ST I can’t forgive the ruination of the original characters legacies

The natural progression from ROTJ to the Sequels would be the rebuilding of the New Jedi Order under Luke and New Republic under Leia. It was a slam dunk- the Empire was defeated and our heroes had won, but there was still work to do to ultimately bring the galaxy to a new golden age. And of course, JJ Abrams and his infinite imagination just threw all of that away in the opening crawl of TFA, because he thinks “true Star Wars” is mindless Rebels vs Empire fighting, instead of actually telling a story with progression. And to my surprise, a lot of fans loved it- including fans who grew up with the OT. Now, I get it- people can have their own opinions. But I was simply shocked that so many people were ok with the ruined legacies of Han, Leia, and Luke just so we
could have Dollar Store ANH instead of an actual continuation to the story. It ultimately appeared a lot people only cared about the superficial parts of the Star Wars movies, and I now understood why these types of fans hated the prequels- because they didn’t
feel or look like the originals. Now, I’m certainly not saying there aren’t legitimate criticisms of the prequels- but the fact that they were “too different” than the originals is not one of them. They were telling a story that ultimately culminated in the story of the Original Trilogy, which itself had three separate stories to tell. All of this lead to organic growth for the main characters throughout the films.

And then TFA assassinated Han and Leia’s characters, turning Han back into a smuggler who abandoned his family, whose son with Leia had turned evil. Not only had Leia lost her son, but her New Republic failed miserably, and she failed to become a Jedi. We do later learn at the last minute that she did train to be a Jedi, but she gave up because… she sensed the death of her son? Who ended up dying anyway? But arguably nobody’s character got it worse off than Luke, who turned into a grumpy, non-functioning hermit and abandoned his friends because Han and Leia’s son killed off his entire Jedi Order (also, seriously Disney? A Luke NJO would be a money printing machine, imagine going to a Disney theme park and being able to build a lightsaber at Luke’s Jedi academy. Ugh.) Finally, even Anakin’s sacrifice was in vain, because Palpatine returns with 0 explanation, and there’s no reason to believe he’s actually dead this time.

But you know what’s funny? All three ended up failing, and ultimately dying, due to Kylo
Ren/Ben Solo. In order to prop up their new villain, Abrams, Kasdan, and Johnson tore down the legacies of legendary characters to prop up their awful, awful Darth Vader rip off. And for that, I can never forgive this trilogy.

 

When asked about criticism of KOTCS, Harrison Ford said this:

"They were imposing their rules on what the movie should be. I don’t feel it’s necessary to address those issues. I think that everyone has a right to their opinion."

That's sums up how I feel about posts like yours. Sorry there are Star Wars films that aren't doing it for you.

 

To put this in perspective, you can't solely blame Disney/LFL and the ST for this result. The old EU, from Vector Prime onwards, seemed pretty much directed towards inflicting a metric ton of pain and failure upon the heroes, and having the NR and the new Jedi fall apart. And, on down the road, I figure the heroes of the ST will see all of their accomplishments overturned by whomever the next bunch of authors/filmmakers are, in favor of their own characters.
That's just the way it works these days, I guess.

 

Everything OP said is why I never gave TFA/JJ a free pass and consider it the worst SW film. It catered to the rigid narrow mindset of keeping the galaxy strictly in 1977 and screwed over everyone involved; not just the OT heroes but their successors as well because as of now there’s nothing preventing their all of their hard work and aspirations from being discarded for another rehash of pitiful underpower rebels vs the big bad Empire with their ridiculous amount of Death Stars that they can just pull out of thin air.

And I rather watch Rey and co. succeed than waste time on how the group before them fumbled the ball in every way.

 

No, but the NJO did kill off Chewie, have Han become a depressed alcoholic, get Leia basically impeached and thrown out of office, crush Han & Leia's kids (one dead good guy, one unrepentant Dark Sider, one traumatized heroine), make Luke a vengeful widower, leave the Jedi disorganized, wipe out a whole bunch of planets, and leave the NR in the hands of an Imperial war criminal. A different method than the ST, yes, but the result was the same: our happy ending was needlessly short-circuited.

 

I'd prefer Vision of the Future as the finish. The good guys win. The Imperials & the NR are finally headed towards a real peace. And the next generation looks like they'll be OK. Sure, there will be challenges to come, but we're left feeling happy.

