181st Imperial Discussion Group: Tales of the Bounty Hunters!

Happy August, everybody! This month we will be discussing Tales of the Bounty Hunters edited by Kevin J. Anderson. Here's a link to the TF.n staff reviews.

Because there are five stories in the book and we've got about four weeks in the month, I've decided to do the first two stories this week, to kick things off, then I'll post about the next stories on a weekly basis. But please feel free to comment generally on the novel or mention the others in comparison if you want - it's not an iron-clad rule, just a way of keeping the thread going a little longer and spacing out discussion.

Also, since the stories are shorter, I found myself, when reading them, thinking slightly more in the specific than the general in terms of praise/criticisms. As a result I have fewer discussion points here because I didn't want it to turn into a personal review, but to speak in broad terms, and hopefully get some opinions rolling:

Therefore I Am: The Tale of IG-88 by Kevin J. Anderson.

- Lots of classic robotic scifi ideas here - duplicates, hostility to humans, the questions of sentience. How well does KJA convey them?

- Within the Star Wars universe, how well does this story fit in? Are the meetings with Darth Vader, the sequences on the Death Star too coincidental and unlikely or a nice tie to the movies?

- What did you think of the writing and structure?

Payback: The Tale of Dengar by Dave Wolverton.

- Dengar is one of the less well-known Bounty Hunters from that scene in ESB; again we have him tying into a classic scifi trope - as robots must grapple with sentience, a cyborg assassin must grapple with emotions. Again, what are your thoughts on how well this succeeds?

- Dengar has two primary emotional relationships in the story - with Han Solo and with Manaroo. The former is clearly the movie tie in, but does this feel over-obvious or organic? Similarly, the revenge and romance storylines begin to converge in terms of Dengar's emotional journey - is this handled well? And do we buy a romance for someone like him?

- What did you think of the writing and structure?

Take it away!

Next month we will be discussing Dark Rendezvous by Sean Stewart and after that we're free again, so come tell me what books we should do next, or I swear I'll start taking Hav's suggestions seriously! Though I believe the original plan was to head back and do the last four X-Wing novels, so we'll be doing those unless we have a lot of ideas for something else.

 

To this day, IG-88's tale remains, in my mind, the absolute worst offender of the Bantam trend that made really dumb retcons to the events of the films. A lot of the post-ROTJ Bantam work was all about worshipping the films, their planets, and the lines that were spoken in them, but the intra-film Bantam stuff was often worse. Rather than merely expand upon the background characters glimpsed briefly in the films, authors saw fit to make pretty large retcons to the movies' primary stories. Well, OK, maybe there were only a few cases. But IG-88's tale is definitely the worst.

Bib Fortuna studies with the B'omarr monks, so it turns out he was faking being affected by Luke's mind trick. Ehhhhhh that's kinda dumb, but whatever. The heroes of Yavin were actually helped off of the Death Star by a librarian and a crooked stormtrooper, and everybody and their brother onboard the station figured out the Thermal Exhaust Port flaw? Not Bantam, but still pretty dumb. But the Death Star II is actually controlled by IG-88's droid brain?

What the ****?

Was KJA just so desperate to make this story about a superweapon, that he decided to write what's possibly the dumbest plot of any SW story ever?

 

The Dengar tale was fine. The fact that one of the bounty hunters selected to chase Solo had a burning hatred of him actually makes sense to me. (His story is a little reminiscent of the EU story of General Grievous).

The IG-88 story... I'll say this about KJA. His stories tend to be firmly middle-of-the-road, neither bad nor good. (Even his co-authored Dune series aren't bad by themselves, only in that they have little or nothing to do with Frank Herbert's original series) But this short story is flat-out bad, bad, bad. I got a grim chuckle out of IG-88's petty tormenting of the Emperor, but the slapstick comedy was just ridiculous. An entire manufacturing planet that no one ever checks up on, the DSII run by a single computer equivalent to a droid brain - it's not even GODV bad-good.

 

Ugh, the IG-88 story makes GODV look like an issue of Legacy.

First of all, the kriffing EMPEROR, who broke the galaxy and rebuilt it in his image, turned the Chosen One to the Dark Side, and beat jedi Grand Master Yoda in a battle, is the victim of a practical joke. And a bad one at that.

And what was the point of taking over the Death Star? Was KJA that desperate to create an explosive (no pun intended) ending? Taking over a Star Destroyer would have had nearly the same impact, but KJA felt the need to change the climax of the Saga. What a terrible story, which ruined who I thought was the most interesting bounty hunter in the OT.

