Andor Andor Episode 2.02 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Just like the first episode of this season, I gave this an 8/10. Lots of things going on, and they all fit in with the overall story. My full review was posted earlier.

 

Maybe the intent was "Dan Cortese in Space" and these guys passed the test?

 

The only thing I still don't understand about the Yavin idiots storyline is why did they strip the ship Cassian and Porko came to Yavin on to the point where it was no longer functional? if they'd only left it alone, they would have had a ship to escape on.

 

The whole point is that the Rebels are currently full of idiots without proper organization, juxtaposed to the effective, but rigid Imperial order.

It's showing just how out of their depth new rebellions typically are.

 

I was under the impression that someone or something else wrecked the ship, like the monster in the jungle.

 

Yeah. There was no indication that the ship was stripped by them. In fact, one of the RIBs said that they lost 6 ships and 40 fighters in the attack. And we never heard who attacked.

 

The idiot rebel brigade didn't bother me a lot. I do wish that the writers had included an explanation for why they were that stupid. The woman who got shot early on seemed like she was the least dumb imo.

 

They were completely frazzled because most of their brigade had just been killed, including their leader, and they were stranded on a planet with massive beasts that were hunting them. I think the voices of the two main actors is what throws a lot of viewers off. They simply sound like doofuses. lol

 

Interesting. I still think the Yavin scenes are written in a way that's a bit confusing. It's the first time this has ever been true in Andor, which is why I said in another thread that I think this is the most-flawed arc of the series, relatively (while still being utterly excellent).

You'd think who or what attacked the Maya Pei camp would be something we'd want to get some clarity on, particularly since this is the future site of the secret rebel base. If an enemy of Maya Pei knows this location as a staging point for rebel activity, you'd think it wouldn't be the most secure choice for the future Alliance.

To be clear, I like that things don't have to always be explained, especially given the time jumps of the series (which will perhaps eventually be filled in by storytelling in other media), but certain things, on a case-by-case basis, if not clarified, end up being a bit disorienting.

 

I hate to be that guy who says "you just don't understand," but I've had a certain amount of experience in, let's say, remote conflict zones with minimal leadership or oversight involved, and where panic sets in, and...the Rebel Idiots Brigade is very realistic. Uncomfortably so. And I do think the chaos shown there contrasts really well with the organized oppressive designs of the Empire, at this point. It was a bold and risky choice, and I applaud Girloy for going there. It's part of a realistic tapestry that elevates this first three episodes above its equivalent in S1, in my view.

 

Or perhaps we just disagree.

I'm not saying it's not realistic. I'm saying there's a difference--a thin line--between capturing the confusion of a group and yourself being confusing in your storytelling. I just think this particular storyline suffers a bit from being chaotic in its own storytelling. A minor flaw at most.

In another note, I love that all the fauna of Yavin 4 has always been very "prehistoric." I think I recall a flying reptile in the old Legends "Darklighter" storyline from the Dark Horse Empire title. Cretaceous Park!

 

I'm pretty sure the attack occurred elsewhere, and they retreated to Yavin. They got to that site in a ship that they guy's brother took off in and never came back. It could have theoretically been from another part of the planet, but I see no good reason to assume so. If Yavin has been successfully used as a safe retreat for a rebel group that has now been wiped out, it seems really well suited to be used as a staging point for Rebel activity in the future.

 

I wasn't responding to you, so there's no disagreement. Responding to you now, I'd say the chaos, the confusion, and the not knowing what really happened to them was a central part of the point. Lack of trust, lack of unity, lack of transparency, lack of leadership, lack of reliable information (not just on Yavin, but regarding the ship Cassian had to steal, which was the wrong one due to poor information). All these things are an enemy to the rebellion at this point. Had the group told Cassian what had happened, it wouldn't be realistic to the situation, and it would hurt the whole point of the detour.

I thought it was strongly implied that the attack happened on another planet or moon. And that they were dropped off on Yavin IV temporrarily while one of their brigade searched for survivors on the planet where the attack happened. That's why, I think, they weren't at all prepared for the environment.

 

That seems like a pretty complicated series of assumptions you're making. I'll have to examine the dialogue more closely, but I didn't see any strong implication one way or the other about where the attack occurred.

Just to be clear since I don't mean to come off as being contrarian: your explanation makes sense and makes the whole plotline make more sense to me, I just didn't get it clearly from the episodes, and I've now watched the Yavin storyline twice.

 

Another problem the RIB was facing was lack of food. Somebody mentioned they hadn't eaten in 2 days, and it looked like they didn't have much water either. That's going to have bad effects on people's judgment and mood.

 

Something I just realized: if the attack on the Maya Pei brigade didn't take place on Yavin 4, how did Cassian and Porko's ship get damaged? You see, the more you think about it, things still don't quite make sense.

 

I agree with this. I'm one of the few it seems that has zero problem with the "Idiot Brigade."

Not only is it realistic, but it's important for people to understand. Gilroy is illustrating why it's can be so difficult to effectively resist oppressive governments. Discipline and focus are in short supply, and ego and the instinct for survival rule.

 

I think the idea is that with their leader killed, they rapidly descended into confusion and infighting.

 

It just doesn't surprise me at all. Everyday I see leftists and liberals arguing over the most absurd things; meanwhile, as they argue, the government is getting ready to lock them up.

Unity between people with strong beliefs is nearly impossible with certain personalities.

I will agree though that these scenes become more satire than strict realism. I just don't care about the stylistic shift.

 

I don’t get the objection people have to the rock, paper, scissors. They recognize that the group being fractured is worsening their already dire circumstances, but neither is willing to submit and concede leadership to the other side. They need to unite for everyone’s betterment, but can’t seem to resolve their differences through talking it out. The Rock Paper Scissors challenge allows the loser to feel like they were given a fair chance and failed while the new leader succeeded when presented with the same opportunity, which is important for lowering resentment to workable levels where the gains from working cooperatively are worth the annoyance of having to listen to your superiors in the hierarchy, which basis that all human organizations are built on. It may seem silly but it works, and having tried some of the alternative methods of conflict resolution, “silliness” suddenly doesn’t sound like too bad of a cost to pay to work things out.


TLDR: solving your problems with rock paper scissors sounds silly until you try solving your problems with shooting your friends, then it doesn’t sound so bad in comparison

 

overall I love everything thing in this show and so I'm willing to overlook some things I could nitpick about like these Rebels in the past couple episodes

I do think they could've handled them better though, for example if they had included Maya Pei, maybe injured or something and unable to effectively lead and keep everyone together and on the same page, and which then results in the rebel feud/mutiny etc..

still getting the point across that this time period in the rebellion is messy and disorganized and full of chaos, but still maybe better than what was portrayed

 

Maya Pei being MIA is part of the set up though. She could be coming back tomorrow, she could be dead and never coming back, she could be alive but trapped and need them to come rescue her. All of those require different responses from the group and her absence was unanticipated so she left them with no input on how to handle such a situation. This is why they’re such a mess, with different people pulling in different directions.

 

totally, if we see Maya Pei in future episodes that would definitely go a long way in satisfying my personal nitpicks about this