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A Discussion Thread - Disposition of the Galaxy ? Sectors, member worlds, colonies, and the Empire

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth , Jul 20, 2006.

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  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Member world mechanics, in relation to the rest of the galaxy, is pretty messy, if I may say. So, I decided that it was best to combine the great minds of the Lit boards towards the problem. So, I?ll generally summarise the problems we have, and please note, most of my books are floating somewhere in the North Sea at the moment.

    In Shatterpoint, we?re told there are around 1.2 million worlds within the Old Republic, and a tenth of that within the CIS at the time, so 1.32 million worlds. Now, obviously, that doesn?t mean there are just that minor million of worlds within the Old Republic as a total. For a fact, we know there is a ratio of 1 member world to 50 colony worlds, from some source I can?t quite recall.

    Add to the fact that the Tales of Mos Eisley anthology mentions that there are some 20 million worlds with inhabited life on already and we see just how intertwined galactic politics truly is ? a million member worlds effect the fortunes of 20 times their number, and that?s not counting the very numerous worlds that are uninhabited, but habitable.

    We also know there were 1024 seats within the Old Republic from Cloak of Deception, more or less representing 1024 sectors. Thus, we have around 1290 member worlds per sector. As an average, this is. That means some sectors could have many more member systems than some, and indeed many less.

    For example, Senator Palpatine, I believe, represented 30 worlds from the Chommel Sector. Though, it is noteworthy, or a possible 1300 inhabited planets within the Chommel Sector overall. The Corellian Sector is noted as including 27 systems, which one could assume were simply member worlds. Senator Ryder of the Riaballo Sector is said to represent ?thousands? of systems in Cloak of Deception.

    I believe, however, even that simple assumption has problems. The Commonality, representing nine sectors, had, I believe, one seat in the Old Republic Senate. That?s a rarity, yes, but an interesting one. And of course upto 10,000 systems alone are represented by the Federation, Techno Union, and so forth, if Dooku?s comment that ?another ten thousand systems? should rally with their support is taken as true.

    Now, the Old Republic didn?t have a monopoly of the Galaxy. 1024 sectors, or 1.32 million member worlds, simply represents the sectors willing to get involved in galactic politics. Other states exist, such as the Centrality, the Free Trader Worlds, the Senex-Juvex Sectors, the Cassandra Sectors and the extremely large Hutt Space, which are not included in the overall member world total.

    Ditto with the Unknown Regions, which totals some 15% of the galactic disc, and, assumedly, some 15% of the galaxies possible member worlds. At least 30,000 member worlds are represented within the Empire of the Hand alone, after all.

    The Empire of the Hand is an anomaly. In context of Luke?s comment, it is over 30 times larger than the Imperial Remnant at the Bastion Accords, which numbered some 1000 member worlds. And it represents around 250 sectors. This number is sufficient to threaten Coruscant and the New Republic with its around-1024 sectors, according to Mara Jade, yes?

    Not likely. The Imperial Remnant, after all, represented 8 very small sectors, around 125 member worlds apiece, on average. The Empire of the Hand, I suppose, would be very heavily armed in comparison to the 5-fleet NRDF, but that?s a minor quibble of mine. 30,000 Imperial systems versus a million NR systems, after all - 250 tiny sectors versus 1024 massive ones.

    The First Galactic Empire itself, however, has a highly curious disposition. Pellaeon mentions an Empire that once spanned a million systems. Now, we know the Old Republic prior numbered 1.32 million, and that the Empire included the previously un-included neutral states like the Hutts and Centrality.

    It?s not a big problem, when one enters the mindset of the Emperor. I find it likely that Palpatine simply, as well as downgrading aliens in general, downgraded their homeworlds as well, from member worlds to, well, slave worlds?
     
    Sinrebirth , Jul 20, 2006
    #1
  2. wookieepedian1

    wookieepedian1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    :eek:

    [will tend to observe this from background]
     
    wookieepedian1, Jul 20, 2006
    #2
  3. Master_Uxi

    Master_Uxi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Nice analysis. Other things to think about: I recall a sector mentioned to have originally been 50 inhabited worlds. This could be interpreted as members or merely inahibted worlds. The idea for oversectors makes definite sense... but I wouldn't see very many, if any, sectors going DOWN except in the most extreme wars, plagues, hive viruses, etc... Seems more likely that the Corellian Sector for example is only counting it's member worlds and there are at least 23 other inhabited worlds, likely many more than that.
     
