Any speculation on the identities of the 13 warlords that Daala gassed at Tsoss Beacon aside from Teradoc, Harrsk, Delvardus, and Yzu? That leaves nine unidentified. (@Thrawn McEwok, I feel this topic is right up your alley)
Fun question! Well, it's much easier to say who wasn't among them. Above all else: Force-users. Apart from a few Inquisitors stuck on Prakith, none of the Emperor's Dark Adepts seem to have survived Byss beyond Hethrir, Xecr Nist, Jeng Droga, and possibly Ti'az and the one other unidentified Adept from Empire's End. In any event, Nist died in prison soon after the death of the Emperor (withdrawal symptoms?) and only Droga escaped the New Republic, ending up nowhere near the Deep Core. Tremayne may or may not have still been active in that time. Darksaber makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of any surviving Dark Siders still aligned with the forces that Daala and Pellaeon amalgamated into a new Empire, nor present among the leadership or even general forces of the Warlords that did respond to Daala's summons. None of the Warlords present were Force users (had any been, it would have been too tempting for KJA to resist using them in the story against the Jedi), and the very lack of any sort of Force-ful actions against Daala and Pellaeon in response to their betrayal is itself additional proof that none of the Warlords were Force users or Dark Siders. We also know that Foga Brill, Grand Moff Gann, Shargael,Tethys, and a few other known Warlords cannot have been among them- they were all still alive much later. They must have either ignored Daala's summons, or not even been able to make it, as was probably the case for Gann. None were female, as Darksaber explicitly notes. Feyet Kiez seems to have perished previously during the Imperial Mutiny, along with Whelm (assuming that he hadn't outright been executed by the Emperor reborn). Now, for who could have been among them, we have to turn to known Admirals, Generals, and Moffs. There aren't many, and really most of the Warlords present at Tsoss must have been fairly obscure and only in any position of power as a result of the destruction of Byss and the collapse of the Crimson Empire. Nobody who had legitimately been above the Rank of High Admiral, nor any former Advisors. We do know some of their titles from Darksaber: "High Moff" (suggesting some sort of Moff or gubernatorial background), "Honored Overlord", and interestingly enough for Sinrebirth's One Canon at least one "Supreme Leader". We do know that an Admiral Comeg commanded an Imperial fleet of some sort within the Deep Core, and nothing really rules him out from being one of the Tsoss Warlords. Inos Fonada could be another, as he is known to have flown to the Deep Core.
Unfortunately, I can't think of any named warlord whose fate was ambiguous enough to fit. Everyone I can think of either died before Tsoss Beacon and so couldn't have been there, or they died after Tsoss Beacon and so couldn't have been there. Can't think of any whose fates were left open-ended enough that they might've been among the unnamed dead. Zsinj: dead at Dathomir. Krennel: dead at Ciutric. Teradoc (the other one): dead on Ryvester. Kaine: according to the Wook, dead at some place called Palanhi. The only one I can think of is Tavira, and she wasn't really a warlord, she was the next tier down. Though vastly cooler than most of them.
I can think of a couple of figures who would work out well as Deep Core warlords: - General Arndall Lott: He strikes me as the most likely candidate. Not only did he establish a warlord faction, the fate of which was never elaborated upon, he also developed slave rigging systems that were used in the TIE/D fighters employed by the Dark Empire. Given that Palpatine had access to his technology, it seems likely that he was active in the Deep Core at the time. - General Alix Balan: Led the conquest of Coruscant during the Dark Empire's emergence from the Deep Core. Interestingly, Abel noted on the forums that he considered writing an entry on Balan for Despoilers of an Empire. - Moff Relans: A figure active in the Deep Core after the Battle of Endor. Although he's suggested to be a warlord, it's strongly implied in Heroes & Rogues that he serves the reborn Emperor. - Moff Par Lankin: There's no actual evidence to support this one. But since we're speculating, there's a long tradition of major warlords being ejected from their holdings and fleeing to the Deep Core. Since he's one of the most significant warlords, with appearances in the Atlas and Warfare, making him one of the 13 seems a neat way to tie up his fate.
