After ROTS, ROTJ has a completely different meaning.

Don't know if anyone else agrees with this, but I'm interested to know peoples views.


For the passed 22 years the title "Return of the Jedi" has always meant Luke Skywalker rising after his defeat to Darth Vader and destroying the Sith, or something to this nature.
All that changed recently after watching "Revenge of the Sith". Surely "Return of the Jedi" means the return of Anakin Skywalker. Dare I say it, but the scene that a lot of fans hate with Hayden playing Anakin as a force ghost only supports this further.

You might think I'm wrong but I just can't look passed this.

 

i agree that it could be argued that the jedi that has returned is anakin. He does fulfill the prophecy, become one with the force, revert back to his true self and is a jedi once again as opposed to sith.

but in 1983, i feel that the jedi GL would have been referring to was Luke. "I am a jedi. Like my father before me." Yoda and Obi Wan are dead, but Luke becomes a Jedi when he defeats Vader and thus the Jedi have returned. And the consequent EU books (which I don't care for), but that carried on into the NJO, birth of Han and Leia's children, etc.

I'm not sure GL was looking that far ahead at the PT with his ideas. Look at a few of the inconsistencies (Leia's memories, Vader wanting his son to have his lightsaber, etc.). Now post ROTS, GL might sing a different tune. i don't know.

there will be plenty who will read it the way you do. I'm just an old schooler who will stick with the interpretations we were left with pre PT. (i.e. there is another - that's Leia dammit, not Anakin!)

 

I'd say it still means the return of the Jedi order. Changed definately and in need of serious rebuilding, but the Jedi are back, the Sith are gone. I will allow that Anakin is included, per say, into that order.

 

Maybe it IS the return of the Order.

That said and done (and all is good), it would be great if the star wars universe could move on and have other, NON force sensitive stories popup.

We need more HAN SOLOS and LANDOS!!!

 

I think it means the return of the Jedi order and possibly also that of Anakin. Basically I have always felt it meant the return of the Jedi - not Luke, not Anakin but the Jedi. Yoda says Luke is the last of the Jedi and the Jedi return in this movie and the Sith die - end of story. I personally never thought the title referred to Luke personally- Anakin is possible but basically the order of the Jedi.

 

I disagree - the meaning is no different now than it was in 1983. ROTJ always had more than one meaning. Primarily, it was the return of Anakin from the dark side. It also refers to Luke's return from the brink of disaster in TESB. And it can also refer to the victory and return of a nascent Jedi order.

 

The title of this thread is a truism.

Every sequel or prequel to a particular story intends to flesh out previously established characters, storylines, etc. Their inherent nature is to change the way we perceive the original story. My perception of ANH completely changed once I saw TESB. Seeing Vader face Kenobi, knowing that he is Luke's father, makes that duel much more significant. Also, knowing that Vader is Luke's father completely changed the significance of some of Vader's dialogue in the DS trench.

This statement can be said about every single movie that has had a sequel or prequel made concerning it.

 

This is more suited to the Saga or the OT forum

 

I believe the central meaning of the title remains as it did back when ROTJ came out. The title refers to the Jedi, plural. The order of the Jedi that had disappeared, now had returned. It really doesn't make much sense for the title to refer to Luke anyway, since Luke was never a Jedi before, nor had he gone away. It could refer to Anakin somewhat, but again, despite what Anakin thought, he was never THE Jedi. So I think it just is meant to refer to the Jedi Order and their role in the galaxy.

 

ROGER GOLDLEADER:
That's interesting; I never really thought about Anakin before. I always looked at it as Luke finally becoming a jedi knight. I kinda got onboard with the "jedi" themselves as coming back to the galaxy (i understand some of the arguments anyway;not all of them)

Now that you say that; i guess it could be argued that having been a jedi before going to the dark side; the end of jedi has Anakin "returning" to the good side. It makes sense if you view the six movies as really "Anakin's" story.

 

Considering that ROTJ was almost Revenge of the Jedi, I always thought that the Jedi being refered was Luke.

 

Even if the title has stayed Revenge, It still applies more to the order. In fact, moreso. It was the Jedi as a whole that "deserved" revenge more than Luke as an individual since they had been betrayed and almost wiped out. Luke just lost his hand (and yes, also Owen & Beru), but that all pales to the what the Jedi order lost.

 

Hmmm...

No, I go with my original feeling: the OT is the story of Luke Skywalker. Of how he confronts his evil father and saves the day.

The PT is the big epic story of WHERE DARTH VADER CAME FROM.

Darth Vader is still, to me, the central VILLAIN to the OT, not it's main character.

 

"Return of the Jedi" always referred to the Jedi, as in, you know, the Jedi Knights.



I'm right
/LM

 

Redemption of Anakin Skywalker and he is a Jedi again.

A new jedi has returned (Luke)

 

The title is all about someone's POV. No one can say "No, you're wrong" about it because you can't change someone's opionion. It can mean three different things depending on what you want it to mean:

1. The return of Anakin Skywalker from the Dark Side
2. The return of Luke Skywalker as a Jedi Knight
3. The return of the Jedi Order

I think of it as all three!

 

yes, that's what it means.

 

This is a Saga Forum topic. Moving the thread there.

 

Most of the titles have multiple meanings. I think this is by design. Take "A New Hope" does that refer to Luke himself, the rebels first victory to obtain the death star plans and then the death star's destruction? "The Empire Strikes Back" could refrer to the actual battle of Hoth, or to the Empire's overall retalition against the rebels, or even the freezing of Han and the attempted murder/conversion of Luke. "Attack of the Clones" could refer to the actual attack in the arena or possibly the mear discovery of this army which will eventualy help the Emporer succed in his plot.

Anyway, I imagine y'all get the point by now. There's no reason any title can't apply to whatever you wish.

 

I gotta admit I never thought of ROTJ meaning the return of the Jedi Order. Really by the end of the saga the Jedi Order hasn't been restored across the galaxy.

 

Exactly, there is no Order at the end of RotJ - there is Luke. Perhaps if you're looking at Luke as the return of the Jedi ideals or the Jedi way ("I'm a Jedi like my father before me") then i could understand but i don't think one person can constitute as an Order.

To me, it's about Anakin.

The Phantom Menace = Sidious
Revenge of the Sith = Sidious
A New Hope = Luke
Return of the Jedi = Anakin

- O_F

 

I always thought the title referred to Anakin's redemption. I find it hard to believe that either most other people didn't think that.

 

but because luke is now a jedi knight because he defeated vader, the jedi order can return. and it does in the EU (even though I don't think it counts).

2 questions:
If it was about Anakin, wouldn't it have been Return of A Jedi?
Maybe some light could be shed by looking at what GL envisioned for Ep. 7 - 9?

 

bry-maul thats like saying "Revenge of the Sith" should be called "Revenge of a Sith". It's about Sidious taking revenge on the Jedi. Anakin, although counted as a sith in that film is simply someone searching for greater power through any means possible, and is not wrapped up with the entire history of the Sith Vs Jedi.

 

president, just threw out question #1 to play devil's advocate. I had always been under the impression that it was the return of the jedi order, and that started with luke becoming a jedi knight. Up until ROTS, even knowing that ROTJ ended with Anakin's redemption, I never stopped to look at ROTJ to include Anakin's return. It is good analysis, just hard to let go of your childhood notions sometimes. I would still bet that GL intended it to mean the jedi order, but would have no problem if he came out and said it was originally referring to Anakin's redemption - I can be a little slow at symbolism and hidden meanings sometimes. I think the answer to question #2 would definitely shed some true light...