 

I personally like over the top stories, and I love Therfore I Am.

The best stories are The Last One Standing and The Prize Pelt. Last One Standing is must have material for any Boba Fett fan, and it gives an interesting twist on the whole bounty hunter ideal.

The Prize Pelt gets big points for actually portraying Bossk as a threat, rather than just the guy who does all the pratfalls around the other Bounty Hunters. He still loses of course, but is was very imaginative the ways the writer managed to show how Bossk and his passengers kept trying to screw each other over.

 

I thought this book was horribly silly.

At the risk of going off your plan, I'd like to also comment on the other stories too.

It also is one of those things that SHOULD be non-canon.

The IG-88 story is so ridiculous that it has almost permanently destroyed any serious use of IG-88 in Star Wars, despite his formally being the scariest bounty hunter after Boba Fett. The story is also a parody of itself because IG-88 ultimately manages to accomplish nothing despite the fact it was possessed of huge build-up.

I'm not sure I really approved of Dengar's story because it more or less completely removed any threat from the Dengar character. He became sort of the lovable doofus of the Star Wars set, completely and utterly shooting out any menace he might have had because he was an emotionless cyborg who found LOVE.

Oddly, Dengar was supposed to have died in Dark Force Rising but Dark Empire retconned it away I believe.

4-LOM and Zuckuss are another case that I feel sorry for. I actually love their characterizations. It's just that their story ended on such a wonderful high note that it sucks they had to eventually end up losing their redemptions. Which sucks because they're rather cool characters.

It's one of the reasons I hated the Bounty Hunter Trilogy.

Bossk, ironically, had a decent story but it was also a sequel to the old Adventure Journal short stories. I can only imagine the reader being completely clueless as to who these people are if they weren't regular readers of the quarterly WEG guides.

Boba Fett: Last Man Standing? This is a very acclaimed work. However, I'm not sure the story really makes any sense given Boba Fett in the movies is a stone cold murderer who works for Jabba the Hutt and Vader for money. Also, the word Mandalorian is never mentioned in the story.

It seems like someone wanted to do a Western character in space.

 

It's mentioned several times.

I've only read the last two stories in the anthology, so I'm gonna have to catch up before I join this discussion. But I have a feeling I could already answer the questions about how well KJA writes and conveys ideas.

 

Well I haven't re-read that one quite yet, so I DID get ahead of myself.

*shameful look*

But I was under the impression he was a Police Officer on Concord Dawn from my memories, never mentioned as a Mandalorian Supercommando or a member of the Mandalorian race.

Only his armor gets mentioned as Mandalorian.

 

Hahahahahahahahahaahaha.

Probably the only issue that's handled at all well is the duplication, which is at least an interesting twist. Generally, though, Therefore I Am is a textbook lesson on how not to write a Star Wars story. The plotline is utterly ridiculous -- automated planets that make all the galaxy's droids but never get paid attention to at all (hi there, equally atrocious The New Rebellion!), retconning nonsensical droid-revolution plans into the background of the films, completely destroying IG-88 as a credible character, and intruding brutishly and stupidly on the climax of the entire film saga with what's essentially a really bad stunt-gag. That's the kind of manuscript that, when turned in, shouldn't even prompt a request for a rewrite. The only necessary response is, "We'll find someone else, thanks."

There's just no level on which the story works, except as some kind of bad Tales-style Infinities joke story. Which . . . it isn't.

Compared to that, the Dengar story can't help but look good. The idea of Dengar as a supercharged emotionless cyborg is interesting, and his plight is examined effectively; even if it is a rather paint-by-numbers sci-fi idea, its introduction to Star Wars is cool enough, and much better than the usual hapless-schlub routine the EU tends to rope Dengar into. You need some angle to take on the examination of the emotions and, while love is hardly the most original take, it works. The real problem is the Solo connection; why does every top bounty hunter in the galaxy have to have some beef with Han Solo? It's especially annoying in the form of Dengar's epic, life-changing, deeply personal history with Han. It's really pointless, since at no point does Dengar actually come across Han. There's no big showdown. It might as well not even be in the story, for all the impact the connection has. Overall, it's a pretty average story. In this collection, it's only the third or fourth best out of five.

 

Weird fact, that was actually Dengar's original backstory!

