A lot of my friends didn't seem to understand what the asssination attempts on Padme were about

A lot of my friends didn't seem to understand what the asssination attempts on Padme were about...and to be honest I can sympathize with them.

A SW geek like myself was well aware of how somebody trying to kill Padme tied in with all the clone intruige, the Seperatist movement and so on. For us, it was really quite simple: Gunray wouldn't comit the Trade Federation's deep supply of resources to Dooku and his followers until his arch-nemesis Padme was dead.

But, the final act of the film is stuffed with so much visual imagery, plot and dialouge, I could see just how easy it would be for a novice to miss the scene where Obi spies on Dooku, Gunray and the other guys from the Commerce Guilds (the short scene where they're surveying the droid foundry). This is a pivotal moment as it essentially ties all the plotitical machinations together through a short and simple exchange of dialouge between the Count and the Viceroy regarding their little bargain (i.e. Padme's death=alliance).

The assination attempts are essentially what sets the film's entire plot into motion. I mean the fact that somebody was out to kill Padme is really what wound up unlocking all the major geo-political story threads tying the two trilogies together. Does anyone else think GL should have explained this bit of business with a tad more clarity?

 

They're pretty thick then.

 

That's okay, I still had to try to explain the whole Palpatine/Dooku war setup thing to my brother after the third time he saw it. I explained it to him after the first time he saw it. Then after the second time he saw it, I said to him, "So, did you understand all the Dooku stuff a little bit better this time?" And he said "Yeah, he knows what's going on! He knows about Palpatine!" And I'm like "He's working with Palpatine." And he says, totally surprised, "Really? He's working with him?" And I'm like "Yeah, did you not see the scene where Dooku goes to Coruscant and talks to Sidious?" and I explained to him a second time how the whole separatist thing and the war was just a big setup so Palpatine could gain power. Then the third time we saw it, at the beginning of the Clone War battle, he leaned over and said "So, they're using Dooku's own army against him, right?" And I'm like "Well, he wanted them to get it." Then he says, again totally surprised, "He wanted them to get it?"

AAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

 

Let's look at the facts in progression:

(1) There is unrest in the Galactic Senate. Several thousand solar systems have declared their intentions to leave the Republic. This separatist movement, under the leadership of the mysterious Count Dooku, has made it difficult for the limited number of Jedi Knights to maintain peace and order in the galaxy. Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo, is returning to the Galactic Senate to vote on the critical issue of creating an ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC to assist the overwhelmed Jedi ...


(2) "I shouldn?t have come back." - Padme

"This vote is very important. You did your duty; Corde did hers, now come. Senator Amidala please." - Captain Typho


(3) "I don?t know how much longer I can hold off the vote my friends. More and more star systems are joining the Separatists." - Palpatine


(4) "Do you have any idea who is behind this attack?" - Padme

"I think that Count Dooku was behind it." - Padme

"He is a political idealist, not a murderer." - Ki Adi Mundi

"You know M?Lady, Count Dooku was once a Jedi. He couldn?t assassinate anyone, it?s not in his character." - Mace Windu



(5) "Do you know who it was you were trying to kill?" - Obi-Wan

"It was a Senator from Naboo." - Zam

"And who hired you?" - Obi-Wan

"It?s just a job." - Zam

"Who hired you? Tell us ... tell us now!" - Anakin

"It was a bounty hunter called ? " - Zam



(6) "Track down this bounty hunter you must Obi-Wan." - Yoda

"Most importantly, find out who he?s working for." - Mace Windu

"Anakin, escort the Senator back to her home planet of Naboo. She?ll be safer there. And don?t use registered transport. Travel as refugees." - Mace Windu

"As the leader of the opposition it will be very difficult to get Senator Amidala to leave the capital." - Anakin



(7) "Don?t worry. Now that the Council has ordered an investigation it won?t take Master Obi-Wan long to find this bounty hunter." - Anakin

"I haven?t worked for a year to defeat the Military Creation Act to not be here when its fate is decided." - Padme



(8) "If the Senate votes to create an army, I am sure it?s going to push us into a civil war." - Padme

"It?s unthinkable! There hasn?t been a full scale war since the formation of the Republic." Sio Bibble

"Do you see any way through negotiations to bring the Separatists back into the Republic?" - Queen Jamillia

"Not if they feel threatened. My guess is they?ll turn to the Trade Federations or the Commerce Guilds for help." - Padme



