"A Prophecy that Misread Could Have Been"

"A Prophecy that Misread Could Have Been"

This line from Yoda in the PT leads me to believe that Luke is truly the Chosen One not Anakin.
Although Anakin was father to the force, his role is to create the child to bring balance. Why else would Yoda say this?

 

He was referring to them not knowing that Anakin would fall to the dark side. Lucas has clearly stated that Anakin is the Chosen One because he, not Luke, was the one who destroyed the Sith.

 

"Could have been" is not the same as "was". Lucas has confirmed that the prophecy was not in fact misread, and ROTJ makes this clear on its own.

That quote precedes his turn to the dark side.

 

Yoda had made comments in the past that Jedi were too sure of themselves, even the older, more experienced ones. Yoda sensed the Order crashing from within and at that point of ROTS and I interpret Yoda's statement to mean that the Jedi had been so arrogant in their knowledge of the force that they were blinded by their presumptions.

In a simple example, many Christians interpret stories of the Bible in different ways according to their own beliefs. The Jedi were no different in their interpretation of the force and they only considered their view when trying to understand a somewhat vague prophesy. One's perspective influences one's interpretation.

GL has stated Anakin was the chosen one. He just chose to follow a a path to fulfill the prosphesy that the Jedi arrogantly refused to consider.

 

Seems par for the course, considering that AOTC and ROTS deal with dissolution. Yoda feels that his tether to the Force is weakening, that the cloud of the Dark Side is expanding, that the political institution/figurehead he serves is compromised...it's only logical that he would question nebulous prophecies.

In essence, he's in a spiritual miasma. And only Qui-Gon can wrest him out.

 

Anakin brought balance to the Force. He purged both Jedi and Sith thus a new beginning was reached by the time Luke was left as the last official Jedi Master in the galaxy.

 

Allow me to clarify what I was referring to.

The preface to Yoda's comment was Mace believing that Anakin would be unable to handle being with Palpatine, and that Mace doesn't trust him. He is clearly hinting here that Anakin had the potential to do something against the Jedi. Not necessarily kill them, mind you, but somehow betray them. Obi-Wan defends his friend, and uses the prophecy as an example, but Yoda cites that the prophecy could have been misread. This is an allusion to the possibility that Anakin could possibly betray the Jedi, or at least do something foolish. I think this is confirmed when Obi-Wan says "he will not let me down" right after that.

 

History tells us that prophesies are often misread. A king is said to have visited the Oracle of Delphi to ask a question of great importance. He wanted to know if he went to battle with a rival kingdom if he would win? The Oracle replied: "If you go into battle, a great kingdom will fall." So the king interpreted the results in his own favor, went into battle and a great kingdom -- his own -- fell.

We tread on some shaky philosophical ground when the term 'Chosen One' is used in terms of a "Jedi" prophecy. The Jedi believe the Chosen One will bring balance, as the ancient prophecy foretells. But the Jedi system and some of their fundamental beliefs may in fact have been corrupted or flawed, thus influencing their own definition of "balance," which is all light and no dark. This, in turn, influenced their interpretation of the prophecy.

However, we know that the Sith did not die out with the defeat of Bane. Sidious is the end of a long line of Sith Lords that continued after the Sith Wars. Thus for the millennium before TPM, the Jedi and the Sith coexisted in the galaxy, and the galaxy seemed to operate just fine with Jedi-light and Sith-dark galactic views, until the Jedi faltered and allowed the darkness to cloud their abilities, dark overtaking the light and not coexisting.

One could argue that it was the Jedi, and not the Sith, who threw the force out of balance. How? By being arrogant enough to believe that they had eliminated the Dark Side so very long ago, and thus had no need to remain vigilant for its growing in strength one day in the future. Sidious is thus able to enter politics as Palaptine, manipulate galactic affairs, start a civil war and place the Jedi under his military control.

"How" the force is used by the individual that determines whether it is light or dark in the black and white world of the Jedi and Sith. In the same sense, how the force is "not" used determines which side, light or dark, becomes dominant.

The Jedi believed that the true nature of the force was the "light" side. Anakin turned that view totally on its head. From the time we first meet him he had passions, wants and needs, and yet managed to do a pretty solid job of becoming a galactic hero despite having what the Jedi order considered to be some rather serious flaws.

Some of Skywalker's flaws were present in Anakin's children too -- Luke is trained much later in life after he develops some strong emotional attachments, wants and needs while Leia becomes "attached" to Han (and in a sisterly way to Luke). Yet after Anakin destroys the Emperor, Luke is the last of the Jedi, unbalanced by post-Sith War (i.e. Jedi) standards, but far better than solely a Sith alternative. Luke and Leia, the New Hope, more "balanced" in their daily lives.

So I could be convinced that Anakin was in fact balanced from conception, since he is the product (one way or another) of the force. I think he was the most powerful Jedi because he inherently understood "and used" the force to its full capacity once he was trained in its ways. This allowed him to become a Jedi hero, then later serve a Sith Lord (becoming one himself), eventually returning from the darkness to destroy the Emperor and save Luke.

Anakin is the first (and only) Jedi to fall to the Dark Side and return -- Light and Dark in one person -- and who at key times behaves in a very unbalanced (Jedi/Sith) way, as we all do at some point in our lives. But when the moment requires it, Anakin regains his balance.

