ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

to be honest I don't think they even have a message to tell at all, especially nothing that meta.

Don't think too deeply about stuff like this, LFL certainly aren't...they're doing a nine to five job then going home.

 

Posted this also in the thread about Palpatine:

"One thing i like to mention that might hint that Palps might have never been really in danger on the DS, is the fact that he kept on trying to provoke Luke into striking him down. As a Sith he shouldn't have counted on Vader to prevent this, as there was a big chance that his apprentice might have used this moment to usurp his power, especially with Luke being Anakin's son.

So in retrospective it might have been a logical move to let Palps have survived the death star in NuCanon for the ST.

Especially as Dark Empire never happened in NuCanon."

Gesendet von meinem TA-1053 mit Tapatalk

 

Ah, okay. Well, apparently he is still just a "nobody".

 

My speculation is that 'nobody' is another force incarnate, like Anakin. Rey is the 'Luke' equivalency....

 

Well to be fair the original movies seemed to have unstated implications of merits and pitfalls of having offspring.

With Anakin's wife being pregnant being the biggest catalyst for his fall, then the return of his son years later actually redeeming him.
And to me FWIW Palpatine never seemed like the type who would bother having a love interest or a family.

Anakin fails due to his inabilty to deal with attachments, where Luke never directly has a family that we know of.
However Luke's apparent (non-romantic) attachments - while nearly becoming a weakness when Vader threatens to turn Leia at ROTJ's climax - ultimately prove his biggest strength and his love for Anakin saves himself and his father. The message seemingly being attachments aren't inherently bad, Luke just has to face his darkness, accept it as part of himself, and move past it. Maybe easier to achieve in writing, but the more selfless and "unconditional" compassionate approach.

Plus Luke's relationships with Leia and Han are a recurring source of strength, such as Han saving the day during the DS attack and on Hoth, and Leia rescuing Luke from the bottom of Cloud City.
Where Anakin's friends and family inversely, partially due to circumstance, are a major part of his downfall.

It always seemed to me like Luke would somehow incorporate both opposing philosophies in his training the next generation of Jedi, but alas it doesn't seem to have happened.

My point being, if the makers of the ST are paying attention to the source material, it isn't too much of a stretch that they might acknowledge the dichotomy here.
The rumours even state Palpatine believes he has begun to understand family with Rey, after Vader and Luke's incomprehensible (to Sidious) compassion led to his downfall previously, but it is likely a trick or just a surface-level thing, as he would never truly appreciate it.

 

I said it impacted it domestically and that Marvel’s fiercely loyal international audience — which has exceeded Star Wars’ dating back to the PT is what made it such a smash hit. The foreign audiences for Transformers, Fast & the Furious, the Warcraft movie, and Marvel are all mind blowing.

Domestically, it ranks 124th all time adjusted for inflation despite it being promoted enormously as a key development for the Avengers storyline. This is when people were desperate for clues and answers.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

If there’s enough people in the states to make you know who President then there’s absolutely enough people to counter for the surge in ticket sales from a ton of parents who took their daughters to Captain Marvel as their first marvel movie ever due to the significance of the feminism contained within. It would have absolutely hit the $550 million mark domestically with all of that going for it had a sizable amount of people who voted for Mr Orange in the last election not made it one of their rare domestic marvel movie skips.

 

@HevyDevy yup I see your point. I've seen your posts over the years and seen the detail and analysis you've put in your posts. Especially your posts about visual and poetic symmetry between the sagas. You would truly be an asset to the story group for sure. What I am saying, though, is that I don't think the makers, Abrams included think about this stuff like us fans do. Unless Kennedy and Abrams post here daily and have done long before the acquisition by Disney then all they are concerned with is telling a story for the masses and hope the box office numbers are high, and that's fine from a business standpoint. Abrams himself is a director who wants his audiences to have a thrilling ride, not one who expects his audience to look too deeply into themes. I mean his version of Forest Gump would be extremely different to Zemeckis' for example

 

It made a ton of money in the US. There is no way you can predict "of course it would have made 550 million if not for "ism-people". I always hear how the general audience doesn`t care about online bruhaha - which true - but that means there isn`t suddenly a "boycotters hurt the movie by 150 million" sitution when it`s convenient. The movie made exactly as much money as audiences were willing to spend on it. So if it bottomed out at 400+ domestically, it just did.