This is what I would guess --- that most of them hadn't been Warlords of any kind prior to Dark Empire, but that after the big collapse following Palpatine's final death, a bunch of fleet commanders found themselves unwilling to follow Jax and ended up just fleeing into the Core with their assets. The Imperial military was the biggest it had been in years at that time, and there were plenty of fleets to go around.
I imagine they were either warlords from the outer rim or deep core, or pockets within NR territory. It doesn’t make sense they would be subordinates of other warlords and for Daala to consolidate things. As for Tremayne-he is the one dark side adept IIRC who never has a confirmed canon death. My headcanon was that he went into retirement. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the people at Tsoss Beacon were not even active warlords, but basically retired generals and admirals who maybe controlled a planet or something and who were invited at officially out of courtesy or because Daala appealed to them to show up for whatever reason considering them traitors.
I never speculate any more, I merely restrict myself to interpreting existing canon - and as people have observed there isn't that much of that here... That said, the reply by Jello and the response to that by @Vthuil made me grin. EDIT: removing my long response, which on re-reading feels too speculative for my standards. - The Imperial Ewok
Och. Just for you, I've reworked what I was going to say, to try to avoid any speculation... First, some questions: * @SheaHublin - do you have a precise quote confirming that all the warlords are male? As you say, we can use that to exclude Tavira. * Similarly, if anyone can quickly confirm what was said about Tremayne's connection with the Reborn, that would be useful, as he can also be excluded if he's implied to be still active after Darksaber. I'll admit they're two of my favourite Imperials, and I don't really imagine them fitting this context. Secondly, some observations: * Pellaeon tells Daala that he's managed to persuade a selection "of the strongest Imperial warlords" to attend the meeting. Some others presumably refused to attend. Possibly some came from outside the Deep Core. * In Children of the Jedi, Luke explains that the Empire has disintegrated into "six, maybe ten major fragments, ruled by warlords and Governors". * As @SheaHublin noted, while we don't know any of the names of the additional warlords, we do know several of their titles - "High Moffs, Honoured Overlords, Supreme Leaders, and other commanders with similarly pompous yet meaningless titles". * You can play all kind of games with the numbers of ships, but - apart from noting that you can actually increase the number of warlords to fifteen - I'm not going to speculate about this. * Daala makes a specific reference to "blastboats" among the resources of the warlords, alongside capital ships and huge numbers of stormtroopers. The known examples of Deep Core warships also include small types such as the 100m Vibre-class "cruiser" from the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, specifically designed as a raider, and the 150m Adz-class destroyer from Tyrant's Test and Cracken's Threat Dossier. Also in Tyrant's Test, the wreck of the "light cruiser" Gorath is identifed by NR officers as a Strike-class cruiser, but the ship is implied to be less than 300m long rather than the normal 450m of that type. * Grand Moff Gann was first mentioned in Tyrant's Test as the superior of Governor Foga Brill of Prakith in 17 ABY, then characterised in WARFARE as an actual veteran Grand Moff with a large oversector in the Deep Core which he's governed since 19 BBY... but he's not at the warlordofference - I had an explanation in mind for WARFARE, but that never came anywhere near official approval, so your guess as to why is as good as mine! And now for something completely different! Without any comment on whether they "might" be at the warlordofference (because there's no evidence), I'm going to make a list of known commanders and warlords who are reported in control of Imperial enclaves, but who don't seem to be mentioned after 12 ABY. Some of these have already been mentioned, and others are welcome to add additional names... Known warlords and commanders