 

A lot of defenders of the ST like to use the "well the EU did it" excuse.
Which masks the bigger issue...the EU is not a continuation of a movie saga. But it's own thing, in its own collective universe.
"well the EU did similar" is not a get out clause, the Disney sale was a chance to do things better, and things should have been done better.

 

The ST writers had a literal map made my Lucas and they chucked it over the cliff.

They had 40 years of EU stories to see what did and did not work to mine and they chucked those too. (Save for a few minor elements)

And they still ****ed it up. It’s all on them.

 

Say what you want about Legends, but even in the end when things got stupid dark because Troy Denning was given the lead, the OT3 are still alive, the Jedi Order founded by Luke is still going (with Luke having dozens of successfully trained students), Luke had a wife (she's killed by his dark side nephew, eek) and Jedi son, Han and Leia had three children, one went darkside and was killed by his own twin (but not before becoming the greatest Jedi of his generation, with a truly inspiring revelation and redemption of an entire species before Denning got his hands on him), one died a hero, and the other is alive, kicking, and a great Jedi in her own right. Chewie died saving the Jedi son who died a hero. It was a great death, and had me in tears. Han's son who went dark side also had a child before dying, so Han and Leia have a grandchild. Many of the Solo kids childhood friends, their gang, are still alive. Jacen going dark side was utter ****, but his story in the NJO is the greatest character story in Legends history.

There were several wars, and the OT3 won them all. They had many great moments, lots of great stories, lots of triumphs, lots of potential, lots of love between them. They didn't split up and become estranged. They didn't lose every last thing. Their lives weren't totally destroyed, nor were their legacies.

Han became a "depressed alcoholic" for like two books and maybe six months before coming out of it. He didn't become a low life criminal for six years, he kept helping people, and then he got back into the war effort. Oh, and he wasn't senselessly murdered by his own son. That's a big one.

I loved the NJO. I thought it was an amazing achievement. I enjoyed the hell out of it, even at it's darkest points, which were often quite compelling. Traitor, which might have been the darkest point of the series, might be the single best novel in all of Legends. I cried several times. I was emotionally caught up in the NJO series. It had a wonderfully inspiring, positive ending. Can't say the same about the ST, which was miserably boring and left me feeling detached and empty.

 

I'm not defending the ST. I'm saying it and the NJO took similar routes to the same destination: "Let's really pummel the heroes." And I wasn't left satisfied by either approach to an end I really disagreed with.

 

tbf, nothing in the ST was done well.

 

The sequels took the worst possible route with the story. They (Kennedy and Abrams) had access to all the original actors, they had the good will of the audience/fans, and they could do anything they wanted… it was a vast galaxy to explore… Mandalorian Wars, The Clone Wars II, the Organised Crime Syndicates, the Witches of Dathomir etc. But ultimately they chose to tell the most vapid and uninteresting story possible… and used the OT3 to bolster the insipid new characters at their expense. The ST is an exercise in hubris, cynicism and the ‘mechanical reproduction’ (Walter Benjamin) of something once great and original, to turn it into nothing more than a McDonalds Happy Meal. I only hope that those with the keys to Star Wars never make those mistakes again.

 

Luke is hands down the worst of the lot
-coward
-pathetic loser
-terrible brother, family member, friend and is fine with leaving the Galaxy to rot
-tries to murder his nephew....completly out of character for someone who thought his 20 year+ violent mass murdering father can be redeemed and stood up to the Emperor with no fear. That character dev out the window for a moment of madness that never made any sense.
-did Yoda+Kenobi sacrifice everything just for him.....YIKES
-such a great guy that he blames everyone for his mistakes including all the Jedi and even his masters, like WOW
-terrible Jedi who doesn't seem to even understand what a Jedi is. Everything he blabbers about them isn't even accurate. And those same Jedi you crap on, at least they never gave up on the Galaxy like you did......
-suicidal and got his wish he died
-failure is the greatest teacher......dies without ever fixing any of his mistakes
-Only thing he passes down to Rey are his mistakes that he has no interest to fix
-his 2 half assed lessons.....that didn't teach anything. And officially Rey is his final studen, LOL.
-what a bad guy trying to break up 2 lovers speaking together.
-made into being the villain of Kylo's story and even Rey attacks him for it too
-projects a fake image of himself so that no one can see the loser he's become and seems to have learned nothing.
-gets a super pathetic death from using force projection, that was really bad and pretty illogical. And the character who used to be about his family/friends end up dying alone. Imagine every character in Saga dies with someone around except for Luke, even the bad guys. He died like he lived.....
-in canon, Palpatine was SUPER happy that Luke took himself out of the picture without having to do anything. He's basically a Sith Agent at this point.
-in canon, Luke admits
Shortly before his death, Skywalker wrote in his book The Secrets of the Jedi acknowledging that if perhaps he had remained active as a Jedi Master, wielding his lightsaber and actively fighting against his nephew, for the years he was in exile instead, he probably could have prevented the rise of the First Order and the destruction of the New Republic.[