(9) "I have successfully made contact with the Prime Minister of Kamino. They are using a bounty hunter named Jango Fett to create a clone army. I have a strong feeling that this bounty hunter is the assassin we?re looking for." - Obi-Wan

"Do you think these cloners are involved in the plot to assassinate Senator Amidala?" - Mace Windu

"No Master, there appears to be no motive." - Obi-Wan

"Do not assume anything Obi-Wan. Clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot." - Yoda



(10) "We must persuade the Commerce Guild and the Corporate Alliance to sign the treaty." - Count Dooku

"?What about the Senator from Naboo? Is she dead yet? I?m not signing your treaty until I have her head on my desk." - Nute Gunray

"I am a man of my word Viceroy." - Count Dooku

"With these new battle droids we?ve built for you, you?ll have the finest army in the galaxy." - Wat Tambor

"As I explained to you earlier, I am quite convinced that ten thousand more systems will rally towards are cause with your support gentlemen." - Count Dooku

"What you are proposing could be construed as treason." - Shu Mai

"The Techno Union Army ? " (fiddles with knobs) " ? is at your disposal Count." - Wat Tambor

"The Banking Clan will sign your treaty." - San Hill

"Good, very good. Our friends from the Trade Federation have pledged their support. And when their battle droids are combined with yours, we should have an army greater than

 

Actually your all wrong. If you watch the deleted scene on the dvd you will see that Amidala is agaisnt the clone army. She speaks against it in the senate. Her vote is very important. That is why there is a make on her life. To insure that the supreame chancellor palpatine is given emergency powers to use the clones. Amidala would have thrown a horseshoe into the mix.

 

I didn't include the deleted scene in my list of facts because it was deleted.

Trust me, I wish it hadn't. Apparently the fifteen reasons above weren't enough for everyone.

 

we posted the same time bj. so you were not meant to be corrected by the post altough it can be seen that both armys are the direct result of amidala life being threatened. So I can say I jumped the gun a little fast there. but the clones are by far the most imporatant reason, since they are the decendants of the storm troopers. And who says these prequels are fluff. The hell with with them...

 

Well after two prequels i believed everybody would have realized that the problem of the PT is that the average moviegoer thinks it's way to complicated .
And there's truth about this .
Obvious the trouble is figure out if this a good or a bad thing ,
The fact is this installment of SW is way to self cenred, with too many sel references amid a very subtle political plot.
I see then two ramifications of why people dislike the PT:
? The average moviegoer who like things like XXX and Adam Sandler movies is turned off by any strecht of plot that requires the brain to work. Let's face the facts AOTC has way too many misterious looks and faces ( what was Yoda thinking in this scene, and what in other, why Dooku looks sad, etc., too many answrered questions for the one who wants just popcorn/matineé movie experience. Not only the comom viewer, but even some film critic, like Ebert or Siegel, when watch a scene like that Yoda hears ANAKIN!NOOOOOOOOO do not see that as an exciting mistery; they just think " will SLJ sit again ? ". Plus there's a political system of the film own were queens got elected ( ?? ) and senators are nomitated .
From my experience people is annoyed from things like that ;
? the average moviegoer who's not a SW geek don't understand the subtle references to the SW universe contained in the PT. Serious what do you think anyone who's not a EU SW fan tought of Aura Sing cameo in TPM . For them it was a non issue. So the mirrored scenes, the references to other SW concepts developde after the OT was conclude ( like the sith, wich was a non issue by the time of the OT ) also turn off the majority of the audience ,

In the OT , for the average moviegoer, things were pretty black and white ? the good guys were Rebels, the bad ones were with the Empire.

That's what people expected from the PT, not to have to follow political intrigues and misteries about the political underground. Not to have to be familiar with some EU stuff ( the Darth Bane rule about only two siths at time for example ) .

Simply put people prefer to give up the PT experience instead of trying to figure out what's going on ? like who's behind the assassination atemps and why .

Simply Lucas served SW in a new suit and people have trouble with that ?

 

I agree even as hardcore fans you have to have to put alot of thought into connecting everything.

 

I agree even as hardcore fans you have to have to put alot of thought into connecting everything.

Oh geez, don't fill thier heads with that, it may imply that Lucas has no idea what he's doing and you actually have to think about what is going on. Forget about actually THINKING about anything, it should all be spelled out for us.

 

Heh, this reminds me about one of my favorite moments coming out of the theater after one of my later viewings of AOTC.