I don't have it on me right now but in the original "Empire Strikes Back" supplement for WEG, it had Dengar's bio read something like this:

"All of the bounty hunters that Lord Vader recruited to hunt down the Millennium Falcon had impressive reputations already. All except one, Dengar was recruited because he had a personal motivation to hunt down Han Solo. Once a famed professional swoop jockie, Dengar had fame and fortune along with endorsements. However, he didn't have the crowd's respect. That belonged to a young swoop jock named Han Solo who participated in the much more popular but illegal races. Competing against Han Solo in an illegal match, Dengar was close to being beaten but tried a highly dangerous move in the crystal swamps that fried his head and required brain surgery. The event ruined his reputation forever and had him barred from all legal swoop events."

 

Wait... what are you thinking of? A different character, a different work? Dengar wasn't in Dark Force Rising.

I remember thinking it weird that the author of Payback chose to insert Dengar into Jabba's Palace, but I guess Dengar actually was in Jabba's Palace, wasn't he? A background character in Return of the Jedi. I've always been intrigued by the Dengar-Fett relationship that Payback set up, and I really enjoyed seeing it touched on when I picked up Twin Engines of Destruction a few years back. I've always wondered if it's explored enough in Bounty Hunter Wars to make that trilogy worth reading...

 

Not many Bounty Hunters named Dengar shot in the head by Mara Jade in DFR.

 

So, first off, I feel I should apologise to the guy who liked the IG-88 story because I'm about to rip it a new one. I do understand that there's something to be said for over the top stories, and honestly, I think that there are some interesting ideas here. I mean, to start with, IG-88 copying himself and not considering the copies rivals but literally other hims has the potential to create an interesting gestalt character. As does the idea that the droid factory is sparsely populated enough that it would be possibly to fake transmissions to pretend everything is continuing according to plan/use holo images from the "other side" of the planet for long enough to build an army. As, even, I guess, is the idea that to draw suspicion away from where he really is, one of him goes out and gains a public reputation as a bounty hunter.

However, none of these were well-executed. Let's start with the very beginning. I have an objection to the appropriation of "I think, therefore I am." The rest of the logical trees were marginally interesting, the logical route from his existence through to defending himself through to using his programming to do so - sure it's not mindblowing but it asserts a kind of logic to his behaviour and belief he is superior rather than pure psychotic insanity. However, "I think, therefore I am," is...not droid logic. That's human philosophy and very famously so. Working it into droid logic could potentially be very powerful, but in this instance, in style and substance, it was not at all like any other part of IG-88's self-awareness. It felt like a famous tagline cribbed for use in the moment - short hand to avoid character or explain why IG became sentient when the other droids did not. I can buy "he just did, this is the thing you buy for the premise of the story," but not when the author is simultaneously attempting to make it seem like a logical progression that actually starts from...nothing. Partly it's just because "I think, therefore I am," is essentially an assertion of his philosophical existence, and the next line doesn't really address why the fact of existing really means he has to do whatever else he's up to. A better start would have been a similar line but one that at least applied to IG-88. Something about sentience meaning he wanted to survive, or that he was unique and therefore needed to survive. I don't know but something better.

I'm aware I'm probably the only person obsessed with this point, but reading it, it really bothered me. I'll try to go on to some more general stuff now.

Even for KJA, the writing seemed dull and childish. And nothing seemed to go anywhere.

IG is fascinated by Vader. This makes sense given his partially mechanical nature. But nothing comes of this. Vader visits the planet and is tricked by IG-88 and then leaves.

Everything is overly convenient. In an enormous galaxy, the same human droid designers are involved in the Death Star construction. Vader decides to personally oversee this one mission to the droid planet which is supposed to be very out of the way. I know Vader has a history of personally overseeing things, but equally, in the context of all the other coincidences, it's a bridge too far. What happens to IG-72?

I understand that they wanted the droid factory to continue functioning so their cover was not blown. But 1) the secret droid programming in the droids being shipped out across the universe never really comes to anything. I mean, okay, he NOTICES a droid in Cloud City which has that programming, and maybe that's an entertaining retcon for why it was rude to Threepio, but...it goes nowhere. And 2) given their obsession with copying themselves, and that they now have an entire PLANET at their disposal, surely they could start retasking some areas of the planet to build copies of themselves without blowing said cover? I'm confused as to why this wasn't even mentioned.

Finally, we get IG-88 possessing the Death Star and then proceeding to do...absolutely nothing with that.

