting. And I did somewhat agree with that when I first read it. But given TLJ now establishes canonically that, yes, that is not only possible but it's how Luke dies, I don't see why that would be a sticking point any more.

Daala I thought was actually used well in this book, probably her best usage. She's rightfully seen a a crazy person by the other Imperials, has an actually good moment when she unifies the warlords along with having the first "villain team-up" in the EU with Pellaeon, and then completely messes up and decides to go away because even she realizes she's a joke no one will take seriously again. Compare that with Planet of Twilight where her big character development is getting back together with her ex-boyfriend, a guy who spent the last decade making porn for Hutts.

I guess while I recognize that while Darksaber certainly isn't very good, I don't really get why it got the reputation of being so toxic and terminally bad. I'd still rate it above Planet of Twilight, the Corellian Trilogy, and almost any post-NJO work (and a big chunk of the post-2005 in general output).

 

I claim this sword and my rightful place as leader of Death Watch.
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Oh....you were talking about the book that featured Durga's scrap heap. Wrong Darksaber, never mind.

 

I was surprised when I read Darksaber, it is seriously better than its reputation. Still not good, but by no means awful. Also Madine dying off-screen in canon is not confirmed, it is stated as a rumor circulating after the terrorist attack on Chanrilla.

 

Read this once decades ago when it came out when I was a teenager, for all the flack it gets Madine's death "Do you have anything to say?" "Nothing to you." still sticks with me so that counts as a success. Blew my mind they killed off a character in the movies I guess, hahahah.

Also when Jyn said "Blacksaber" in Rogue One my mind immediately went to the Darksaber platform in this book. I am also still sometimes mental canon conflict that the darksaber is a weapon and not a space station DS lazer.

Oh and someone posted an excerpt from it on here awhile ago, doesn't this book introduce the Death Star designer (one of them in Legends), Bevil Lavinski or something? And Palpatine, like, trapped him in a cage - that dropped from the ceiling in his throne room - and killed him with bees for his putting in the thermal exhaust port? ("Not the bees! not the bees! ahhhh!!") and then cloned him a bunch so he could keep killing him?

 

Daala commits her most heroic and noble act in this book. She puts the gravediggers of the empire, the warlords, into the ground. And reluctantly takes the reigns.

 

Darksaber was quite innovative at that time for merging the plotlines of two separate Imperial villains (Daala and Pellaeon, not to mention the post-DE state of the Deep Core).

I think that only The Crystal Star (which I personally never read) is usually singled out to be the epitome of Bantam badness.

 

At the time I liked Darksaber a lot as it kind of tied a lot of things together. I was brand new to Star Wars at the time (saw the OT re-releases, loved them, then got my hands on as many books as I could). It continued Daala's plot from JAT (which despite its many flaws did set up the new Jedi Order), as well as Kyp's story (even if him graduating so fast looks ridiculous now). Not to mention showing Pellaeon again, who wasn't one of KJA's characters. As well as continuing the Luke and Callista romance.

Now I can understand why it isn't fondly remembered. Between KJA's normal weak plot, Daala, and the unpopular Callista (I think she was unpopular, this was long before I signed up for online Star Wars community), Wedge's romance with Qwi, etc. I think the fleet junkies hate the line about the Executor nearly bankrupting the Empire (which is pretty silly), as well as continuing the SSD poor record in the old EU.

However, I still liked quite a few parts of the book. While Durga is mostly a joke (and its pathetic that he gets to kill Madine), I found Lemelisk interesting, especially his flashbacks. It sounds exactly like Palpatine to actually kill the Death Star's designer (one of them anyway) for its defeat at Yavin, then bring him back to life, over and over. At the time I didn't realize this was a reference to Dark Empire as I hadn't read that yet.

I also liked Dorsk 81 a lot, as well as his background, the idea of a clone suddenly developing Force powers. And while its crazy I did like the non-violent way the Jedi dealt with an Imperial fleet.

And of course when Daala resigns she sets Pellaeon up as the Imperial leader. While Daala doesn't come off as that great, at least she honestly wasn't interested in the Imp warlords' power struggles. Neither was Pellaeon but after Thrawn he had no other recourse, and then this sets up the end of the Galactic Civil War years later.

So overall I still somewhat like the book. Its definitely nowhere near as bad as Crystal Star, and I'd still rank it above Planet of Twilight and Children of the Jedi or New Rebellion. And I'd say its still definitely better than most of the post-TUF novels.

 

See, everything in this thread but switch it up to make it about The New Rebellion. Severely underrated novel.

I actually need to give Darksaber another read because it has been a good 16 or so years since I've read it, and I've only read it once. A6md I've never read Children of the Jedi/Planet of Twilight. I should get on that.

 

Kueller was clearly the final incarnation of Palpatine's spirit. A last gasp of Sidious from Chaos as he overshadowed Dolph's soul.

Right, @Sinrebirth?

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There's a lot wrong with the book. Awful prose, characters constantly unnecessarily using dialogue to explain things to the reader, capital ships buzzing around each other and blowing up as if they were snubfighters, Luke taking Callista to Hoth to feel the Force because it's a movie plane --- I mean, because he once saw Obi-Wan's ghost there (what?), the Wampa from ESB leading a Wampa army against Luke... those last two points are dumb enough to rival the scene from Jedi Prince where the Moffs are like "Let's set up our base on Tatooine! Or Hoth! Or Dagobah! Or Endor!"

