Andor Andor Episode 2.08 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Fantastic episode. The build up, the tension, all just done so well.

Oh Syril. What a well written end. I hoped he'd switch sides or die trying to help the Ghormans, but instead he feels so betrayed and in shock that he helps nobody. Only can find his easy scapegoat in Cassian which unfortunately led to his demise, but worse a blow to his ego. So tragic it was the Ghorman rebel leader who kills him considering Syril probably would've been very remorseful to him but is only seen as a traitor.

 

One of the best episodes of I’ve seen of any show, ever. Phenomenal.

 

Damn that was brutal massacre from The Empire, shooting their own, sending BX security droids on Civilians. One of them being K2 ?
Brutal fight between Syril and Cassian rip Syril

 

This was one of the best episodes of TV I have ever watched. Gilroy and co. deserve all their kudos.

 

There are no words. I don't know when I last felt such an emotional dose. Poor Syril and Eedy.

 

Wow. That may be the most intense piece of Star Wars visual media ever produced, or, at least very, very high on the (as of yet un-tabulated) list.

I'm a bit sad for Dedra and Cyril, those crazy kids. And even, a bit, more disappointed by Cyril's end. I was expecting that he might not survive the day, but had some glimmer of hope that he might join the Rebellion (or of being the one to get Cassian out of Palmo). I know it would be too cliche, and I'm typically very much against the bad guys suddenly becoming good, but Andor, as a show/story is a slow burn and Cyril's been on Ghorman for two years and has clearly gained an affinity for the Ghor. He's always been about "order" and "justice," and we see him realizing that there's nothing just about the way -- and the what -- the Empire is doing things. Had he not reverted into his old hatred for Andor*, he could've, over time (i.e. the next one-year jump to the series' final arc), grown further as a character and learned to "put up with" the disorder of the Rebellion to help fight the injustice of the empire. But then, there's something to be said for his abrupt, pointless end too.

*It could be argued that it was also due to one last shred of love he had for Dedra, but that's a stretch, as he certainly couldn't see who Cassian was aiming at, making his focus and intent purely one of revenge against Andor, for himself (again) alone.

 

Episode 8 and 9 were hands down the best Star Wars I've seen since the OT, especially Ep. 8. My god! That was incredible.

 

Gilroy really landed the impact from all that buildup. Not just with the massacre, but also with Syril. Left in the dark so long about the true intentions of the Empire on Ghorman. Seeing what all his work has really led up to. The fight between Cassian and Syril was just a great one, too. I feel it was right for Rylanz to get the final kill on Syril, too. Even if he was left in the dark, he was still playing a major part in the downfall of Ghorman.

 

That was brutal, such a realistic mass violence scene in Star Wars, really quite heavy. Actors were so good, Dedra and Syril especially. It's really tragic all of it, what happened to Syril. He could've been hero in other time and age but he became villain, or more like a tool of villains and he realized it last minute, but then his obsession to Andor took the best of him... it's really a tragedy. I think he was not really bad guy in the end. Fascinating character.

Even Dedra shows some remorse, but she is really nazi here (again), her justification however seems unfortunately right as well. "They are doing it anyway" Sure she is right about that. If not for her there will be some other cog in the fascist system in her place, she has lost hope there could ever be anything stopping it, so best to be on the winning side and reap the rewards. She is evil but not fully evil, she does feel remorse and worry and such. She is still human. It's fascinating to see what they are going to do with her now or was this the end of her story.

With Luthen and Mon, these characters have been my favorite to follow. Bix and Andor himself not so much. I wonder if we ever see B2EMO again, he was left on Mina Rau and that was bit odd. I liked that droid. Now we have K2 though.

 

“They’re going to do it anyway” is just a rationalization to make herself feel better. She’s not just a bystander who has no agency. She’s actively participating in and expects to be rewarded for genocide. She’s %100 evil.

