ST I Have A Bad Feeling About This - The "Haters" Sanctuary

I've seen a lot of that around, calling fans who aren't excited for TROS "toxic" or "bad fans" who's criticisms aren't valid for one reason or another simply because they choose to voice their opinion. Our opinions and criticism is just as valid as anyone else's.
And honestly, I'm holding out the tiniest bit of hope that none of the leaks are true, or very little.

 

Didn't you hear? We're a problem for the franchise

 

Baby Yoda, Baby Yoda, Baby ****ing Yoda.

Might have been really cool but it's been spoiled by an Internet full of posters with all the bowel control of a laxative laced ferret!

 

I've heard I'm an alt-right toxic fanboy with questionable personal hygiene and breath that would strip paint, who hates women and wants all my heroes to be white and male. Apparently you lot are as well.

Hang on, that can't be right... How hard are we trying to set the record straight? Because I'm not sure LFL are listening...

 

First time ever that I still haven’t bought my tickets to a Star Wars film. The leaks are so god awful that the thought of sitting in a theater to watch palpatine be brought back just to get blown up by his own force lighting is making me want to vomit.

 

I'm wondering how The Expanse would fare on the big screen. It probably should never happen, because it belongs in a GoT hourly format. It is the closest thing to a space opera, that is untouched as yet by the contagion called Abrams... but it should remain in its constrained setting. Firefly went to the big screen and was never hear from again. The Expanse has every type of strong female character that any proverbial misogynist would find under-cooked in present Disney hear-me-roar fare. There's no hear-me-roar fare in The Expanse. It is a crowded field of strong women, some who will out chess you, some who will out confidence you, some who will out mechanic you, some who will out program you, some who will out revenge you, some who will out battle you. And there's only one male character I would remotely consider to be emasculated, and that's more a case of him carrying the burden of being a parent during war. So, not really. Some of these female characters get quandaries and crises where the fate of the world is in their hands, and they have analytical reasoning based on backstory and observation.

I think The Expanse should be the touchstone, barometer, litmus test (, pregnancy test) for whether any random guy in his alleged mother's basement is genuinely all the things that the defenders of Disney's ST say he is. It he can't handle any of the female characters of The Expanse, let it be published far and wide that he satisfies the criteria to be called names and so forth.

But just because someone takes exception to Rey, Holdo... that's not a good test. (I'm blanking on any other female characters in ST that cause a halt. Rose is just Rose and has lines. Not a powerful or compelling arc. Not objectionable on a gender dialectic. But does carry nearly all the water for Johnson's poorly thought out socioeconomic / political message. Which is... vacuous.)

 

That's quite OK. I just found it ridiculous for one character to be named like the other one says and for him to ask a girl he met just after he defected does she have a boyfriend.

I find Finn as a crown example of superficiality of the ST characters. Stormtrooper defects, tries to woo Rey, he knows that the Republic was destroyed by the FO just by looking at the sky from Maz's castle, he knows how to destroy the SKB, he weilds a lightsaber. Again, his story in TLJ wasn't much, but sometimes less is more.

 

God, despite the fact that the movie is selling well, this whole thing has been like watching a massive train wreck unfolding. The media, this formum and forums alike, pretty much the entire fanbase, the complete internet, they've all been on one massive campaign to see that this movie burns to a crisp!

TLJ has left a massive scar that you don't want to acknowledge is there, but its long lasting effects are unfortunately profound. And the ointment you use only makes it worse.

 

The brutal numbers may well be the international ones.

 

Yeah, i dont expect numbers being above average everywhere outside USA.

 

I will freely admit I do. I want to see JJ take some heat for the insulting way he treated GL and all PT fans.

 

Does anyone wonder how that scene could be his favourite, yet when asked about Darth Palgueis during the TFA promo wagon he laughed and that Kasdan fella said Darth Vegas?

Curious

 

There's a strong possibility he only watched RotS for the first time after it became obvious TLJ was a despised failure among people who actually like Star Wars, and he needed fresh ideas to try and 'save the franchise'.

 

When pressed on the Prequels during the press tour for TFA...he mentioned that his favorite was "the third one"

Wonder if he even remembered the name.