    Master_Uxi, Jul 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Thats a possibility, especially with just how destructive these wars tend to be, I suppose
     
    Sinrebirth , Jul 24, 2006
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  5. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002

    Firstly, accidently turned the entire drow city against me necessitiating a prudent reload and increased dislike for Aerie. More relevantly, the sector groupings were changed over the decades for all we know. What's applicable for Cloak of Deception's number need not be the case for Flim's Thrawn performance, where a Republican senator over saw 200-250 worlds.
     
    Excellence, Jul 24, 2006
    #5
  6. modi

    modi Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 5, 2004
    The problem is that WEG treated the sectors in a different way than LFL does now. The WEG sectors contain only thousands of stars with less than a thousand habitable planets (Corporate Sector might be an exception), they are closer to a star cluster than 0,1% of the galaxy... (for example Ottega and Tion).

    If the Unknown Regions is indeed part of the galactic disk (and as I know, this is LFL's current opinion) Empire of the Hand contains almost the entire UR. (Just note that according to Vision of the Future, Unknown Regions consists three-quarters of the galactic disk [face_whistling] )

    The Imperial Sourcebook mentions thousands of sector fleets.

    To illustrate the current situation:
    [image=http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7853/gmapstatec9.jpg]
     
    modi, Jul 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Pelranius

    Pelranius Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 25, 2003
    That satellite galaxy we saw in Jedi Archives in AotC (the one on the Endor side of the Galaxy) might just compose most of the UR.

    And those "four billion stars in the UR" info could just refer to stars in the part of the Galactic plane proper.
     
    Pelranius, Jul 24, 2006
    #7
  8. PainRack

    PainRack Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    There is no reason to assume that the UR is part of the galactic disc, considering the early WEG treatment of it. More likely, its outside the disc itself and lies in the halo. The NJO map is after all 2D, and cannot accurately represent the UR as being "north" of the disc.

    Furthermore, it has been explictly stated in both the WoTC and WEG sourcebooks that the UR is NOT part of the Republic or Empire and thus would not have been factored into systems count.

    The epic problem is that some sources, and I believe the Imperial Sourcebook is one of them, correct me if I?m wrong, patents a belief in thousands of sectors under the First Galactic Empire, rather than a mere thousand-odd. This represents a problem.

    You are correct.

    The Empire downgrades the number of worlds it members over, but radically increases the number of sectors it owns? It?s contradictory. Originally, sectors, yes, numbered only 50 systems, according to the Fact Files, and, assumedly that would mean 50 member worlds, but the galaxy obviously hasn?t used such a system for some time.

    Or had it? The Old Republic has, in its past, been intensely militarised, whether during the thousand-year New Sith Wars, or even during the Old Sith Wars that almost saw the Republic scuttled.

    I suggest that during those times the Old Republic did what Palpatine did during both the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War; created oversectors. Not of all sectors, no, because we still have the 27 member system Corellian Sector, and the 30 system Chommel Sector. Now, as time carried on by, these oversectors became the norm, and, simply, became sectors. Thus some sectors comprise the otherwise contradictory thousands of member systems - contradictory in the fact that the well renowned and powerful Corellian Sector comprises a mere 27 member systems.

    Or more likely, the Empire did what Mon Mothma said it did. Expanded and took over countless non aligned worlds away from people like the Hutts. Look at Tatooine for example.


    After all, the Boba Fett novels state that the Empire has over 50 million inhabitated worlds and countless colonies and settlements. Piett discovery of the Rebel base on Hoth was initially written off by the admiral as a smuggler or uncharted mining settlement.

     
    PainRack, Jul 24, 2006
    #8
  9. PainRack

    PainRack Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jan 6, 2004
    Proof of this? The Swessnera sector certainly wasn't treated like this.
     
