Anakin's love never addressed in OT

In fact, Yoda and Obiwan never explained to Luke why Anakin turned to the Dark Side beyond a few hints.

"Anger, fear, agression... the Dark Side are they."

"Anakin was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force."

They never hinted that love and attachment were Anakin's reasons. They only adressed his actions (from a certain point of view ) :

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil... helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi. He betrayed and murdered your father."

Nothing about betraying and murdering his mother. Either of them could have mentioned Luke's mother as they both knew her. You think that this lesson about attachment would have been an important thing to mention when Luke chose to fly off to Bespin to save Han and Leia. (Poor Chewie always gets left out. Might as well be a droid...)

Obviously, the two of them knew Anakin was having relations with Padme because of the kids. Did they even know that the reason Anakin turned was to save her? Did they even care?

I guess with the galaxy going to heck all around them.... probably didn't care. But did they KNOW? If they knew, would they understand?

 

Oh they knew alright!

"Anakin's the father isn't he."

Padme nodds.

"I'm so sorry."

Snort!

They knew...but they didn't understand. Anger, fear, aggresion. Anakin had these things. But that was because he thought Padme was going to die. Obi-wan and Yoda have never been in love.

I just want to know Luke's reaction when he finds out about everything.

Cheers_Cazza

 

I think Yoda and Ben are in a way talking of the reasons to Anakin's fall. Yes, Anakin wanted to save Padmé, but it was his fear of losing her that led to his turning to the dark side. His main reason for doing what he does in ROTS is: "I won't lose you the way I lost my mother". He was actually driven by his own emotions and focus on himself. Compare it with Luke's "They're my friends, I've got to help them". Here the focus is on the others, not the "I". Luke thought more about Han and Leia than the risk he would put himself in.

So yes, Yoda and Ben must have known that Anakin fell when he tried to save Padmé. But I think they did not fully grasp the different ways that love can work. Love can make one selfish but it can also make one unselfish. It's interesting that Ben used a very similar reasoning in order to persuade Luke not to go to Bespin ("I won't lose you to the emperor the way I lost Vader").

 

I disagree. Love is inherently unselfish.

Anakin might have loved Padme, but it was his passion and emotions driven by selfishness that compelled him, not love.

 

It was the fear of losing the one he loved is what drove him over the edge. His "love" turned into being posessive about her. It's all linked together with him. This is why the Jedi are "forbidden" to love. Sorry to sound like Yoda, but fear/attatchment/greed are all words linked throughout the saga to describe the dark side..so "from a certain point of view" they told Luke all he needed to know. Besides, while Obi-Wan knew Anakin was the father, the only one that knew that fear of losing her is what pushed him over to the dark side was Palpatine. I'm sure you could argue that Yoda and Obi-Wan could have pieced together that this was part of the puzzle, but it wasn't necessary. Anakin had other issues than this..this was just the final piece that sealed his turning.

 

Jedi aren't forbidden to love at all; they're encouraged to love. That whole notion is one of the biggest misunderstood theories about the PT yet. Which is weird because Anakin, ironically, really lays it all out in AotC.

"Attachment is forbidden. Compassion is central to a Jedi's life"

"The Jedi are trained to let go. They're trained from birth," he continues, "They're not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can't form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 213

Anakin loved Padme - of course he did, but he started loving her possessively. At the point of RotS, he doesn't even listen to her anymore - he's acting selfishly and never bothers to do what she wants him to do. Love isn't what drove him to the darkside - in fact, love is the very thing that could've (and will) saved him from it.

"All i want is your love"
"Love won't save you Padme, only my new powers can"

- O_F

 

And for Anakin, the power became more important than the reason he wanted that power in the first place. Padme, even at the end, begs Anakin leave with her, to save himself and think of their child. She offers her love, and he rejects it in favor of power.