 

I’m usually in the optimism thread. But I will say this among the “haters”.

What really hurt the Sequel trilogy was the 2 year window between films instead of the usual 3.

And I blame that on the shareholders and Disney executives that wanted immediate return on their investment.

A 3 year production gap would give time to iron out details, a focused storyline, prevent rush production etc. also it gives one director a chance to do all 3 films, for a more cohesive trilogy.

There’s no way one director could do all three films within 6 years. We’re lucky JJ deciding to come back and do the last one, in that respect.

This also prevents so called over-saturation among fans, and prevent burnt out on the actors.

A know a lot of fans blame the mouse for “ruining” Star Wars. But I say only Disney's crazy rushed movie schedule for the franchise hurt them overall.

 

Agree on the gap. It did not allow time to see how a film was received before finalizing the script and story for the next film. TLJ could have used that especially.

 

The only thing that hurt the ST was not 2 or 3 years it were bad stories and no overall arc and having no plan at all.

 

The rush incentivized quick decisions, which inevitably incentivize easy decisions. The easiest of all being to copycat the OT.

 

I will say, the one factor that destroys my argument is Carrie’s untimely death in 2016.

With a 3 year schedule, Carrie wouldn’t have shot anything for the 2nd film. And then the creators would be screwed over in another way.

So maybe what actually happened with the 2 years, was best case scenario?

 

Maybe. But conceptually TLJ really needed about 6 months to evaluate the fan response to TFA before settling on its story, especially for Luke but also for the new characters. Fans walked out of TFA with certain expectations for the new characters and for Luke, and the subversion at all costs approach to TLJ might have been re-evaluated or at least moderated with the benefit of a longer period of time to evaluate.

 

Or maybe they would have decided to keep Luke alive until the end, which is what we all wanted.

 

The timeline didn’t prevent them from mapping out a three film story. That was management. The lack of planning and lack of understanding story is where they effed up, and ultimately KK, JJ, and RJ are all collectively responsible imo.

 

Here is something that I hate - how excuses are made for Star Wars not having success without pointing the finger at those who ultimately are in charge.

This ST story, with TROS hopes but is unlikely to save - is all because of the original sin. That fault isn't in not using GL's ideas (although I believe they should have) but in not having a solid plan from the start in what is Star Wars and instead throwing out anything that can have a Star Wars label slapped on it. That's on upper management (Iger, KK, etc..) more than any director or actor.

 

This. George knew where his story for a sequel trilogy would have gone, and the essentials of how it would have unfolded, when he sold Star Wars to Disney. Tolkien had already determined where The Lord of the Rings was going when he penned The Hobbit, and the Hobbit sets The Lord of the Rings up perfectly despite having been written 15 years earlier. And as far as I'm aware, the Marvel series, despite releases being much more frequent than a 2-year interval, had an overarching direction as well. It's long-term world and story-building, and it gives all the direction you need once you go into actual production, whether in writing or in film-making.

That world building and that long term planning never happened for Disney's version of the ST, and it shows instantly. Heck, merchandising and EU productions between TFA and TLJ were crippled because that long term planning had never happened.

Incidentally, lack of long-term work is also where JJ goes wrong with his application of the mystery box theory: when you have built your world, the mystery box is never going to threaten your stories' integrity, because you've long since known what's in there, and it fits the rest of the world you've built regardless of whether you eventually reveal the contents of the box or not. When you don't have a plan, however, you can never know how the mystery you left for later may end up coming back to haunt you.

 

They didn't understand the lore on either the storywriting or the meta level. They ignored the central lesson of the saga: Fear is the path to the dark side.

Fear (of anti-PT backlash) led them to
Take the quick and easy path (copycat the surface elements of the OT - parade out the OT3 as marketing hooks despite not knowing what to do with them),
Quick to join in a fight it was (as awful as TFA was, it did make beaucoup bucks... in the short term)
But consume them it will (four movies in and RIP to their grand plans for a movie a year till the end of time.)
And forever dominate your destiny. (ok - maybe not that far. The Mandalore is nice. Even Yoda was wrong about Vader, Ventress, etc.)
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