Confused? Me too! But that's what Lucas gave us to work with.

 

No, Anakin is the Chosen One, he brought the Force into balance, Luke however is a very important Catalyst.

 

I don't think the fact that Anakin was the chosen One was in doubt.

I think its more about what the Prophecy implies:

The Jedi just assumed that Anakin would bring Balance to The Force by eliminating the Sith. Maybe Yoda was starting to feel at that time that wasn't the case. By the OT, Yoda and Obi-Wan obviously assumed that the Prophecy was over - they sent Luke to destroy the Emperor and Vader, not turn Vader back.

This is implied by Obi Wan's Answer from this scene:

LUKE
I can't kill my own father.

BEN
Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

How wrong Obi-Wan was here! He thought that the Emperor would win if Luke didn't kill Vader, and yet the Emperor Lost because Luke wouldn't kill Vader

Daft-Vader

 

Anakin has free will, so of course he could do something wrong. The future is always in motion.

 

Exactly. That's a lesson that Yoda learned through Anakin's mistakes and, frankly, his own personal mistakes.

 

As has been stated, Lucas has made it clear that Anakin was the Chose One. I don't think Yoda's words necessarily question that fact. It merely foreshadow;s the fact that the prophecy may, in fact, be fulfilled in a way in which the Jedi could never have conceived of.

 

The ROTS novel expands on that greatly. I'm not going to retype the entire conversation, but Obi-Wan basically told Padme that the prophecy might not require Anakin to be a Jedi at all, which I think the ending of ROTJ bears out: Anakin doesn't kill Palpatine through some awe-inspiring display of Force power, but through a selfless & widely-applicable demonstration of selfless love.

That's a Jedi quality, but it's hardly unique to the Jedi Order, IMO.

 

1. Anakin is the Chosen One, Luke the Son of Suns.

2. Every Jedi seems to think automatically the prophecy benefits them, but who isn't to say it was something Sith concieved? They use the force as well.

3. Yoda simply means that the prophecy could mean different things to different people.

4. Who says when the prophecy will be fufilled? I mean, Anakin still brought balance to the force, but they never specified how and when.

 

For whatever it's worth, Obi-Wan describes it as a Jedi prophecy in the RotS novel.

"My Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, believed that it was the will of the Force
that Anakin should be trained as a Jedi-and we all have a certain, oh, I
suppose you could call it a Jedi-centric bias. It is a Jedi prophecy, after
all."

 

The prophesy was that the Chosen One would destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force, was it not?

I think the Jedi believed that that would mean bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith.

The destruction of the Sith was only one part of the prophesy. Part of bringing balance to the Force was the overhauling of the Jedi order. That's the bit they didn't see coming.

 

Some Prophecy's take longer to unfold than others. Fact of the matter is that Mace seemed a little rushed to fing the answer. That is more like a Sith than Jedi..... In my opinion.

 

That's a popular concept, but it's contested by Stover ( and I think Lucas as well ) saying that Anakin could have fulfilled the prophecy in the Chancellor's office.

 

Lucas has said many, many times that Anakin is the chosen one and fulfills the prophecy in ROTJ. He has stressed it so, so much over and over again.

What ever the reason for that line in ROTS, it does not change the fact that Anakin IS the chosen one and brings balance to the force.

 

Does anyone have a transcript of Lucas' commentary (at the end of ROTJ, I believe) explaining how Anakin is indeed the Chosen One and that he does fulfill the prophecy? It would be helpful to provide direct proof of Lucas' thinking on the matter.

 

Anakin had the opportunity in the Chancellor's office, but needed to keep Palpatine alive to help him save Padme.

Windu had the Chancellor cornered and 'apparently' unarmed -- he had what he came for. Palpatine was still alive, fulfilling Skywalker's key need as well. Instead of arresting the Sith with Anakin's help, Windu decided to be judge and jury. Mace went for the kill, seemingly validating all Palpatine told Anakin about the Jedi in the Opera

Had Mace asked for Anakin's help in arresting the Sith Lord, the end result might have been different.

The big question is "why didn't Anakin simply block Mace's saber slash?" Pretty harsh move on The Chosen One's part to cut of Windu's hand, even if he hated Windu's guts.

 

There's a very primal dynamic at work here. Windu is essentially the oppressive father figure, who is threatening (again) to tear Anakin's dream of hearth and home to tatters. It's not enough that Anakin block his strike. Men like Windu took him away from Mommy, and restrained him when he knew, beyond a certainty, that Mommy was being tortured. Now, he intuits that Mommy Surrogate is destined to die in childbirth?yet here's big bad Mace, telling him she's not important. (And, as evidenced by his assassination attempt, that the Jedi ideal isn't that important.) What's a poor boy to do, but lash out at the rotter? Make him feel a little of the pain he himself has lived with for 13 years. Off with the hand!

Confession: I like Anakin more than Luke. He feels things more deeply, and never, ever forgets a trespass. More human, that one.

 

^^^^

Whoa!

I felt like I should be reclined on a couch in a dark, quiet room when I read that!!!

 

Fair point.

On the other hand, Anakin could have made many different choices on his way to fulfilling his destiny. Perhaps it happened as it did for a reason.