ST The Rise of Skywalker - Reviews/Reactions Thread (See Warning On Page 98)

Well, I saw it yesterday afternoon. And it was...OK.
It's not the enduring classic some fans have called it, nor was it the crime against humanity other fans have called it. It was...OK. I was entertained. I thought it was well-made. I had a good time watching it. I didn't demand my money back. I might go see it again in a theater.
Now, as I wrote to a friend of mine, I did have to do one thing: I had to treat it as a self-contained movie. I couldn't consider it in relation to the PT or the OT, because, whenever I did, I realized just how much of it was a retread. It wasn't as good as the original, but it was generally fine. But there were moments which reminded me of the "Calvin & Hobbes" cartoon about "Tyranosaurs in F-15s!" (Calvin: "This is so cool!" Hobbes: "This is so stupid.")
Hey, it was great to see Lando return. They managed to not turn Leia into the dreaded "Fake Shemp". It was good to see Luke in a more positive light. And seeing Han one more time was nice. (And I say that was no "memory"; Ben actually contacted him in the afterlife.) And we got another "Doctor Who" alumnus in "Star Wars" (and he's another non-canonical Doctor!). But it, like the ST in general, could've been much better. And there were a lot of great opportunities missed.
It's not my favorite "Star Wars" movie. (That's a six-way tie between Episodes 1-6). It's not my favorite Disney "Star Wars" movie. (That would be "Solo".) But I liked it.
Now I just have to wait for Disney to announce, "The End of the Saga...Didn't Take. Coming Soon: Episode X."

 

I totally forgot about the Shalka Doctor - i remembered he was Simeon/the Great Intelligence but i completly forgot about Scream, lol

 

I really like all three of those characters, but I completely disagree that any of them are even in the same discussion as the OT characters in terms of icons.

Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo, Obi Wan Kenobi, Chewbacca, R2-D2...these are legendary film characters. They are alongside Dorothy, King Kong, James Bond, and a few others in terms of all time icons. Even people who have never seen a SW movie know who these characters are... I think you'd be lucky if even a small percentage of people on the street today know who Rey, Kylo or BB-8 are...

IMO, there is no comparing the OT characters with either the PT or the ST in terms of being icons.

 

I am posting this here because this is the only place online in public I’ve really discussed Star Wars. The other place I’ve visited is the Reylo forum. I have somewhat negative impressions of both forums because they represent a rift in the fandom to me that forms around a wound. They are on opposite sides of a polarity, and between them—there is no between them—the middle ground is missing. It makes it such that I can feel at home in neither place. This place however is the one that ultimately caused me the most pain while also being the place that shut me up the least of the two. (But don’t get me wrong, I have more sympathy for fellow Reylos.)

I remember in my browsing of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker reviews finding one titled something along the lines of how it was the fans who killed Star Wars (King Kong reference – it was beauty who killed the beast). I love this heading (I forget its details) because of how it is both true and not true at the same time. In King Kong, she didn’t kill him, not really – society did. Society has also killed Star Wars (but know that which dies can be reborn, and Star Wars has died only in one realm while it remains alive in things like The Mandalorian).

I hated this movie – I am always lost in my feelings as a deeply unstable person and when I say hate there are so many other feelings, even love, that are bonded with it. I don’t know if this is my ultimate verdict or only my current one, and of course being human, there is never an ultimate verdict, only the need of the rational mind to constantly declare one in defiance of reality. Were I a more wise enlightened person perhaps I could transcend that, but as yet, I can’t.

Mostly I am in line with the critics and I agree with the average of what they say. I would rate this movie low and as the worst of this trilogy. It is because there is no “heart” or “soul” – either word will do. It is empty. It renders the trilogy with very little to say. It tries to bring “the feels” but when you break it down there isn’t any substance beneath. That is why it is death and another review I recall the title of is fitting: it should be called The Funeral of Skywalker. To me that isn’t about the death of all the OT characters and their son Ben/Kylo, but about how the death of the OT3 didn’t mean anything. It didn’t matter. This entire trilogy didn’t matter. I say this also believing that I may later in the future after moving away from it be able to come back to it and find something. But for now, I just feel this empty sick feeling about it because it’s hollow and panders to the fans in a disgusting way, has nothing to say, has no originality, and has in a way lowered the overall meaning of the entire saga.

When I talked with immediate family about it, neither of whom are really invested in Star Wars to begin with, they could easily write it off and say that they never expected anything from it in the first place. From the beginning they recognized it for what it was: Disney has its cash cow and it doesn’t care about anything but making money off of it. It was stupid and meaningless from the start in their view. I can understand in that I did see TFA as an annoying rehash of what came before, but it also had new things that could be built upon. After TLJ I thought it was leading somewhere meaningful even if where it led would be a place I wouldn’t like as someone attached to certain things.