It's a shame because there's a lot of fun to the book, and its fast pace is at times a nice counterpoint to its slower-paced Hambly bookends. But what does it say about Anderson that he felt the need to write a self-aware parody of himself after only three books?

This is what we had to say about it in 2010. It has some bright spots but it deserves its reputation.

 

Darksaber is my favorite Kevin J. Anderson book that doesn't also have Rebecca Moesta's name on the cover. It's goofy, but in the same way the movies can be (whereas the goofiness in the Jedi Academy Trilogy never quite worked for me).

 

In my opinion, Darksaber wasn't a horrible book. The plot was a little played, but then again, it seems like the Empire is always looking for a superweapon, aren't they? And I liked how the new Force users worked together to hold back the Imperial fleet. That was pretty awesome - showing what the Force can do when a group of Force-users link up toward the same goal. WOW!
My real problem with Darksaber was Callista. I was never a Callista fan. Since the Thrawn Trilogy, there was something about the banter and storyline of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade that told me those two belonged together. It seemed like the powers that be were kind of pushing Callista on us, and I wasn't too happy with that. It was surprising, but also pleasing, to see her leave.

 

See I was just the opposite here; I was fascinated by Callista and I thought for sure she and Luke were going to get through together. Whereas when Vision of the Future came out, I thought I'd missed a chapter, cuz the Luke/Mara of it all seemed to come out of nowhere.

 

I actually had completely forgotten about Callista, the Qwi romance, and the return of the ESB wampa being in Darksaber. On the subject of Callista, I would definitely say that both Planet of Twilight and Children of the Jedi are worse books.

Was it Darksaber or Children where Mara meets Callista? Whichever it is, there's definitely a sense that Mara was jealous of Callista. And that actually reminds me also that Darksaber is another point of evidence against "Zahn doesn't like to play with others," given he talked with KJA about Pellaeon's role, and when we next see Pellaeon in HOT, he's in the same spot he ends in Darksaber (promoted to admiral and in command of the Imperial fleet). Daala having been a disaster leading the Empire is also repeated numerous times in HOT.

The ESB wampa definitely should have been in Glove of Darth Vader. I can imagine him (her? I forget) attacking Hissa and Triclops. It's actually kind of funny in retrospect that the Jedi Academy game (inadvertently, I'm sure) borrows that plot point from Darksaber, with Luke sending his Jedi students to various Force spots from the movie, and you being the one who goes to Hoth. I think there might even be an easter egg of you finding the wampa, too.

 

Is this the novel with 'The Eye of Palpatine'? It's been quite awhile since I read the series.

 

I haven't read Darksaber, but was Madine ever really a significant character before he was killed off? I only know he showed up in the first Rogue Squadron game, but not much other than that. I guess the fact that he got killed off also meant they couldn't develop his character any further though.

 

I always thought the same. Callista had more chemistry with Luke then Mara - though it wasn't a lot, Luke's love interests have sort of sucked, always - though they made the best of Mara in the NJO.

Though, I'm going to be honest, I sorta think Mara should be in prison for her role in the Palpatinian regime.

 

He was in a few places - the Thrawn Trilogy, JAT, Dark Empire, a lot of WEG stuff. I think the original Dark Forces and X-wing games. But even if he wasn't, I'm not a fan of film characters being killed off for shock value, especially minor 'disposable' characters who are basically used as cannon fodder for that purpose. It's one of the strikes I have against the ongoing Marvel Star Wars, it seems to especially relish killing off TCW and Rogue One characters when it can.

Of course there is also the interesting thought experiment of what role Madine would have had if the Ackbar puppet hadn't worked and he had been the one in command of the Battle of Endor. Would he be as popular even though he didn't have the visual appeal of Ackbar? Would the EU still use Ackbar since they wouldn't be restrained by the special effects?

 

There is a scene between Mara and Callista in Darksaber. I remember that well.

Pretty sure it was also the first time they met.

And its nothing super special but I do remember that while Mara is clearly written to be jealous, its not like unreasonably so. Its written to be awkward for all 3 and Mara gets some mostly playful jabs in to Luke but that's it. She doesn't treat Callista badly though, which sadly makes it above the bar for how things like this tend to be written, even to this day.

Actually its probably among the best written parts of the book, which sure says uhhhh something about the overall quality but I'm not sure what. Lol

 

I honestly really want to reread Darksaber. It's been years and I'm really curious how it'll read to me now.

 

I don't doubt that Zahn would have positioned Pellaeon as the leader of a weakened Empire regardless of anything that had happened between The Last Command and Specter. Especially when you consider that the Empire is in the Outer Rim instead of the Deep Core, which would have worked as unbroken Zahn-tinuity between the two books, and that every other major character was mysteriously reset to their 5ABY status quo as well.

All of Zahn's one-line references to other Bantam books in Hand of Thrawn seemed... I dunno, obligatory? In a way that could make him seem like a team player despite actually ignoring all of the story and character progression that happened in those books. It felt like he was doing the least amount of work possible to grudgingly acknowledge that other stuff happened.

 

Yah there is a direct line between Pallaeon ordering a retreat in Last Command as his final scene and him leading the Empire hidden away in the first scene of Specter of the Past