 

Actually, I concede on this hypothesis after discovering this solid article which explains that as loud as the boycotts are and as much influence as they have on audience scores and in online fan areas... they really don’t seem to be impacting the domestic box office as much as all of that noise would suggest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...us-that-conservatives-are-ignoring-alt-right/

 

CM made a lot of money domestically, more than Wonder Woman even. The narratives around this film are so bizarre.

Totally disagree that but for hate campaigns it would have made $550 million. No evidence to support that.

 

Yeah, you are probably right there.

I've been thinking about this stuff for years, but I do think, optimistically, that the makers of the ST at the very least are SW fans at heart and would probably notice some of this stuff.


I do think that JJ is into the source material, and considering the extensive parallels between ANH and TFA, paralleling some elements of Anakin and Luke's story from ROTJ in the finale seems almost certain to happen.
Just the (supposed) leaks suggesting Palpatine has "learnt" (but not truly) about family and is using it to manipulate Rey and Kylo is interesting to think about.

Trivially, there is already a reversal of ROTJ in Kylo's story in TFA.
With Leia trying to stop her brother going to attempt to redeem their father, and Luke is successful / then Leia sending her husband to try and redeem their son, and Han fails.
If you look at those scenes - ROTJ on the Ewok village walkway and the scene in TFA when Leia says "If you see our son, bring him home." there is even the same music playing and both scenes end with Han and Leia embracing.

It is very hard to say the depth they will go for at this stage, but I am hopeful.

 

Conversely, I don`t think Ghostbusters 2016 would have set the box office on fire if it had had positive pre-buzz. It just wasn`t that funny or had an intriguing, cohesive narrative.

Personally, I loved Wonder Woman a lot more and it kinda broke my heart that it didn`t do so well internationally. I hope the sequel is a) good and b) gets embraced more if that is the case. Captain Marvel ranks somewhere mid-tier for me - loved the score, though, that composer also did the TV show Krypton and she is really good IMO - but I consider it an absolute smash hit in terms of box office.

 

Totally agree on the score. I absolutely love it. Definitely prefer it to the soundtrack, which was more meh to me.

I don't like comparing WW and CM that much because they're totally different types of films. I feel like they get compared a lot just because they're female-led. But the box office seemed relevant because for female led films, everyone basically agrees WW was a giant hit domestically.

I love Acts I and II of WW ridiculously. Some of my favorite superhero moments of all time are in that film. However, I prefer CM on the whole to WW and most superhero films for reasons that I think are probably totally unique to me. My favorite franchise ever is Mass Effect. When I watch CM, I feel like I'm watching the ME film I always wanted. I love the stoic bad ass space soldier bit with sass and a heart of gold (I've never been able to play Shep full on renegade. He she is always closer to 50/50 or 70/30 paragon).

 

It’s a smash hit due to the international market primarily. Is doubling the $213 million dollar domestic box office of Solo — a movie many considered a box office bomb — really a smash hit domestically? Especially when it was ranked only 124th domestically with inflation? Especially given its status as the lead in for Avengers? I don’t know.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Or is it just another example of the foreign market power that Marvel, Fast & the Furious and Transformers have — and May always have — over Star Wars?

Like... check out this ratio:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=fast7.htm

1.2 billion overseas from Vin Diesel in exotic car action!

I almost think they need to change the titles entirely from Star Wars to something else and advertise them entirely differently than they have been in some of those markets. Maybe even put “From the owners of Marvel...” in the ads and change the advertising entirely.