IX is just… it’s nothing. It’s nostalgia clutter. It’s fan pandering. It’s even poorly made and not even given the time it needed to finish. It’s the worst editing I’ve ever seen save my own editing when I made YT fan videos. I don’t think it’s because the editor(s) suck or something; it’s that there wasn’t enough time to do a good job. I watched it three times looking for meaning, looking for something I’d like, looking to change my feeling – but it also wasn’t until the third viewing that I began to be able to process the awful editing and pacing. It’s painful watching this movie. It’s tedious. It’s a POS in terms of a viewing experience because of how choppy and blink-and-you-miss-it it is. I can’t believe they bothered to offer themselves up for FYC academy awards in that realm rather than admitting they rushed it to the point that it was impossible to succeed.

The whole thing is a bunch of contrivances. There is the contrived and forced together trio that naturally ditches Rose Tico because jerks online hated her (this is the thing I find most disgusting of everything). The trio is here only for nostalgia, to try (and utterly fail) to capture something of the Leia-Luke-Han dynamic. There is the contrived resurrection of Palpatine, here only because the people making the story didn’t have time and because they can’t imagine any other framework than repeating ROTJ (RJ tried to stop them by repeating it himself in TLJ, but nope, we have to do it again). There is the contrived Ben Solo redemption which I want so badly to follow and believe, but am left with how it almost wasn’t even his choice. It wasn’t his compassion that overcame the dark side, it was a series of circumstances that left him nowhere else to go. There is the contrived reveal of Rey’s lineage that people actually laughed at when I watched this in a half full theater on opening evening. I couldn’t really believe it either, but it wasn’t for lack of trying.

Ultimately what does this trilogy say? What I hate the most is House Skywalker vs. House Palpatine. W. T. F. I always loved Rey Random, but Rey Palpatine was like candy to me when I heard it in the leaks. I had thought bringing back Palpatine had potential. I had thought Rey Palpatine could be interesting. But to me it needed to be handled WELL. IX does nothing with it that Rey Random couldn’t do, while making Star Wars more elitist than it’s ever been. I loved that TLJ said, no you don’t need a special effing Force lineage to be really strong in the Force and the one who is at the center of restoring balance. I loved it because when I came to this forum I was somewhat shocked by how many people kept saying Rey has to be a Skywalker to justify herself. No. She. Doesn’t. Then IX comes in and is almost saying, “Welllllll…. actually she does.” And making Finn FS and not coming from a special lineage doesn’t soften that (PS I do see foreshadowing for FS Finn so I don’t think it’s a bad idea even though it of course came off as terribly contrived and pointless just like everything in IX does).

Anyway, I hope Disney and LF are happy with themselves. I can’t even discuss this trilogy because it’s incoherent. What does it say about the Force? It says the Force is like the superpowers in the Marvel universe. Darth Sidious, who was so far down the dark path that his soul should be pretty much hollowed out by the dark side, can be resurrected as himself. The dark side apparently doesn’t destroy you from the inside out. No. No. No. You still live forever. How can I relate to the damage it causes when it doesn’t damage you? What is the POINT? It seems the point is to tear down everything of meaning in Star Wars to “make it more accessible”? This coming from Disney, from the super rich who can’t even make their crap accessible to poor people. It’s always hypocritical to try to say you are giving us something authentic and meaningful in a story when you are making a whole bunch of money off of it. Before being acquired by Disney, LF walked the line, the line such industries MUST walk. They walk it no longer. They are greed, grasping, the dark side, the absolute antithesis of the values they claim to uphold. They may join finishing school for the upper middle class of course because THAT is who they speak to. And their pandering to people with disposable income is absolutely pathetic. What are they afraid of? They have so much power compared to so many people on Earth. What in the **** is their problem? Cowards much?

Anyway this doesn’t ruin Star Wars. I can always just watch Eps. I-VI and be fine. It’s just I wish they had not lied so much. I wish they could just say they are being disingenuous for profit because it’s the truth.