    PainRack, Jul 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 8, 2005


    With advanced civilization, the term "Habitable world" loses it's meaning a lot. With Legacy out and Lumiya living on an asteroid which is a "Planetoid" at best......we create a world that is population: 1. How many of these "systems" are of this type? I mean "WE OWN 100,000 INHABITED PLANETS...ALL WITH FOUR PEOPLE ON THEM" just doesn't seem too impressive. ;) It would seem that if you can land a ship on it, it's habitable to some degree. A single planet like Muunilist or Bastion is obviously worth way more than gobs of sparsely populated worlds.

    Carnage
     
    Carnage04, Jul 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Thus, Carnage, my distinction between Member worlds and habitable ones. Muunlinist and Bastion are member worlds. Lumiya's rock would be a mere inhabitable world, or asteroid belt object even, by my system.

    Easily over 50 million, indeed.

    There are at least 1024 sectors under the Republic, which represents the majority of the galaxy, Painrack. If I took that majority to mean the Republic owns 1024 of the Known Galaxy sectors, and not 1023 of the others, in extremes, then the total would be a mere 2047, which still doesn't give us thousands, which implies a large plural of thousand, really.

    Modi: Thousands of sector fleets, or thousands of sectors?

    This is an important distinction, so which was it?

    The Corporate Sector included 30,000 worlds without any species on them prior, I believe, so it was a great excception.

    Three quarters? And the NJO book Refugee mentions 15% in the galactic disc....could the others be counted in the Satellite galaxy(ies)? Nagi is counted as being in the Unknown Regions in the new RPg sourcebook, I believe, and thats a satellite galaxy location.

    Retroactive continuity, one guesses?
     
    Sinrebirth , Jul 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Pelranius

    Pelranius Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2003
    I'd like to think that the satellite galaxy on the "left" and the volume of space around it is the Unknown Regions.

    However then, that would raise the question of why the "Unknown Regions" area on the map of the NJO books doesn't have very many significant worlds.
     
    Pelranius, Jul 25, 2006
    #12
  13. modi

    modi Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    It's not just the NJO map, but Refugee, Vision of the Future, and even The Unifying Force treats it as part of the galactic disk...

    No, they don't. That's from the Star Wars Sourcebook and about the Rebublic in it's last days not the Empire, and 50 million inhabited systems not worlds. And the 50 million systems includes the colonies.

    The exact quote:

    Reaching out from what came to be known as the Core Worlds, the republic eventully embraced over a million member worlds, and countless more colonies, protectorates and governorships. Nearly 100 quadrillion beings pledged allegiance to the Republic in nearly fifty million systems.


    No, you aren't. [face_whistling] It's about Sector Groups. There were oversectors too, with more than one Sector Group.

    Swessnera Sector? Or you mean Seswenna Sector? And I wrote proofs (Tion and Ottega) but if it isn't enough Tion contains only 12,000 stars and 600 habitable planets, and it consists 3 sectors (Cronese Mandate, Allied Tion Sector and Tion Hegemony). Ottega Sector contains 75 habitable planets and 622 moons. There is Brak Sector with 67 inhabited and 350 uninhabited star systems. Minos Cluster was a star cluster treated as a sector. Also the Slice contains only 1000 settled planets and it probably contains hundreds of sectors...

    Sector Groups.

    Thousands of Sector Groups are at the Emperor's command as he seeks to bring the Galaxy firmly under his control.

    No, it clearly states that the UR is 3/4 of the GFFA's disk. :oops:
     
    modi, Jul 26, 2006
    #13
  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    That makes it easier, then. Palpatine simply hunked sector groups into single sectors, intensely overmilitarising sectors. Easy as cake.

    3/4 is simply too big....then again, Isards Revenge mentions the New Republic is only in vague contact of 3/4's of the Empire's old territory...

    [face_thinking]

    Odd numbers. 1000 settled planets....could one take settled to mean 'modern, economically sound, politically active planets' ie Member worlds?

    That would work, one supposes. A thousand member worlds in the Slice alone. Just under 1% of the Republic/Empire represented in that region alone, and probably the more advanced ones.
     
    Sinrebirth , Jul 27, 2006
    #14
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