 

It'll hold up. The Last One Standing is one of the masterpieces of the EU.

 

I believe that the death of "Dengar" in DFR didn't require a retcon - IIRC, in the story itself they determine that the bounty hunter is using a fake ID and wasn't the real Dengar.

 

Also, let it be noted that the IG-88 story contradicted his appearence in Droids, which takes place in 15 BBY.

 

The loss of West End Games also explains some more problems.

IG-72 died in the adventure module, "Tatooine Manhunt" when your PCs blew him to hell.

Or mine did.

Yes, from now on, ALL Star Wars adventure modules should canonically have involved my tabletop heroes.

 

At the time Boba just wore Mandalorian armor, and wasn't considered to be a Mandalorian himself by the canon of the time. However, when the prequels rolled around, Boba was retconned as a Mando. In addition, the Concord Dawn angle was covered by the planet being a part of Mandalorian Space, and therefore nominally within the Mandalorian sphere of influence. Interestingly enough, IIRC, Boba was never actually intended to be a Mandalorian himself. The prequels and Jango's backstory just ended up necessitating that change.

I used the word "Mandalorian" waaaaaaaaay too many times in that post. Can I call them something else? Like Klingon?

Aaaaaaaaand it looks like that's my contribution to the TBH discussion. Unfortunately, I don't have the book, which is a pity, cuz I really want to read The Last One Standing. Ah well. I look forward to taking part in the DR discussion.

 

I literally guffawed after hearing about the events of Therefore I Am. The replication stuff is cool, but I consider the rest totally non-canon.

 

Marvel's the one exception to this, which had him as a Mandalorian commander in the Clone Wars. But every other source is as you say here.

 

I'm not sure I knew of any other sources to Boba Fett's past other than Marvel and Last Man Standing. Boba Fett is clearly angry as Hell at Jodo Kast in their encounter because Jodo Kast ISN'T a Mandalorian.

 

So he is angry at Kast for not being an actual Mandalorian? Huh, I always read that it was over identity theft, so to speak. Wasn't Kast actually pretending to be Boba Fett- while taking his bounties, glory, and occasionally sullying his name? However, with the more recent characterizations of Fett, the "you aren't a REAL Mando" angle would maybe make some sense. Dishonoring his father and all that, perhaps..

Edited for punctuation. It's a pet peeve of mine

 

He was angry at Jodo because he was "nobody", and he was bogarting Fett's reputation. I believe Charles is referring to the part where he says "You don't deserve that armor!", which is explained right afterwards as because he's a nobody, and Fett's better than him, not a Mandalorian thing.

Even as canon stands now, Fett shouldn't even associate himself with the Mandalorians until after Shysa dies.

 

So noted, but I actually refer to Fett's weird counting down of names of people he thinks Jodo Kast COULD BE. I always assumed they were Mandalorians, he's genuinely SURPRISED that Jodo Kast doesn't turn out to be somebody he knows but just some random dude.

Good points though.

Edit:

But yes, Dengar was originally supposed to be the one with the personal connection to Han Solo. It's just after the events of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, Boba Fett and Han Solo had much more immediate reasons to hate each other than a swoop accident 10 years ago that the majority of Star Wars fans had never heard of.

Honestly, I think part of the problem with Dengar confronting Han Solo is that it would take a ridiculously long time to explain it to Han Solo WHY he has such a deep and abiding hatred of him. Han Solo challenged Dengar to a swoop contest, beat him, and he had an accident. I think, instinctively, Dengar has to know that the horrific consequences of that event are in no way Han Solo's fault. A better target for his vengeance would be the Doctors who removed the emotion centers of his brain.

I do confess, part of what annoys me about later EU is the fact that the Boba Fett of Last Man Standing doesn't remotely resemble the one in Empire Strikes Back nor does he resemble the one of No Disintegrations, Please and neither character reference resembles the one of the Bounty Hunter Trilogy. I enjoy the Boba Fett of Last Man Standing because he's rigidly Lawful Evil. The one in the Bounty Hunter Trilogy is just complete scum.

I will state that this book's version of Bossk is the ONLY Bossk portrayal I can stand. I think every other portrayal of Bossk is horrible.

EVERY...LAST...ONE.

Well except for the Robot Chicken one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZePEYMkL70

 

Yup, he tells Kast "You're not Fenn... Dala... you're nobody!" It was a cool throwback to Marvel that acknowledged Fett's Mandalorian origins and respect for his brethren.