A mom was leaving the theater in front of me walking with three younger boys. Two of the boys were about nine years old, and the third was no older than six. After they finsihed raving about how "cool" the film was, he first nine year old said to the second, "it was confusing." The second nine year old replied back, "Yeah, I didn't get it."

The six year old, looked at both and smiling, stated, "I got it!" To which the first nine year old responded, "No you didn't, moron!"



Hehehe. Kids are funny.




Mace Windy,
making the evasion of spoilers look breezy!

 

The prequels do have to be viewed several times for the movies to make sense. They are somewhat complex with all the politics involved.

BTW, it does appear that the main reason why the assasination attempts took place was because Amidala was against the clone army which Palpatine and Dooku really wanted. Nute Gunray's revenge for the Battle of Naboo was a nice cover story.

 

Taking a more serious look on the issue :
there are no logical explanation for several little aspects of the political background of the movie .
Anyway the most underrated is this : when Anakin and obiwan report back to the council after the killing of ZAM , the council orders Obi1 to investigate and Anakin to protect Padmé. At that moment Anakin states that Padmé is the LEADER OF THE OPOSITION .
Altough the galactic parties were never disclosed the only logical conclusion is the Supreme Chancelor got to be part of the ruling party/situation.
This is very subtle but can prove that Padmé and Palpatine are oponents.
So we can assume there's 3 political groups in AOTC : the separatists ( led by Dooku ), the oposition/loyalists ( led by Padmé ), and the followers of Palpatine ( ruling party ).

So the spin behind the attacks is that Palpatine should not only get rid of his main opositor, but also use her death as a bait to his cause : a creation of a Republic Army that later he'll use to overtake power and implement the Empire.
Plus in the end things go so smoothly to Palpatine because Padmé becomes the 1st politician to use the clone army ? so her credibility is destroyed as enemy of a Republic army ?

 

There are two reasons for wanting her dead:

1. Palpatine and Dooku want her dead because she's standing in the way of creating an army for the Republic. As she herself says, she's leading the opposition in the government: she's the main opponent to the army being created. Palpatine wants her dead so that he can go ahead with getting his war underway, which will enable him to gain absolute power. He's ultimately able to accomplish this by having her driven into seclusion, rather than killed off.

2. Nute Gunray wants her dead as a means of revenge for the events of TPM.

 

I think this issue is more a little more complex than we're taking it.

If we remember from ROTJ, Obi-Wan told Luke, "The Emperor knew just as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him."

Looking at it from that "point of view" we can see that Palpatine/Sidious wants her dead, because he knows that she will give birth to the children that will eventually be a threat to his plans for domination. So by killing her this way, it eliminates Luke and Leia who ultimately do help in destroying the Emperor and his Empire.

However, as it has been said before, taking it in context of the movie, the assasination attempts were to probably allow Dooku & Palpatine to use the Clone Army so that the Empire could eventually be created. She was the voice of reason against the use of a military and they both wanted her eliminated. This also ties in with my previous ideas, but you get the point.

Padme = voice of reason against military & future mother of most Powerful Jedi's children

Yeah, not hard to explain why Dooku wants her killed. Gunray is just in it for revenge, everyone else is trying to get rid of her for a different purpose.

 

I believe that Palpatine/Sidious did want her dead, as she was the leader of the pacifists, but it didnt matter much either way, whether she lived or died. If she did die, he could have blamed the seperatists, and this would have been added incentive for others to give him emergency powers.

 

"2. Nute Gunray wants her dead as a means of revenge for the events of TPM."

True, but the TF also has a vested interest in war since it will, no doubt, be quite lucrative for them. The Trade Federation will not only have a hand in the wartime economy, but they are arms dealers as well. Thus, Padme stands between them and a big pay-day.

 

I think what might be a source of confusion on this is that while there are plenty of reasons for Dooku and the TF to want to kill Padme, there is still (at the outset of the movie) no logical reason why Padme would suspect Dooku of being behind the assassination attempt.

Think about it... at that point in the film, what do we know?

There is a separatist movement led by "the mysterious Count Dooku".

There is a measure before the Senate to create an Army of the Republic to assist the Jedi, who are spread too thin to be able to deal with the separatists.

Senator Amidala is returning to Coruscant to vote on the measure.

She arrives, expecting trouble, and somebody tries to kill her.

She makes it clear that she suspects Dooku.

