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Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Apr 26, 2010.

  1. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    It’s has the ingenious plot of the villains using a false flag operation, which is ironic that the protagonist originally made profit from the military industrial complex.
     
  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    And I think that ingenious twist would have worked better of the rest of the villainous plot and conflict didn’t end up feeling like it was mostly the same as Stane and Vanko’s story in the other films.

    The twist itself is pretty smart in terms of what it means and in being a misdirection - but it would maybe have been more frightening if Killian and co. were the “bait,“ and Kingsley was playing the actual Mandarin as a dead serious and no-nonsense “switch” alongside the Ten Rings organization from the previous two films. Tease the audience with the conventional and expected formula for the badguy, with a personal grudge against Stark, straight up monetary motivations, and fancy new tech... then yank the story in a hard right into a fanatical badguy with some esoteric goal beyond mere wealth and exploiting the system, and who has no problem using simple intelligence, audacity, and massive overkill as his primary tools.

    ...Or to put it another way, the thing that Captain America: The Winter Soldier did when they revealed Pierce as the main villain with Hyrda and had the evil plan be something that could be summed up as “murder everyone until Hydra’s the undisputed ruler of the world.”

    I really do think the dead seriousness and all-too-real nature of the Trevor Slatterly “Mandarin” scenes kind of overshadowed and overwhelmed the otherwise quite competent, if unimpressive, work with Killian and Extremis plotline - Guy Pierce is an awesome guy who can do a villain like nobody’s business, but the type of terror and tension evoked by the false-flag operation kind of made Pierce playing a more classical megalomaniac underwhelming by comparison.

    It also kind of inverted the seriousness of the film a bit; the most tension and drama of the film is early on, and while the last fight is incredibly creative, it also feels lighter and more conventional.

    The fact Marvel is introducing a new version of the Mandarin now, and was already moving that way with that short released a few years ago, tells me that Feige and co. felt there was still more potential to the IP than IM3 used.
     
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  3. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    I liked the Killian reveal (though it was originally going to be Maya), because this is the first real villain that was born from Tony’s arrogance.

    In Iron Man 1, Obadiah was the business partner of Tony’s dad. In Iron Man 2, Vanko was a result of Tony’s dad’s past.

    Finally in Iron Man 3, the villain’s path started as a result of Tony’s previous douchebagginess personality.

    And finally Tony has to face a living consequence of how he use to be.


    Meanwhile, Peter Parker in both Homecoming and Far From Home is facing villains born from consequences of his mentor Tony.

    So I hope in the third Spider-Man film, the villain is born with a relation to Peter’s life and not Tony’s. Thus continuing the cycle.



    Eh, the Mandarin is being used now in Shang-Chi because Marvel didn’t want the PC nightmare of a rich white guy in Tony fighting a Chinese man.

    With Shang Chi as protagonist they don’t have to worry about that now, and with the added bonus, don’t have to worry about both the rights and the negative stereotypes of Fu Manchu.
     
  4. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Time-Traveling F&G Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Apr 27, 2005
    I mean, in the IM3 short that was released, they pretty much confirmed the real Mandarin was out there.

    Edit: As for Spidey - 3, the natural choice would be Harry Osborn, but has enough time passed between the character's last appearance in ASM2 to bring the character into the Sony/MCU shared universe?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  5. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    For me personality, I want all goblins to rest for a while.

    Peter’s identity is out, so he’s technically a fugitive. I wouldn’t mind Kraven the Hunter or Scorpion hunting him down.
     
  6. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Time-Traveling F&G Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Apr 27, 2005
    I mean Oscorp has been introduced, so methinks we're getting Norman in the MCU eventually (especially if they go down the Dark Avengers road), but yeah, the Goblin stuff needs a rest.

    I wouldn't mind Kraven, to be honest, as he's one that hasn't been introduced into the live - action movies yet.
     
  7. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    No no bring the Goblin back! Third time's the charm obviously.
     