conclusion there is NOTHING reedemable about Luke Skywalker in ST. He's a terrible person and not likeable.

JJ Abrams=I didn't know what to do with Luke as he constantly took over whenever he showerd up. AKA I don't know how to write a Gandalf like character.
Johnson=I killed Luke because I didn't know what to do with him.
"honestly, thinking about the number of characters we have on our plate going into the next movie [...] it just vaguely seemed good to me that putting Luke in another realm could open possibilities for his possible involvement in the next one. As opposed to him just being another character that had to be juggled into the plot, if that makes sense."

These are supposed to be the ones who steer the ST ship.......Basically they destroyed the Greastest SW character out of INCOMPETENCE. And highlights how neither should have been anywhere near the ST.

its why I don't really care about any Luke-Han-Leia stories between VI and VII because there is nothing to tell, it won't amount to anything. I rather they just go post IX than more stories about characters that are ruined beyond repair.

 

Same here. The NJO years were probably the pinnacle of my fandom.

Having experienced that story, I'm actually okay with just "forgiving" the ST these days even though upon release I found it mostly ridiculous and a wasted opportunity at best. The legacy of the characters can be intact even though the actors didn't get a sendoff that resonated with me very much.

 

Every time the EU gets mentioned I remember I have those books on my TBR because it sounds like Jaina Solo would have made a better first female Jedi protagonist than Rey.

 

I really need to start on the series.

 

I still that feeling of... potential in the old EU. It was overall a mess, stretched out over decades, but generally there were gradually more characters (students, children, new allies and friends) over the years while (most of) the OT characters got to mostly retire, particularly Luke, Han and Leia.

The sequels are just missed opportunities, ending so many stories and for so little. Whenever they do someday continue pushing the timeline forward I just hope something can be salvaged.

 

I would be very surprised if Filoni isnt planning to make the ST Movies takes place in an Alternate Future doing a Retcon in Star Wars is not something Strange not in a World where the Celestials, Mortis,World Between Worlds, Bendu, the Force Priestesses exist TCW Show is Canon to the Disney Universe and in that Show the Father tells to Anakin that he is indeed the Chosen One and that he will bring Balance to the Force so was the Father wrong or lying? in TCW and Rebels Palpatine do Strange Rituals and the Son says that by Nature the Future can be changed i will be very surprised if Filoni wants to continue with ST Movies Timeline the Force Priestesses tells to Yoda about Luke birth and that he will be important for the Final Victory

 

That's not going to happen. The ST will be referenced, some characters will cameo I'm sure, but it will be largely bypassed in terms of the bigger live action SW content going forwards IMO. It won't be hard retconned.... although some things may be given a wider context.

 

Not getting a hard retcon is probably the best the ST can realistically hope for at this point.

 

I feel like that the Fans who like the ST are Fans who dont like the Original Star Wars Heroes or dont like the OT Era that much so they have no problem in the way Luke, Han and Leia are characterized in those Movies but maybe im wrong for me the ST Movies are some Strange Dark Future or Universe i can tolerate those Movies more if i see them that way but i do not Consider them as the True Continuation of the Original Trilogy if in the Ahsoka Show nothing happens so i would assume that the ST Movies are here to stay its hard for me to get excited about Mandalorian or other New Republic Era Shows if i know well that the ST is going to happen and that the destination of those Shows is the ST if they want to justifying the events of the ST for me its fine but even with doing Retcons or New Shows some Fans will not continue to like the ST Era but its fine too

Legends Luke lived more Tragedies fought in more Wars and he never Give Up and Legends Luke Jedi Order was still active 100 Years later we dont know how many Tragedies or Wars New Canon Luke had so for his character in TLJ make sense