At that point, it does get a little fuzzy, because the natural assumption from all of this (not knowing until after the speeder chase that Padme is in fact opposed to the creation of the army) is that Padme is intending to vote FOR the Army to deal with Dooku and the separatists, hence her assumption that Dooku is the one trying to kill her. Then after that's had time to settle in during the whole chase scene, we THEN finally find out that Padme is opposed to the Military Creation Act. Which then brings up the question of why Padme suspected Dooku in the first place when she's clearly trying to prevent the Republic from escalating hostilities against him and the separatists.

I can see how this would come off as rather nebulous for a lot of viewers. Not nebulous in a "this is a mystery for me to figure out" sort of way, but nebulous in an "I'm not sure this really works" sort of way.

 

I think it comes across that fact does not make sense to Padme either, that's why she wants it to be investigated. This is one reason why I wish the first deleted scene had not been deleted.

Now on Dooku's side it makes perfect sense. He's just acting on behalf of the Separatists. Whatever means neccessary are used to start a war, that is whole goal. He wants the Republic to vote on the issue of creating an ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC just as much as Palpatine. Padme becomes a bargain becuase if she is assassinated, the TF will be helping the Separatists without a doubt, also if she assassinated at the capitol, it can be used as a scare tactic to get Senators to vote for the army.

When she survives, Palps and Dooku go with the flow. I think it's safe to assume they give Jango certain instructions such as "if the puppet bounty hunter you use gets caught by the Jedi, use this dart." The whole missing Kamino had already been done in the past. This is actually something that could have bitten Palps and Dooku in the butt. But Obi-Wan is resourceful and gets the lead to Kamino. If he hadn't I imagine Palps would have "helped" him out somehow from behind the scenes. So Kenobi goes off to Kamino. Padme and her escort, Skywalker, leave Coruscant, Jar Jar takes her place. And it all fits together for something even better. Palps gets emergency powers, his army, and his war. Palps really gets the good stuff in AOTC.

 

"At that point, it does get a little fuzzy, because the natural assumption from all of this (not knowing until after the speeder chase that Padme is in fact opposed to the creation of the army) is that Padme is intending to vote FOR the Army to deal with Dooku and the separatists, hence her assumption that Dooku is the one trying to kill her."

Actually, the natural assumption is that the separatists mean to disrupt the order of the Republic. The attempt on Padme's life is better understood as a generalized terrorist attack, rather than a specific attempt to prevent a vote from taking place.

 

That's one way of working it out, Hector. Definitely. But it doesn't explain why Padme would immediately assume it was Dooku and not a group which was fervently supporting the Military Creation Act. If it were the latest in a rash of assassinations against people on both sides of the issue, then sure... I could see where maybe an assumption that it was general terrorism on the part of the Confederacy could come into play.

It's nothing I can't live with, but like I said before, I can certainly see why people who aren't die-hard SW nuts would have a hard time getting a handle on why they were trying to assassinate Padme in the first place.

 

Right, and those deleted scenes would've neatly tied all of this up at the very beginning of the film: the cut Senate scene following the explosion DOES establish that Amidala was in fierce opposition to the Military Creation Act (love that look on Palpatine's face when she basically denounces him in front of the whole Senate)...but, on the other hand, I can also sorta see why this scene was trimmed, as another political exposition would've shotgunned the momentum the movie was building at that particular point in time.

(Yet, it *was* great to see Portman practically screaming in fury in a Star Wars movie for a change.)

And, as another piece, I still think that Lucas should've left in the "Lost Twenty" sequence in the library, as it would have established Dooku as this major force to be reckoned with rather early on in the movie, certainly long before Kenobi visits him on Geonosis, and would've only taken up *perhaps* a minute-and-a-half of screentime, tops.

 

It seems a lot of people agree that it's difficult to understand, and unlike the original trilogy, it seems that the prequel trilogy will each rely on the other movies to make complete sense.

Something that I always come back to, is that Palpatine is all-powerful and has great command of the force. His ability to sense the future - "everything is proceding as I have foreseen", "you are powerful as the emperor has forseen" etc - would suggest that Palpatine has never wanted Padme dead.

In both TPM and AOTC, he positively relies on her existence for his plans.


- - I've just thought of a different subject, have you noticed that Sidious hasn't 'foreseen' anything in the PT - "this is unexpected" when Padme returns to Naboo, and "everything is proceeding as PLANNED" in AOTC. Is there a thread on this??

 

Just read the novelization... it'll all make sense...

 

Tell your friends not to be concerned, neither does George.