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  8. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    I’d rather Spider-Man not go the Superman route, and keep bringing just Luthor and Zod back over and over and over again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  9. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Time-Traveling F&G Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Apr 27, 2005
    And Spidey has a whole host of a Villians Gallery beyond the Goblins (and Venom, but he's already back in Sony's part of the Spideyverse, so...) that, if used properly, could be great to see on screen.
     
  10. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Jedi Commish star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    The villain I really want to see take on Fugitive Spider-Man is Kingpin, but specifically Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin. And I'm not sure we'll get that.
     
  11. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Retired Superninja star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Kraven is my pick. It seems like the perfect time to use him with Peter’s identity revealed. It also sets up another potential member of the Sinister Six for the fourth film. We already have Vulture, Shocker, Scorpion and Mysterio (because he’s obviously not dead, c’mon). Doc Ock could be introduced in this film too or the fourth film.
     
  12. PCCViking

    PCCViking 2 Truths & a Lie Host./16x WW Win/15xHMan Win. star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Who would make a good Kraven? I think Luke Evans should play him.
     
  13. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    lord jonhamm
     
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  14. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Retired Superninja star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 31, 2012
    I like the idea of Joe Manganiello as Kraven.
     
  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    How about Lord John Marbury?
     
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  16. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    he works too!

    except he died last yr i think
     
  17. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Gender-flipped Kraven -- Gugu Mbatha-Raw.
     
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  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Or instead of gender-fliping, have her as Ana Kravinoff, who is in this version is Kraven the Hunter
     
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  19. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    She’s already appearing in the MCU on Loki’s Disney Plus show.
     
  20. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    What about Alexander Skarsgård? He is Swedish and Sweds are often used for roles as Russians, and he has already played one animal master as Tarzan
     
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  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    He was Flash Thompson in the Raimi Spider-Man movies, that would be super fun casting to make him Kraven.

    I'm thinking JJJ and the Spider-Slayers / Scorpion could be the baddies in the next MCU Spider-Man, basically baddies born from JJJ's hatred of Spider-Man. Of course, what I would actually want is Sinster Six already. No more teasing it out, Sinister Six already please.

    Norman Osborn I'm thinking they should bring him back as head of Dark Avengers / Thunderbolts and reuse the Iron Patriot outfit.

    As for the Iron Man 3 Mandarin twist, always loved it and I'm totally okay with the Retcon All Hail the King and new "real" Mandarin upcoming. It basically makes Killian even more of a jerk since he's co-opting a different baddie, he's not even an original baddie.

    Anyway frankly the most important thing out of all of this Mandarin business is we absolutely need to see what happened to Trevor Slattery after the short film. He better still be there, maybe Mandarin kept him around as a backup false face for the organization. He's too zany to kill offscreen dangit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  22. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Time-Traveling F&G Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Apr 27, 2005
    J.K Simmons hinted in a recent interview that he could pop up as JJJ in future Spidey films, so it's possible.
     
  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    JJJ and his tech goons could be the MCU Spider-Man 3 villain as Far From Home had a theme about Fake News and Mysterio's final words of "people will believe what you want them to believe." Making JJJ and the Daily Bugle the main antagonist could continue that theme and make it more explicit than it was in Far From Home.
     
  24. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 9

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    Oct 3, 2003
    I agree aboutt Wilson Fisk coming in

    Now that Daredevil isn't stuck on Netflix anymore.

    I'd love it Vincent D'Onofrio came back.
    Easily adaptable for PG-13
    Unless they want to just make him ridiculously huge like Into the Spiderverse

    In the 90s series Alistair Smythe had a big role with Fisk, he'd be a good villain
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  25. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I weirdly enough thought that if Sony wanted to use the Spider Rogues for spin-off characters, the Kravens (plural) would be the way to go.

    And at some point I thought of the idea of Sergei hunting Spider-man in the city, while Ana infiltrated his school, and we could see the hilarity of Peter, MJ, and Ned having to deal with an “undercover” supervillain peer of theirs who *maybe* doesn’t actually blend in that well... while the new guidance counselor who’s totally easy to skip over starts changing his face as well, since it’s Chameleon.