A debate on Extra-Marital Affairs

Hello folks, its been quite a while since I've been here there are alot of new faces, and some old ones too like Kimball and Ender_Sai. I began taking some intrest in this topic sometime ago after watching some Chick Flick with this topic. My first thoughts were why in chick flicks when a man has an extra-marital affair is he demonized, but a woman does its shown as a beautiful thing, its a forbidden love angel if you will? Mod's I apologize if this inappropriate, the Senate Floor is usually rather mature compared to many other message boards.

Anyhow, I began researching this topic on the internet as much as possible, I know it isnt necessarily the most reliable source but then again what is? I have read arguments against extra-marital relations, and in favor of them. I usually post and then wait to see what sort of responses the thread is getting before I argue on the apparently losing side.

On one side we have those who have been cheated on, Im not married but I had an ex-girlfriend cheat on me, I know it sucks. It especially sucked because she had previously said wait til marriage, so its not like I wasnt willing, but thats another story. They are often portrayed as being completley innocent victims, and indeed some of them are. It is argued that in no way should a man or woman sleep around other than with their husband, there is no excuse for such activities, that a lack of sex in the relationship is not a permit to find other ways to "get off". The more religious folks bring up the sanctity of marriage and that no where in the vows does it say your spouse should pleasure you every night, etc. I have found most people are in this catergory

Then on the other side we have those who are the ones having the affair. They are often portrayed as evil, heartless, vile people with a icy heart of coal. Which from my research, is far from the truth. Going to some Yahoo rooms and message boards Ive discussed this topic with married folks who admit to cheating on their spouse. There are a few slimeballs who just want to nail as many people as possible before they die, almost like its a contest or something. There are others on there who feel like if their husband or wife would just try to be a companion then they wouldnt be looking for love/lust. I had an easier time talking to these folks as they werent quite as full of violence and hateful remarks, so Im trying not sound biased towards them.

* When asked why dont they talk to their partners about their sex lives, many replied that talking about usually results in fighting about it. Their significant other usually takes it as criticism and the hateful words are soon unleashed. Needless to say that doesnt help matters.

* When asked why dont they file for a divorce or end the relationship there were a variant amount of excuses or reasons. Some say the marriage is dead but they only stay together for the children. Finances was a major reason too, there were some scared their spouses would ruin their credit, or do physical harm to them. Others felt divorce would harm their reputation, which doesnt make alot of sense, I think being caught in an affair would be more damaging.

* Some claim to love their significant other dearly but feel like theres so much distance between them. This was more common with women in their 40s, they loved their husband but felt like although he was physically present he wasnt there, not just sexually but emotionally as well, so they look elsewhere, usually to younger men.

In most cases I seemed to get the feeling that those who were having an affair werent doing it just because they could, or because they're horny. They're doing it because they are lonely and it seems to come down to pyschology.

One summed it up nicely by saying it was hard coming home to his wife night after night and everytime he tried to get intimate she had a headache, or something was bothering her. When he tried talking to her, she got angry and upset about it, when she agreed to have sex with him she just sort of laid there like a log, didnt move or make a n

 

i probably have a different take on this than most people on this board, so here goes:

i'm polyamorous. i'm in a poly relationship. i'm all for sexual relations outside the primary relationship. however, people who cheat on their spouses or other significant others suck.

it's all about informed consent. if you want to have another partner, and your significant other is cool with that, by all means, be safe and have fun. however, if you agree to be in a monogamous relationship, and you violate that agreement without the knowledge or consent of the person you made that agreement with, you're behaving in a pretty crappy fashion and you will most likely destroy your relationship.

i understand that people have bad relationships, but if your relationship isn't working for you, man up and say so, and either try to work it out or make changes or end it. don't make new problems by sneaking around, lying, exposing your partner to higher risk levels of STDs than they're aware of, etc. if you can't be honest with someone about your wants and needs, then your relationship isn't really worth much, is it?

 

Well said.

 

Yeah - that was well said, diz.

 

You know what's the thing I hate most? More than Nazi's? More than a hand in a bag full of broken glass and rusty nails? More than anything in this world?