To console myself I started feeding another evil corporation (CBS All Access) to watch the new Trek. It’s the other franchise that’s been with me since before age 5. I was pleasantly surprised by it. It’s not lost on me that JJA was involved in the reboot of it as well. The reboot worked with Trek as far as I can tell. It has evolved and made itself relevant again. I didn’t like JJA rehash Trek, but I like where that led (and without JJA rehash it wouldn’t have happened). Why is it that this strategy seems to have worked well with Star Trek but feels awful in Star Wars? I wonder if it’s the fandom. The Star Wars fandom is beyond toxic. Maybe the Star Trek fandom is more constructive and that allowed a more productive relationship between that fandom and those creating Star Trek Discovery. They have catered to fans. For instance, they brought back the character of Hugh because the fans were angry they killed him. And boy did they bring him back. They gave him an amazing character arc and it was worth it and it meant something. I do think Star Trek Discovery can get a bit melodramatic, but it is not soulless, it is not heartless. It is full of life.

In Star Wars, The Mandalorian show is full of life. Is it that the cost was the saga? Or has this current trilogy done more damage for the future than it might appear?

Speaking of toxic fandom, I regret much of my participation in public online Star Wars fandom. I didn’t understand the fire cracker I was playing with and I didn’t understand how much damage it could do. The fans have hurt Star Wars. It is not just its creators. And I was part of that. And for that, I am sorry. I don’t know how to not make it worse. This very post might be making it worse.

To Disney and LF wrt that I can say only this: It is the destiny – nay the responsibility – of a Jedi to confront fear. Have faith in the story you want to tell. Do NOT allow us to destroy you.

And lastly, contrivances aside, I know the Ben Solo the movie showed. He was what I saw hiding beneath Kylo Ren. And I know Rey knew he was there. You can accuse me of advocating abuse, but know that I was abused my entire childhood so my perspective comes from knowing that many truths that appear to be contradictory can exist at the same time; and know that I recognize when people take something with many interpretations and try to reduce it to only their interpretation to gain power over others, I see right through it.

 

Luke sacraficed himself to allow the suriving members to the Resistance (the only peaple who at the time were willing to resist the First Order) to escape, and in doing so established himself as a matyr whose actions inspired others, while Leia sacraficed herself in a final (and sucessful) attempt to bring her son back to the Light. Han, yes, did'nt really accoplish much of anything but that's not really his fualt - he confronted the past he had been running from and tried to bring his son back, and even though he did'nt suceed it was still a brave act on his part; sometimes you just don't suceed.

I would have perfered to have them on screen together for a geniune momenent, but personally i'm pretty satisfied with what we got; especially when it came to Luke in TLJ, which i personally consider to be one of the most emotional and meaningful moments in the entire saga

I agree with you 100 percent. The backpeddling regarding her orgins and the treatment of Rose are my two biggest issues with the film. And unlike some of my other issues i don't they'll every go away

The Force is literally space magic; it has been for a long time, before the ST and even before the prequals. Nothing we see in the movie is entirly without precident in the overall history of the francise, and most of the powers introduced in the film were longtime stables in canon well before Disney reset it in 2014

As for Palpatine's ressurection, he mentioned knowning the secret to eternal life back in Episode 3, and given the state of his body in this film it's pretty clear it was destroying him - quite thouroughly, actually.

DISCO is excellent, well-written and a blast to watch (its no DS9 or TNG, but few things are and it's a high bar to meet anyway).

In terms of toxicity i'd rate the fandoms about the same, unfortunatly. IMO; the old adage of "nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans" works just as well if you replace "wars" with "trek," sadly enough.

The Mandalorian and Rebels, as well as an influx of fresh new fans. Personally the ST was a small price to pay for that, and i have high hopes going forward

You don't have anything to apologize for, and you've expressed your opinion with a great deal of tact and respect, so i can't imagine you'd make anything "worse" - expressing your opinion is never wrong or anything to be ashamed with, unless your forcing it upon others or cuasing harm with it.

And the fandom the implosion and split that occured during the Prequal era, so i have faith we'll be fine.

 

Another thing that I hated is that small teams win too much. A team of 5 or less successfully infiltrates a Star Destroyer without any of them getting killed. Yeah ok. The five best Navy Seals on Earth would not be able to infiltrate something with similar security, such as Guantanamo Bay. Yet this group does it all of the time. If they were Jedi, I would completely understand, but they are not.

 

Yep. And the Falcon just sitting there, patiently waiting with nobody around.

 

Oh I got nasty in my argumentation as many have. But it's also that the internet is a giant megaphone. It amplifies every little opinion, turning it into something greater than the power of one. I didn't understand this when I joined this forum. My regret isn't about ME, it's just this reality of the internet. I don't know the solution. I believe the internet brings a lot of good (I'm not being anti-internet or something), but I guess it's the "with great power comes great responsibility" kind of idea. And it's not that *I* am powerful, but that the fandom together IS.