 

I got this! Palpatine's nobody son had a relationship with the Emperor's hand, Mara Jade. Palpatine's son was a good person and Mara Jade was changed due to this and turned to the light side, leaving the Empire.

Both of them are on the run from the Empire because of the Emporer learning of this. The events of ROTJ happen and they think they are safe but then the Imperial Remnant/First Order discovers them.

Eventually have a child but they are separated while running from the Imperial Remnant/First Order; the father leaves Rey on Jakku for her protection and Mara Jade is presumed killed by the Imperials.

Mara later becomes a bounty hunter to help disguise herself and to try and find her daughter but eventually loses hope and is convinced that Rey is dead. During this time, while traveling the Galaxy as a mercenary, Mara has a brief relationship with Luke Skywalker that begins while she is trying to learn from him and attempting redeem herself as a Jedi. Luke ends this relationship right before the incident with Kylo because of his guilt over the relationship and the complications of it interfering with his teachings. Not long before Kylo's turn, Mara Jade resumes her life as a bounty hunter. After Kylo turns, Mara takes the name Zorii Bliss to help hide her identity form The First Order. Snoke of course knew of Palpatine's son and Mara and later told Kylo the story, hence his suspicion when he first meets Rey.

After TLJ, Luke discovers the truth about Rey (and her parents) and therefore feels obligated to look after Rey and thus thus adopting her as a Skywalker!

(Yes it's messy and I'm mostly joking but if Palpatine is biologically Rey's grandfather I would be okay with this scenario as fan-pleasing as it is)

 

I prefer CM to WW for a couple reasons. I didnt think the implied sex between her and Steve was necessary and I didnt like that Trevor gets a big hero sacrifice moment in HER film. I had waited a long time for her to hit the big screen and those scenes bothered me.. plus Trevor and his merry band immediately made me think they were copycats of the Howling Commandos.

CM's movie was about her completely and she got the hero moment in the end. Loved the features of her and Maria in uniform. Just something about showing women in military service I appreciated.

 

That won't help if they try to sneak in indie-arthouse stuff when people come to see a blockbuster. Advertising can only do so much if the movie doesn't appeal. So ultimately the movie would have to have a lot more of what you indicated you don't like.

And yes 400+ domestically IS a smash hit still.

 

So the time limit to edit my last post passed.... to add to my earlier post:

Palpatine's son was living life disguised as a merchant on Jakku with Rey, telling her every day that her mother would return to them soon. He was visiting Palpatine's observatory regularly trying to learn the secrets to his past and that's how he was discovered and was forced to disguise Rey and flee while promising to return to her one day. Obviously that never happened and neither of her parents made it back...

 

Lucasfilm had the even ‘massiver’ advantage of having 3 cinematically significant characters at their disposal... plus the original actors willing to reprise their roles. That’s a much bigger advantage. That Lucasfilm used Hamill, Ford and Fisher in the way they did, and ****ed up the characters for many fans, was totally down to Lucasfilm’s handling of said characters.

 

Man, it's really hard for some of us to discuss potential leaks and story points for TROS when everybody is in here discussing box office and critical response along with the prequels and marvel films while comparing them to TFA and TLJ...

 

I think Disney were really eager to get their new characters liked in the same way the OT folk were that they perhaps came across abit desperate in doing so. they needed these new characters to go down well with the audience. they needed to be able to stand on their own and be the iconic characters of this trilogy without feeling like they ere in the shadow of the OT.

Its a balance issue more then anything else.

 

fixed

 

A movie carrying the baggage of Batman v Superman, written by the guy whose next movie is...



Wait, hang on, that can't be right...

 

@Ender_and_Bean

Among marvel films only five others have done better at the box office domestically than Captain Marvel, so I don’t think it’s success is due solely to the international box office.

 

What do you mean by that? So many people say something along those lines because imo it's true. Lucas trying to show Anakin's origins and fall and paralleling that personal story with the story about how the Republic and Jedi Order lose their way was a good idea. But it was flawed, I was 10 when I rewatched AOTC and realized it was ****.