It's people who cheat. It is cold and a slap in the face. A betrayl. And above all else... cruel.

Feel like you need to screw around? Break up and stay a swinging single.

That said.

I'm like Diz. I'm also in a poly relationship.

Kinda funny how I feel about cheating, huh?

Not really. Cause with my girl... there is consent.

And hell, sometimes me and her are involved in it together!

But we're on the same page. Both of us.

If she ever came up to me and said she didn't want to be in a poly relationship anymore... I'm so into this girl that I'd say fine. I can be happy with just one gal. But if after that she cheated... it's goodbye. Don't care if we were poly before... but the moment we changed gears... the consent was gone for the BOTH of us.

That's how I roll.

But me and my girl are still poly.

In fact, I told her if we ever got married... then I would want to be in a monogamous relationship.

...not including threesomes involving her and another girl

 

Looks like Im stuck fighting for the cheaters again *LOL*, its the way it usually goes


i understand that people have bad relationships, but if your relationship isn't working for you, man up and say so, and either try to work it out or make changes or end it.

Ok fair enough, what if they cant end it? Its not always so black and white, there are shades of gray in this area. People have to remain in a relationship for various reasons, usually children or finances. Should someone spend years in a dead relationship, that there is no way out of, and little human contact with their "partner".
Trust me I do understand what you are saying, but some just can't end things, violence is also a reason why they cant end it not to mention the power some "partners" have over their spouses lives after a break up.

"don't make new problems by sneaking around, lying, exposing your partner to higher risk levels of STDs than they're aware of, etc."

Why is it whenever someone mentions sex outside of marriage someone always brings up STD's? Unless the married person is having a one night stand..... from what I know most married folks know the person they are with fairly well, unless theyre real slimeballs and have sex with anything that moves.


if you can't be honest with someone about your wants and needs, then your relationship isn't really worth much, is it?

What if you are honest? What if you tell your partner exactly how you feel but there is no change, no human contact with them. What if trying to discuss these things only leads to fighting?

You know what's the thing I hate most? More than Nazi's? More than a hand in a bag full of broken glass and rusty nails? More than anything in this world?

I can understand the bag full of broken glass and rusty nails but more than Nazi's? Cheaters arent trying to ethnically cleanse anything, many of them are reaching out for human contact, to feel loved, and they are worse than Nazi's? Maybe its just me but I feel youve got your priorities wrong on this one.


Now so far I've gotten responses from people in poly relationships, but what about single relationships. What if there was very little contact between you and your partner? Whose worse the person who refuses to give of the person who looks elsewhere to take?

 

Oh, man, Tear, I sure love your stories!

 

Tear does rule.

Look, I could never imagine myself cheating on my wife. Under any circumstances.

Period.

.

 

Now so far I've gotten responses from people in poly relationships, but what about single relationships. What if there was very little contact between you and your partner? Whose worse the person who refuses to give of the person who looks elsewhere to take?

It's all about open communication and honesty with your partner. Since my wife and I are traditional, we would never cheat on one another. We always find ways to see each other, she even talked me out of getting a second job during a tough time in our lives because it would sacrifice time spent together. We could never do the poly thing, because no matter what, it would complicate things.

 

Nah, don't have priorities messed up.

And I'm a Jew.

Worst than Nazis. Cause Nazi's were either souless twisted bastards or forced into their actions.

What's a cheater's excuse?



Sorry, man. I know the world isn't black and white. But one has to take responsibility for their own actions. Even more so when there is no "I" in a relationship.

If my girl ever gets tired of me, bored of me... I want her to put me out of my misery and end it with me instead of dragging me along and her cheating on me.

Now, I'm not so cold of a bastard.

Sometimes people slip.

But if you slip and cheat on me... be an adult and tell me.

Depending on the circumstance... I might be able to forgive it once. What I mean by circumstance is that if she cheated on me because she wasn't satisfied with me either on an emotional level, physical level or both even... then it's over. Why? Cause she wasn't honest with me about how she was feeling and instead opted to go fool around... even if it was just once.