in the Deep Core: * Moff Relans, mentioned by @Grand Admiral Paxis - characterised in Heroes & Rogues as a Deep Core commander representing what some regard as the "true Empire" some years after Palpatine's fall. However, the timeframe in which Relans is acting isn't specified precisely, and he may belong in the Imperial Core / Second Imperium after Daala's purge... * Admiral Inos Fonada, also originally from Heroes & Rogues, who was originally based in the Expansion Region, but is last mentioned chronologically in WARFARE (Jason, not me!) relocating with his fleet to the Deep Core in anticipation of Shadow Hand. Known Warlords and Commanders whose location is unclear: * @SheaHublin has drawn attention to Admiral Comeg, mentioned in passing in The Dark Empire Sourcebook as an admiral with a "fleet in the Core", including at least one "prototype" World Devastator, prior to Shadow Hand - he might be inferred to be a Deep Core commander overseeing the fleet of them in Dark Empire, but this is unclear. * General Balan, also from the Dark Empire Sourcebook, a key figure in the Imperial recapture of Coruscant - suggested by @Grand Admiral Paxis. To save me digging out The Essential Atlas - did the book confirm that this campaign was was staged entirely from the Deep Core, and did the text name any of the "six former fleet commanders" involved? Known Warlords and Commanders outside the Deep Core: * Moff Feleea - controls a sector somewhere outside the Deep Core, which is used as the endpoint of a secret hyperlane to ship agents and materiel to and from Moff Relans' sector within the Deep Core (Heroes & Rogues). * General Lott - controls the planet Jardeen IV in the Expansion Region as of 3 ABY, in conjunction with Captain Iolan Gendarr of the ISD Reliance (Wanted by Cracken). * Moff Lankin - controls a sector in the Mid Rim as of 3 ABY (Wanted By Cracken). * Governor Serdif Tount - a notional subordinate of Moff Lankin in the Mid Rim, planetary governor of Rintonne but as of 3 ABY he also controls three additional systems which he conquered from the NR (Wanted by Cracken). * Moff Gronn - controls the remaining Imperial territory in Allied Tion Sector on the Outer Rim as of 10 ABY (Dark Empire Sourcebook). * Colonel Zel Johans - in garrison on Brintooin on the Outer Rim c. 11 ABY, under the notional rule of a Governor Thalkuss (Star Wars Adventure Journal #15). * Colonel Tomax Bren - remained with what had been Thrawn and Pellaeon's forces c. 11 ABY, presumably on the Outer Rim (Star Wars Adventure Journal #15). Anyone got any other names to add to the list? Or any references to any of these ones after Darksaber...? All of which is a lot of tangenting about a topic of which we know strictly nothing at all. EDIT: @JediFett10 - crossposted with you. I did delete that version for a reason... but now everyone can compare the rubbish waffly version with what I wrote after I'd had tea. - The Imperial Ewok
Thnks @Thrawn McEwok, but I've already decided to preserve my post for historical value and further debate.
No worries. I already edited my post to remove the part you're replying to, which might confuse everyone. (to clarify for everyone else, my initial instinct was to ask for the quote to be removed, but I decided that I really had no right to do that, so in the unlikely even that anyone cares, you can all compare the versions and see the stuff I decided was unclear, or wasn't worth including. )... - The Imperial Ewok
Edited to add the following: Will you please stop editing your post when I'm busy writing my response, as it's super annoying and frustrating. Also, your original post was not some "rubbish waffly version" but rather an informative, well written piece in my most humble opinion, so please don't ever doubt yourself when writing!!
Well, at least this has degenerated into bad comedy now. And I will stick with my opinion that the original version was a "rubbish waffly version" and contained more speculation than I'm comfortable with for reasons of self-imposed pedantry. But no-one else is obliged to agree!! - The Imperial Ewok
@Thrawn McEwok : Grand Moff Gann was covered in the "Warlords" essay - he was under Yzu's territory at the time and therefore wasn't present at the meeting. Afterwards, he was still just a figurehead, propped up by Moff Brill.