 

I wishes that Syril had killed Dedra

 

But that is also quite true is it not, It's not like her death would stop the empire. She is not free to make her choices, Partagaz and Krennic are above her, Yularen and Palpatine eventually. She is evil, she is active, she is ruthless, she is responsible but she is in the system that works with or without her. It's not that she is bystander or anyway innocent. She is guilty of horrible crimes, but still I think only person in SW who is 100% evil is Palpatine.

She is there well over 90 percent though, maybe 99, but that one percent may still matter in the end. For Vader it mattered. So even for her redemption is still possible, it's always possible, it doesn't wipe out the crimes, but that is a choice, agency she is now willfully giving away. Pretending that there is no choice. It's quite heavy and hard. I like it how they portray her as still human, evil, flawed fascist, but still human in way Palpatine no longer is.

 

I think at this point we accept that Andor is the best Star Wars full stop!

 

I actually thought Syril was going to kill Dedra right there then go out to the Plaza and die trying to help Ghormans. How it played out was better though.

 

She absolutely does have the freedom to make her own choices. She can tell her superiors that she’s not going to it. That might lead to her death but it’s still her choice to participate. The Rebels are willing to die for the hope of defeating the Empire. There’s a great line Magneto says in X-Men: First Class:

“I’ve been at the mercy of men just following orders.”

Following orders isn’t an excuse for evil. It doesn’t make you any less responsible for your choice to participate in it.

 

I agree to a certain degree. I'll always love the OT but the acting and a lot of the dialogue on Andor is head and shoulders above what we got in the OT. Plus, the special editions detract from the original greatness of the OT. I'd rather rewatch Andor than the OT at this point in my life which makes sense. The OT was for kids and loved it as as a kid. Andor is for adults.

 

Agreed -- Syril is so fascinating. He's right on the cusp, perhaps, of potentially truly joining the cause... then it's gone and so is he.

As for B2, I wrestle with "wanting to know" and at the same time recognizing that it's probably better not having a neatly tied bow on everything. I suppose B2 lived melancholily ever after...

The one thing I would change about Andor is the real-world swearing. It wasn't a big deal in the first few episodes of season one, but season two has so much more of it. I'm not bothered by the words or the kid-friendliness of it -- it's just that, to me, it takes the show out of the world of Star Wars for a brief moment. Bail's line in Ep. 9 is the most glaring, IMO.

 

Syril killing Dedra would require more moral courage than he’s been capable of showing.

Syril’s whole story so far has been about a man who was not quite enough. He wasn’t smart enough to avoid the incident on Ferrix that led to his firing and Preox Morlana losing the security contract. He wasn’t secure enough to find a job after that fact and had to rely on his uncles contacts. He wasn’t charming enough to get the ISB to bring him in on the search for Axis; and in the end, he was brave enough to wrap his hands around the throat of a woman who loved him* but he wasn’t brave enough to fight for people who he knew were innocent. He wasn’t brave enough to even warn them. And when the bolts were flying and men, women and children were dying, he was too much of a coward to even try and save them.

(* Yes I know Dedra lied to and gaslit him to the point that it definitely counts as emotional abuse, not excusing her at all for that.)

Rest in Peace Syril. You died as you lived. Never being good enough.

 

I could see Luthen and Dedra taking each other out in the last arc but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see either of them in the last few episodes.

 

I think we need to see Luthen. Also who is he in the first place? I think we should be told a tad bit more of both. Especially Luthen. He seems to be character who has to die in this show.

 

DP due to lag

 

Luthen and Dedra have been circling each other for the entire series so it would be fitting if they finally had a face to face confrontation and also fitting if they end up killing each other.

I'm really interested in knowing how they're going to end this thing. Specifically, knowing that the last episode ends minutes before Rogue One begins how will Gilroy craft an finale that feels, well final? I hope it doesn't in a way that makes you feel like you need to watch Rogue One to get the finale.

 

Halfway thru the action I had to pause the show and make sure I was indeed watching episode 8 and that I hadn't clicked on episode 9 by accident as there was so much going on it felt like the finale of the arc. What an episode!

 

I do wish we had little cameos from the Emperor and Vader. Imagine their dialogue written by Tony Gilroy.