Did my partner cheat because she was just horny and drunk? Did my partner cheat, even though she is satisfied with me on a physical or emotional level, but slipped up for some stupid reason? Those things I MIGHT be able to forgive and only once.

Because one can be satisfied with their partner in so many levels BUT the fact is, we never stop feeling attraction for other people. It's NORMAL to feel attraction towards other people. The thing is, you don't act on it. You control yourself like a grown up. But sometimes people slip up on the "look but don't touch" limit. It happens.

EDIT:

Let me also add that I have been tempted to cheat with some previous girlfriends. Not because I wasn't satisfied. But because sometimes I'll see a really attractive girl at a bar or talk to a girl who isn't hot but is mentally attractive and I say to myself "Man, I wonder what it would be like to hit that!" or "Wow, I bet she's a little vixen in the sack!"

But it's normal to be attracted to other people. Normal for a guy or girl to imagine some hot chick or stud naked.

The thing is though... I never acted on my impulses cause not only would I feel guilty... but it is a slap in the face to my partner. I look, but I don't touch.

I will admit this. I flirt. But I leave it at that. I do harmless flirtation because it just comes natural for me.

 

Sorry, man. I know the world isn't black and white. But one has to take responsibility for their own actions. Even more so when there is no "I" in a relationship.

Sure it is its right here relationship


What's a cheater's excuse?

Depends, some are just horny fools, which I dont sympathize with. Then there are those who need certain levels of human contact but for one reason or another divorce or ending a relationship is not feasible.

Often its pyschological that someone needs to be held, touched, and reassured. Their spouse doesnt do it for them, who can blame them for look else where?

I have a friend who had this happen recently, she and her husband had no contact, all they basically did was sleep in the same bed together. I know she tried talking to him about it and that led to a huge fight, one that destroyed the relationship, literally. You couldnt call the house anymore without hearing them fighting when they were together. They've filed for divorce and she began seeing a high school flame. Ive cautioned her against it as I know her ex will try to use it against her, but thats a different story. She's told me more than once that she considered having an affair, and truthfully I couldnt blame her, I put most of the blame on her now ex-husband, it shouldnt be too much to ask to please your significant other from time to time is it?

Depending on the circumstance... I might be able to forgive it once. What I mean by circumstance is that if she cheated on me because she wasn't satisfied with me either on an emotional level, physical level or both even... then it's over. Why? Cause she wasn't honest with me about how she was feeling and instead opted to go fool around... even if it was just once.

What if she did. What if she did approach you about it, and you got mad and started screaming bloody murder? What if you dont remember what you said to her, all you remember was yelling, then you find out she slept around because of it? Would you blame yourself or her?

 

First of all, if someone's response to your girlfriend chearing is getting angry and one starts to yell... it's justified. The thought of such an action is enough to send most people's blood boiling. Even the most tamest of people.

So if she cheated on you because of how you might react to her cheating on you... the blame is on her.

If she cheats on you cause you are an arse or an angry person with a potty mouth... blame is still on her. She chose to be with an arse.

Every one is responsible for their own actions.

Here is an example.

I once dated a girl who was a royal you know what. She didn't cheat on me... but she was bossy, sometimes abusive in a verbal fashion and loved to pick fights with me. I was with her for a year.

Whose fault was it?

Mine. For being an idiot and sticking with her for so long. Either cause I didn't want to be lonely or because she was great in bed (she was... I mean... incredible). I blame no one but myself for taking such abuse.

See... if I got out as soon as I realized what a total b**** she was... I could safely say blame was on her.

I stuck around for a damn year.

While that does not exclude her from fault... because she did treat me badly... I have no one to blame but myself for sticking around.

Unless you're going to give me some extreme example, where the man or woman's life is in danger or their familie's life is in danger due to highly abusive spouse.. never any justification.

 

Enough with the debate. Tell me where I can find all these poly women.

 

I second that!!

