PT Anakin Could Have Won The Battle of Mustafar

Obviously because we all saw 4, 5, and 6 we know that Anakin lost, but if Palpatine intervened in the battle of Mustafar do you think he would have sided with Anakin in the fight or made him try to finish it alone? Without Palpatine's help do you think Anakin could have beaten Obi-Wan?

 

Anakin lost the duel on Mustafar because his emotions were out of control.

 

Sidious would try to save Anakin. That's why he let go of a possible opportunity to finish off Yoda (if the clones were able to find him) and instead went to Mustafar asap.
I think he might try to give verbal guidance and only physically intervene when absolutely necessary.

 

Could he have, yes. Did he no.

Vader made a few critical errors on Mustafar; first believing he was more powerful then a focused, trained Jedi Master who fought on because it became necessary. Not because he was (Obi-Wan) enraged, filled with hatred and undisciplined. The second error that Vader made was thinking that allowing Obi-Wan to gain control of the environment during the duel it moved from the deck to the control room and then to the lava river when the environment changed so did the avenues to certain victory.

and finally thinking that he was capable of disarming Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan was in the position of strength. If Vader had just stayed on the unstable hover port it either would’ve ended with Vader having his limbs or Obi-Wan having to deal with Palpatine but we know what happened.

 

I think Obi-Wan was smart enough to realize he could lead Vader anywhere. Vader was so focused on killing/proving to Obi-Wan he was better/more powerful, that the increasing environmental risks where not something Vader was second guessing. And Obi-Wan almost succeeded in having Vader die from a environmental scenario when the control arm was falling down the lavafall. Vader just barely recovered from that mistake but Obi-Wan became aware at that point that Anakin/Vader would do almost anything to kill him and took advantage of that.

Vader had the advantage of combat, but Obi-Wan was the one leading the fight.

 

Anakin took out Dooku, whom Obi-Wan was never able to defeat. I still believe he could have defeated his former master if he had kept his emotions under more control.

 

Exactly, their was so much more involved in that duel, it wasn’t just Master v. Apprentice with the lightsaber but also with the intelligence to adapt, evade and use the force. Obi-wan showed his true mastery.

agreed. Great post!

 

I think Obi-Wan was lucky. If he had that much trouble with an emotionally out-of-control Anakin, I can only imagine how he would have fared with an Anakin in control of his emotions.

 

Palpatine went to Mustafar with the intention of helping Anakin, knowing he was in danger. It’s not out of care or concern, but because Anakin was on the verge of being near unstoppable, but had yet to reach that point. Palpatine wanted to be sure that Vader would be the most useful apprentice possible, but he arrived too late to help or to deal with Obi-Wan.


In my view, Anakin would have beaten any except for three people besides Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan is about an average duelist, but a master at improvising (his duels against Maul, Grievous, Ventress, Maul and Savage).
However, Obi-Wan knows Anakin’s style of fighting so well, it’s near the same as his, so Obi-Wan knows how to properly defend against it.
He has no such luck with Dooku, even with his mastery of Form III: Soresu by the start of ROTS.

 

Brains win a fight,
not midichlorians

Obi-Wan was the one with the brains.

 

Anakin should have played possum.

 

Anakin was not stupid. He used his brains and self-control to defeat Dooku in ROTS. And in that same duel against Dooku, Obi-Wan had arrogantly believed that both he and Anakin could take out Dooku, forgetting what happened the last time they had fought against the Sith Lord.

Look, Obi-Wan was an excellent duelist. I cannot deny that. But I'm beginning to suspect that fans have this tendency to place him on a pedestal. And the Anakin Skywalker he had faced on Mustafar was one whose emotions had spiraled out of control. Emotions will only get you so far. Obi-Wan had learned that lesson on Naboo. I can recall a scene from the1977 movie, "The Man in the Iron Mask" in which the D'Artagnan character portrayed by Louis Jordan was giving fencing lessons to Richard Chamberlain's character, Phillippe. He made it clear to the latter that if he wanted to use anger to fight against an opponent, he had to use "cold anger" or controlled anger. I believe this is what had allowed Anakin to defeat Dooku. On Mustafar, Anakin's anger was never under control. Just as Obi-Wan's own anger had spiraled out of control after Maul had struck down Qui-Gon.

People claim that Obi-Wan had the benefit of knowing Anakin's fighting style. But let's be honest. Anakin had the same benefit of knowing Obi-Wan's fighting style. Despite this benefit and despite Anakin's failure to control his emotions, Obi-Wan still had great difficulty in fighting his former padawan. To this day, I believe he was damn lucky that Anakin was never able to control his emotions during that duel.

 

well...that's a debate for another thread for sure.

I'd say that Dooku's arrogance lost him that duel, combined with the fact that Anakin was a bit more experienced than the last time they fought (which was 2 days ago in TCW terms) not Anakin's intellect. Dooku became complacent, sloppy ie: didn't use his brains.

nah, Obi-Wan is a meh character to me, I prefer Qui-Gon or Luke as Jedi characters.

Agreed, why you need 'brains'

I also agree with you that Anakin knowing Obi-Wan's fighting style is just as relevant as Anakin knowing Obi-Wan's so isn't really a good argument to use why Obi-Wan won this fight.

 

I don't mean that. What I was trying to say is . . . emotions and brains will only get you so far.

He won that fight because Anakin's emotions were out of control. That is what saved Obi-Wan in the end.

 

Brains will only get you so far?

that's...a unique perspective, I suppose.

 

well, palpatine was kinda occupied (trying to outlive yoda).
but no, he would help him if he could for sure. he knew anakin is far from his true potential and at this point obi-wan can defeat him (which he did).

the moment obi-wan took the high ground, anakin lost. it was one force-push away from certain death. anakin's only chance for survival is to stop the fight and hope obi-wan wont force push him to the lava.
anakin was a better swordsman, obi-wan was a better tactician.

 

Yes. There are other things to consider - feelings, instinct.

I guess it's really that important that we all regard Obi-Wan as the ultimate Jedi Knight/Master and pretend that he is nearly flawless.

 

feelings and instincts can be wrong.

since once again you seem to only half read posts :

I'll repeat

 

since the prequels were released and we first saw what is a real jedi, luke is no jedi. he is just a guy who learned some force tricks and low-bar swordsmanship.
real jedi move like lightning, their precognition is always working, they have a plethora of force powers to use at will and can deflect multiple clones. a teen jedi was able to jump into a group of clones, kill a few and deflect several attacks before getting hit.

luke is no jedi. at least not during 4-6. after, maybe.

 

Yoda was pretty clear that, after confronting Vader, Luke would be a Jedi.

 

I...really don't know what to say to all that but...

ok, just...ok.

 

Obi-Wan was a perfect warrior to counter Vader on Mustafar. The Form III master that knew Anakin inside and out had a unique advantage against a newly minted Sith Lord that just freaked and Force choked his pregnant wife.

 

To be fair, they kinda were out of options. xD And I doubt Leia would be willing to abandon her post as leader of the Rebellion to mediate in a swamp with Yoda.

 

Anakin could've won the Battle of Mustafar but then the script intervened and he lost.