 

The characters you listed have been around for decades now to cement their legendary movie status. It's only been four years for Rey, Kylo Ren, and BB-8 but I feel like they're pretty recognizable for the most part and have earned their iconic status. For example, some of my friends who have never seen a Star Wars movie and don't know anything about it are fully aware of Kylo Ren. Whereas with the PT, the only character who really become well known was Darth Maul.

This is also the reason that Galaxy's Edge is primarily using new characters like Rey, Kylo, and BB-8 alongside legacy characters like Chewie and the other droids. Disney has enough faith in these characters to sustain a theme park that they don't feel they need Luke, Leia, Han, and Vader.

 

Picture of the day!

 

The small team concept has been in Star Wars since day one. Not that its realistic grant you but you can't just subscribe that to the ST. No way. Look at mando he kills hundreds of storm troopers with his buddies. The imperials have been idiots since A new hope.

 

Sums it up completely...

 

Are you happy with Teddy Bears with stones taking down an Emperial Garrison?

 

I loved it. I don't over analyse Star Wars films. I try to recapture the feelings that made me fall in love with them when I was a kid. I didn't over analyse the originals in the 80's so I don't with these. This film felt more like a Star Wars film than the others.

 

I read an interesting article about the screen time the big 3 had together in the OT and over the 3 films the total amounted to something just under 30 minutes.

 

Edit: NVM: Not the thread for this.

 

Wow is that really true? I guess it shouldn't be that shocking. In ANH, they're really just together for the Death Star scenes and portions of Yavin. In TESB, it's just a brief scene on Hoth when Luke's in the medical chamber. ROTJ would have more screentime after they defeat Jabba, like in the Imperial shuttle and parts of Endor. But even on Endor, Leia gets separated from Luke and Han and in the Ewok village, Luke ends up leaving.

It would be interesting if Rey, Finn, and Poe have as much screentime in TROS as Luke, Leia, and Han did in the entire OT.

 

Here's the article

https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/f...-are-han-luke-leia-actually-together-onscreen

I'm not sure how accurate it is

 

That's not accurate. The characters are together for at least the first 20 minutes of ROTJ... and that's just one film. I think someone has probably counted how many minutes the 3 actors/characters are in the same shot together... which is obviously a different thing entirely.

 

Not really. There's the brief scene where Leia frees Han from carbonite. Then when Luke enters the throne room and Leia is chained to Jabba's dias. Han isn't brought up until after the Rancor is killed which is the first time the trio are together in ROTJ. For the whole Sarlaac part, after the battle starts, Luke leaves Han, Lando, and Chewie aside and Leia gets a little bit of time with Luke when she's on top of the deck.

 

Not to mention the Spectres infiltrating Imperial bases and warships on multipule occasions in Rebels

To be fair, the Ewoks got their asses kicked until Chewie turned the tide with the captured AT-ST

Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker during the Battle of Endor, 4 ABY, colorized

While I agree with you their's also the fact that "narritivly" their would really be no realistic way to have any other OG charecter other then Leia and Chewie at Galaxy's Edge given when its supposed to be "set." (post TLJ and pre-TROS)

I agree with you about the first part, but it seems somewhat pedantic to count them as being "seprated" during the Sarlacc battle - it was very obviusly the same scene and they were in at least as close proximity to each other as Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan during the Arena bit in ATOC

Otherwise, yes the OG big three don't really have as many overall scenes with each other in the OT as peaple think - In ANH Luke dos'nt meet Han until he leave Tatooine, and Leia is seperate from the other two for most of the movie, while in ESB their only all on screen together once (when Leia kisses Luke)

Ah, I see. Still, you seem to be well aware of the mistakes you made and seem determind not to make them agian, which in itself a very mature viewpoint and in some ways more meaningful then any apology you could give

As for what you say about the internet - your right - it's something thats somehow made the world closer then ever while also creating new ways to be divided. But the negitivity becomes stronger with every single voiced added to it, so simply by refusing to contiue being one of those voices you've probobly done more then you give yourself credit for.

 

Was there a reason the rate 1--1 0 thread was stopped?

 

Fact - the Internet is somehow both the best and worst thing ever invented by humans.

 

Watch my SPOILER review here:



I go into quite a bit of detail. Would appreciate your feedback!

 

I didn't feel like creating a new thread so I figured this one was as good as any to place this in. Granted, I didn't hate the movie at all. To me it was fine and entertaining. I'm not among those that need to nitpick any and all retcons in a SW movie (which should come as no surprise).

All the Ways the Rise of Skywalker Completely Retcons The Last Jedi