 

Ok fair enough, what if they cant end it? Its not always so black and white, there are shades of gray in this area. People have to remain in a relationship for various reasons, usually children

i think there are few things, aside from serious physical or sexual abuse, that can screw up a child like infidelity in their parents' relationship. normal divorces, even, people can handle, but the depth of emotional conflict and confusion involved in children of cheating parents is almost beyond belief. i think it's mostly because they feel like they shouldn't take sides, but the party being cheated on is clearly the aggrieved party, and so there's a lot of anger and hurt feelings and all that. i have a few friends whose parents cheated, and there's just a huge rift between the kids and the cheating parent that almost never heals.

and, also, how's this for short-term thinking: "i'm unhappy in my relationship, but i don't want to put the kids through a divorce. i'm going to cheat!" yeah, follow that one through to its logical conclusion (i.e. a much nastier divorce a little ways down the road).

or finances.

this i have a bit more sympathy for, but most couples these days have two working parents, and any discrepancy can usually be ironed out through child support or alimony or whatever. even if you don't have kids, i don't think you're doing yourself or your partner any favors staying in a dead relationship for financial stability. if you do have kids, see above.

Should someone spend years in a dead relationship, that there is no way out of, and little human contact with their "partner".

Trust me I do understand what you are saying, but some just can't end things, violence is also a reason why they cant end it not to mention the power some "partners" have over their spouses lives after a break up.

violence is a deal-breaker. if you're hitting your partner, that person has no further obligation to you. if you can't leave the relationship because your partner is beating you and you're afraid of them, you're not really bound to any agreement you might have made to them, since it's effectively under duress.

Why is it whenever someone mentions sex outside of marriage someone always brings up STD's? Unless the married person is having a one night stand..... from what I know most married folks know the person they are with fairly well, unless theyre real slimeballs and have sex with anything that moves.

for me, it's just a question of managed risk and open information. it's not even a question of how serious the risk actually is, it's just a question of putting your partner in a situation where they're taking risks they're not aware they're taking. even if it's a relatively small risk, that's not OK.

What if you are honest? What if you tell your partner exactly how you feel but there is no change, no human contact with them. What if trying to discuss these things only leads to fighting?

then you need to leave. tear off the Band-Aid. if you are worried about the kids, you're better off leaving and putting your kids through the divorce now than putting them through a few years of cheating and then a nastier divorce. if you're afraid to leave for financial reasons, you just kind of have to bite the bullet and move on anyway. if they're hitting you, it's all the more important that you leave.

before anyone thinks i'm getting too preachy: i cheated on my college girlfriend once (with her best friend, no less), and i never told her. i'm perfectly willing to come out and say that it was a total **** move on my part. i was wrong, and what i did is totally indefensible.

people need to take responsibility for their own actions, and for their own relationships. yeah, sometimes people aren't fulfilling your needs in your relationship, but, hey, no one's putting a gun to your head and making you stay. if someone isn't giving you what you need, and you don't say anything about it, it's almost as much your fault as it is theirs, because you're putting up with it.

 

You have to take responsibility for your own actions. And cheating on your significant other (How P.C. is that ) is the coldest, most contemptible action imaginable. A friend of my girlfriend at the time came to the house one day after her hubby found out she was cheating and beat the **** out of her. I didn't feel a **** bit sorry for her and sent her on her way.

 

i think it's mostly because they feel like they shouldn't take sides, but the party being cheated on is clearly the aggrieved party

Is it really? You are certain things are so black and white that you can say the cheated on party is clearly the aggrieved one? And this is always the case?

so there's a lot of anger and hurt feelings and all that

Is that also not why some people cheat? Anger, hurt feelings, the inability to communicate?

i have a few friends whose parents cheated, and there's just a huge rift between the kids and the cheating parent that almost never heals.

I knew a pair of sisters who defended their mother after she was caught cheating one of them said and I quote "Its dads fault, if he cant get his pecker up in the air to please mom, then she has the right to look else where." Now they may be in a minority here, I didnt really research how children of cheating parents react, and that is not the reason of this thread.

and, also, how's this for short-term thinking: "i'm unhappy in my relationship, but i don't want to put the kids through a divorce. i'm going to cheat!" yeah, follow that one through to its logical conclusion (i.e. a much nastier divorce a little ways down the road).