Yeah, I'd failed to find that reference again, but that fits with what I'd had in my metaphorical back-pocket (though I have no idea whether any discussions I was involved in for WARFARE contributed to this). Although Cracken's Threat Dossier indicates he's still got some sort of administration / intelligence aparatus, Gann's authority was largely a rubber stamp, and the military power was in the hands of the technically-subordinate military commander(s). This was also the case for High Admiral Teradoc, who was technically the Sector Group fleet commander for Grand Moff Selit, although he put him "under house arrest" (placed a heavy guard around his palace on Centares?) and then ignored him. - The Imperial Ewok
@Thrawn McEwok The exact quote that confirms the 13 Warlords present at Tsoss were all male is how Daala collectively addresses them as such once they all arrived in system: (Emphasis added). There's also the general safe assumption of no high-ranking females at all being present, particularly in light of how Kyp, Dorsk, the Nar Shadaa information dealer, and Callista act surprised to see or hear women even in low-level positions. KJA really repeated it several times, as it's noted several times throughout the novel. If he intended any of the 13 at Tsoss to be female (and Dark Siders, for that matter) he would have made it clear. So, Tavira and Tremayne were definitely not there. No surviving Dark Siders were present, but perhaps one of the 13 was a representative of Prakith (and by extension the Inquisitors who hadn't previously become Inquestors in the Pentastar Alignment), or a representative of Grand Moff Gann. As an aside, of all the known Warlords still present in the Deep Core at the time, Gann stands as the one with the highest legitimately earned Rank, the most senior Imperial (he was one of the original 20 Moffs from the time of the late Republic and early Empire), and nominally the one with the most territory if the boundaries of the Sector 5 Oversector still encompassed the Deep Core. We can date Gann's death to 22 ABY or prior, thanks to an oft-overlooked line from Survivor's Quest where Mara Jade reflects on her continued survival: (Emphasis added). We know that Gann helped form the Second Imperium in 19 ABY, and per the above quote was dead by 22 ABY, even though the Second Imperium still existed. And as a further aside, that line also confirms the death of Grand Moff Disra, most assuredly executed for his deeds during the Camaas Document Crisis. So, Gann really was the last of the Grand Moffs.
As @blackmyron remarked above, this appears to have been Admiral Malfkla Yzu, the only named warlord added to the list since Darksaber. Nifty catch, though!! D That argument from grammar could be dodged around if necessary by just saying Daala wasn't paying attention (just as female Imperials have always been a thing - right back to GL's ANH background notes - irrespective of whatever people like Daala and Kyp think), but as things stand, this is good enough for me. I will, however, use the opportunity to question the exact numbers involved in the warlordofference. As Daala and Pellaeon have essentially usurped command of Harrsk and Teradoc's forces, I am not certain that they should be numbered among the warlords who arrive with their "fleets", potentially raising the total to fifteen. The observation that the Grand Moffs appear to have all been taken out by 22 ABY is a good one - Zsinj (Quelii) and Kaine (Oversector Outer), both killed in battle, Nivers, Wilkadon and Vorru captured in raids led by Wedge (the first two on the Outer Rim, recorded in Spadja Sector and Cegul Sector respectively, Vorru being the former Grand Moff of Corellia). Was the NR kidnapping Grand Moffs and then putting them before firing squads? Not a fan... The other ones I know of as active after the Glove novels ( ) are Muzzer and Dunhausen from the Mofference, and Selit (Greater Maldrood / Mid Rim) Teradoc's notional boss, about whom we seem to know nothing certain... anyone got any others? Strictly speaking, Disra may never have been a Grand Moff - he was added to the Central Committee of Grand Moffs shortly after Endor, but this may have been an innovative move taken by the Grand Moffs to co-opt an influential ordinary Moff (I have speculated in the past that this shift in representation would have ultimately allowed the Mofference to evolve into the Moff Council seen from 12 ABY onwards)... However, while that's just my speculation, I feel obliged to note that Mara's POV ultimately represents only the limits of her knowledge. There's a possibility that the demise of some Grand Moffs was faked - in the new continuity, Grand Moff Randd did this at Jakku and bugged out with a signiifcant Imperial fleet. Isard's collection of Imperial prisoners from the Lusankya may also include some Grand Moffs. And given the difficulty of getting information out of Imperial Core, Mara may not actually be aware that Grand Moff Gann is still in his palace on Odik II. Just playing with limits-of-knowledge stuff. - The Imperial Ewok