 

i think they don't properly know what made him turn to the dark side. how would they. neither of them really properly knows anakin skywalker. they just perceive him as a problem.

it's nice how attachment gets dragged out again and how supposedly we misunderstand the notion of celibacy in the PT.
i certainly do not see any jedi other than anakin have a relationship, so apparently they all *chose* not to. which makes no sense whatsoever because they are encouraged to love.

a reason it totally isn't addressed in the OT, i think is, that vader himself denies it. he would not talk about it or mention it.

 

Nothing about betraying and murdering his mother. Either of them could have mentioned Luke's mother as they both knew her. You think that this lesson about attachment would have been an important thing to mention when Luke chose to fly off to Bespin to save Han and Leia.\

I do not agree.
They were trying to keep the identity of his father a secret, and giving Luke an encyclopedia of Vader's life story isnt exactly the way to do that. Vader killed his father is more than enough information. Bad people are easy to catagorize. You always know what they are up to (something bad) and you always know what to do about them (get rid of them). THe Gettysberg address is not required to get Luke to go save the galaxy.

 

Well because they failed to recognize that Anakin was still in Vader,they usually just referred to him as Darth Vader. Besides,how do you think Luke would react to his father killing basically abandoning his mother while she was pregnant and abusing her and then leaving her to die.

He was very much consumed at the time,and I dont think they'd want to detail it to the man who is to redeem him. Luke feels compassion for his father,because he doesnt really know the backstory,I'm sure he wouldnt feel as strong if he knew the whole truth.

 

I think the saga works better with no mention of Padme in the OT. Really adds to feeling that Vader has left his old identity behind.

This thread has raised an interesting question though; did Obi-Wan know how Anakin was turned. They knew it began with fear, no doubt, but both the "OT Jedi" were off Coruscant when most of the main events happened.
Thinking about it, it would seem they knew.

EP3:
YODA:
Yourself you speak of, or someone you know?
ANAKIN:
Someone...
YODA:
Close to you?
ANAKIN:
Yes.
YODA:
Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. Fear of loss is a path to the darkside.
ANAKIN:
I won't let these visions come true Master Yoda.

EP5:
When Luke wants to go save his friends (also not wanting his visions to come true) -
OBI-WAN:
I don't want to lose you to the Emperor the way I lost Vader.

Still, I think it is interesting that neither Yoda or Obi-Wan were actually there when Anakin gave into his fear and "saved" Sidious. A lot of people picked up from EP2 and EP3 that Anakin's worst actions occur when Obi-Wan is not there. While it shows the good influence Obi-Wan had over him, I think it also demonstrates that Obi-Wan could never truely understand why Anakin turned. The first thing he sees when they meet up again is Anakin force-choking Padme.

 

Luke was taught that the strenght flows from the force and to beware of the dark side... Anger, fear, agression. Yoda told Luke that those elements flow quickly to join anyone in battle or fight. He later told Luke that once anyone starts down a path to the dark side, it will dominate forever his destiny and consume him as it did with Obi Wan's apprentice, which it really happened to Anakin from the beginning... He started his path to the dark side with his anger and agression... Remember the slaughter at the Tusken camp... Anakin made an oath to complete his path or journey into the dark side and that was because he wanted to save Padme's life... The whole theory that Palpatine told to Anakin about Plagueis was a complete lie in the sense that no one had stopped death or cheated death before and/or manipulated life... The only way to learn this is from the force and become one with it, according to the Jedi...

Yoda and Ben didn't need to tell Luke that Anakin's path ended because of love... It could complicate things for Luke... As someone said before, just keep it simple stupid for someone who's becoming to get introduced at early stages into a new learning process of things that are way beyond reason...

So at the end, there is no need to address Anakin's love as the reason of his fall in the OT... Jedi never taught anyone that love was dark or considered as sin... They said attachments and possessions were forbiden, which is true. Compassion, as unconditional love, was central to a Jedi's life, so they were encouraged to love...

The reason why Anakin turned to the dark side was because he wanted more and his power blinded him that he even ended up killed her true love and woring a black suit...

 

bump

 

I agree with your statement Durwood.