Does this surprise you? It seems to me alot of people are getting married straight out of High School, they dont have time to get to know one another, and thus love one another. They rush into marriage for sexual purposes or for a way to get out of their parents house as quickly as possible, but thats another thread. Its society as a whole who has the short term thinking problem, people want quick fixes, thus fast marriages, sexual affairs, etc.

this i have a bit more sympathy for, but most couples these days have two working parents, and any discrepancy can usually be ironed out through child support or alimony or whatever. even if you don't have kids, i don't think you're doing yourself or your partner any favors staying in a dead relationship for financial stability. if you do have kids, see above.


With gas prices these days my friend people need second jobs just to pay for a tank of gas, but again thats another thread. Alot of times one partner is making more money than another and any divorce would lead to splitting the debts they have 50-50. That would put one partner making a living by eating shoes or something.

for me, it's just a question of managed risk and open information. it's not even a question of how serious the risk actually is, it's just a question of putting your partner in a situation where they're taking risks they're not aware they're taking. even if it's a relatively small risk, that's not OK.

If not having sex with ones partner put them in the affair in the first place then its rather moot as there is not a risk.

then you need to leave. tear off the Band-Aid. if you are worried about the kids, you're better off leaving and putting your kids through the divorce now than putting them through a few years of cheating and then a nastier divorce. if you're afraid to leave for financial reasons, you just kind of have to bite the bullet and move on anyway.

Leaving isnt always plausible, again there are many reasons why its not. Just up and "biting the bullet" isn't quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

if they're hitting you, it's all the more important that you leave.

Many of these are afraid of leaving, they're scared they'll be on their own and their s.o. will kill them, with a lover they feel as if they have some protection.


And cheating on your significant other (How P.C. is that ) is the coldest, most contemptible action imaginable.

Really? So youre saying its a betrayal, but isnt giving your s.o. the cold shoulder also a betrayal? Isn't ignoring them completly also a betrayal? Isnt failing to even try to make them happy a betrayal? Why is the cheaters worse than the others? It takes two to make any successful relationship work, if one partner all but physically left, then who betra

 

You have to take responsibility for your own actions. And cheating on your significant other (How P.C. is that wink ) is the coldest, most contemptible action imaginable. A friend of my girlfriend at the time came to the house one day after her hubby found out she was cheating and beat the **** out of her. I didn't feel a **** bit sorry for her and sent her on her way.

i'm sorry, i can't back you up there. cheaters are bad, but wife-beaters are the lowest of the low.

Does this surprise you? It seems to me alot of people are getting married straight out of High School, they dont have time to get to know one another, and thus love one another. They rush into marriage for sexual purposes or for a way to get out of their parents house as quickly as possible, but thats another thread. Its society as a whole who has the short term thinking problem, people want quick fixes, thus fast marriages, sexual affairs, etc.

statistically speaking, that type of marriage is much less common than it used to be. compared to almost any other era in US history, very, very few people are getting married right out of high school, and even fewer wait until marriage to have sex, and so i'd say the number of people getting married right out of high school so they can have sex is really, really small. this is especially true when you think about the 50s, when most people either got married just out of HS so they could have sex, or they had sex and caused an unplanned pregnancy which also led to an early marriage.

most people aren't getting married until their mid-to-late twenties or early thirties, and most have a few sexual partners before that point.

Leaving isnt always plausible, again there are many reasons why its not. Just up and "biting the bullet" isn't quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

frankly, i don't buy that. you can always leave. it can suck, but if it's important enough to be cheating over, it's enough to motivate you to leave.

this is one of those times when people can and should be held accountable for their decisions. if you made a commitment to a partner that left you in a dependent position, you should have planned better, and if life is hard for you getting out of the relationship now, well, life sucks sometimes. if you can't afford to take care of your kids on your own, you shouldn't have had them in the first place. we live in a world of safe and effective birth control and legal abortion. there's no excuse for having kids you can't effectively care for. none.

one issue i agree with conservatives on is the issue of personal responsibility. people need to own their own decisions, and failing to take action to better your life makes you complicit in any bad situation you may have found yourself in.

Many of these are afraid of leaving, they're scared they'll be on their own and their s.o. will kill them, with a lover they feel as if they have some protection.

i agree that cheating in an abusive relationship is justified, but ideally, the aim should be getting out.

 

Actually the guy had never laid a hand on her before. He worked two jobs to support her and their kid. He just found out she'd been cheating after all he did for her and it just set him off. If he were abusive beforehand i would have had some sympathy for the woman thats one thing. But when it turns out she was just a slut looking for a way to pass the time while her hubby was out trying to support her, thats something entirely different. Soin all honesty I can't see any grey area here. What she did was a betrayal and a slap in the face, and she got at least part of what she deserved for it. I would agree that there often are grey areas in life. But in this instance I have to say its as black and white, crime and punishment as it gets. When it comes to cold-blooded, casual betrayal, there is no grey area here.
Regards.....

 

People who cheat are total a-holes. There's always an excuse, but there's never a satisfactory reason. The reasons are always selfish. Always.

I too hate people who cheat.

 

You could start at Lovemore.

But Polyamory isn't about swinging or cheating, It's about living in honest and open non-monogamous relationships.

Peace.


spelling

 

Actually the guy had never laid a hand on her before.

Not all abuse leaves bruises! He could have emotionally and mentally abused the poor girl. You never know!

He worked two jobs to support her and their kid. He just found out she'd been cheating after all he did for her and it just set him off.

A very human emotion. Fear which in this case is coming in the form of anger. I can see where he could hit, but beating? Thats excessive.

If he were abusive beforehand i would have had some sympathy for the woman thats one thing.

How do you know he wasnt? He could have been the greatest guy in the world to her or he could have been a total *** to her when nobody else was around.

But when it turns out she was just a slut looking for a way to pass the time while her hubby was out trying to support her, thats something entirely different.

This could very well be, she could have been a girl who wanted to have as much sex as possible. She could have also been incredibly lonely.

What she did was a betrayal and a slap in the face, and she got at least part of what she deserved for it.

If she got what she deserved for it then he needs to go to jail for a very long time for assault. He would have got what he deserves. Depending on your state having a sexual affair is not illegal, beating ones wife is in every state youre in.

But in this instance I have to say its as black and white, crime and punishment as it gets.

So did they drag his sorry *** to jail?


When it comes to cold-blooded, casual betrayal, there is no grey area here.

I dont know these people, so I have to take your word for it. Again if it is someone who is out having sex all the time just because, then I have no sympathy for them. If in this case, the husband was always gone, and never had time to show his wife any attention or desire, then the area becomes alot more grey than you make it out to be.

People who cheat are total a-holes.

Not all of them! We're forgetting married people are human's too, and although it is desired people are weak. I can admit sexual affairs are a bit on the lazy side of fixing a problem. I am not advocating having an affair, however I am trying to open peoples minds to why it happens.

There's always an excuse, but there's never a satisfactory reason.

I disagree! I would have the backing of any pyschologist worth her/his degree would agree with me. The desire to feel wanted is strong in people, for some the desire to feel wanted is a need no different than eating or breathing for the entire species. In some people the desire is so strong that cutting them off from it could kill them, albeit slower than starvation but it will erode away their health until there is nothing left. Leaving the relationship is not always feasible either. If their spouse wont do it, they look to alternatives. Im not saying they need it 24/7, but they do NEED it.

 

All of this stems from dishonest, which was diz's main point.

If one wishes to be poly and is open about it, fine.

Cheating is the worst thing that can happen, however. I've had it done to me, and it sucked.

Peace,

V-03

 

Want me to kick his arse, Vader? -_-

I'll do it.

 

I dunno...

I've been on both sides and I can say that the reason I felt so bad about being cheated on is that I had to acknowledge my role in it. I basically pushed my girl into another man's arms. We broke up because of it, but I really don't hold a grudge towards her. I don't see it as her fault, it was simply a symptom of a dysfunctional relationship. I think so many people are so quick to condemn cheaters because they refuse to accept their own culpability.