Anaxes, Azure Hammer Command, and the "Imperial" Starfleet: A Hypothesis

[I'm throwing this thought out as a suggestion for discussion, disagreement, and general entertainment... it's a theory, and one that I believe is in accord with the "evidence", but the idea here is to discuss it...

Nicely... ]

The planet Anaxes, introduced in Coruscant and the Core Worlds; it's one of two inhabited planets in the Solis Axum system, Azure sector... the other planet, Axum (Solis III ) was the capital of a power known as the Azure Imperium before the establishment of the Old Republic...

When the Azure Imperium became part of the Republic - presumably very early in its history, and perhaps even at its inception - Axum chose to let Coruscant take up the burden of government; but Anaxes became the "Defender of the Core", the base of the Old Republic's main strategic fleet and the site of its main Military Academy...

The Old Republic which supposedly didn't have a navy...

It's clear enough, too, that this fleet existed under the "thousand year Republic" - the Citadel, the Command/Academy complex on Anaxes, was built only seven hundred years before the movies...

And under the Empire, Anaxes retained its importance as the headquarters of Azure Hammer Command, the strategic fleet for Oversector Zero...

Now, to explain this continuity of military preeminence for a thousand generations - a hypothesis: the fleet based at Anaxes was in origin, and remained in theory, the battlefleet of the Azure Imperium; the incorporation of the Azure Imperium into the Old Republic as a member state meant primarily the incorporation of an Imperial infrastructure... in short, the Imperium didn't have to feel that it had stopped being the imperial protector of Galactic peace, and the Old Republic could claim not to have a military, because it incorporated the dominant military power in the Galaxy as an autonomous member state...

Obviously, over time, individuals and groups would view all this in different ways; some would stress that the fleet at Anaxes was the Republic's military, others would insist that it was just another member state; some would call to increase its role, others would hanker to replace it...

But, on the whole, it solves a lot of problems: this would explain why, in HttE, Pellaeon can think of himself as having served in the "Imperial Starfleet" for fifty years - it's been the Imperial Starfleet not just for fifty years, but since before the formation of the Old Republic... we could hypothesize that, after running away to space and joining Judicial at fifteen, he transferred (through the Academy on Anaxes?) to the Imperial Starfleet; and this would also ties in nicely with his "military, not political" attitude... politics is what Coruscant does, not Anaxes...

This would also explain why the Historical Battleship Preservation Association objected to the red havod alloy hulls of Admiral Kendel's batch of ISDs (SWAJ #10) as a breach with a thousand years of tradition - red ships are Republic ships - consular ships, judiciary pickets, and transports serving the Army of the Republic (though some of these could be commanded by officers on secondment from the Imperial navy); but the ships of the Imperial Starfleet have always been grey...

Now, this also has further possible implications for the OOB at Endor. Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik, who took command at Endor after the deaths of Palpatine and Vader, is said to have been in charge of Imperial forces in the Core; it has been suggested in another thread that this meant primarily Azure Hammer... now, did he just bring one Star Destroyer with him?

Consider that Teshik and Pellaeon were both, according to this hypothesis, Anaxes-based officers: could it be that the fleet which Thrawn uses as his primary strategic force - including Chimaera, Bellicose, Stormhawk, Death?s Head, Judiciator, Nemesis, Minotaur, Relentless, and Adamant - is, in fact, what remains of Azure Ham

 

"It's only a hypothesis, but I like it!"

Ditto!

 

Interesting hypothesis ThrawnMcEwok.

When I bought Courscant and the Core Worlds, my favorite entry was that one on Anaxes. I would personally like to know what exactly happened to the world when its last commander turned it over to the New Republic. I imagine that once it became a New Republic member that some force was stations there. I would not be at all surprised to learn that to learn that one of the NR's five main fleets was homeported at Anaxes.

--Adm. Nick

 

Has it been stated there's a difference between the REPUBLIC having an army and individual PLANETS having an army.

Perhaps the technicality of a "pacifist" Republic without a military is simply for prestige, despite the member planet's holding a military.

 

Vague implications tending to complete fabrications.

Mickey Analysis (tm), at its best.

 

Bob:

That is just plain rude. What you posted constitues spam, as it added nothing to the discussion.

--Adm. Nick

 

Spam is off-topic discussion.

There is no real evidence behind Mickey's thesis. It simply points out the long history of the Imperial Starfleet and the history of Anaxes, and ties them together with the weakest strings of association.

Because of the lack of factual basis, it is not falsifiable, and thus not part of any possible rational discourse. My entire point has always been what is the point of bringing up these random possibilities; no real remark or critique or support can be made. All that is left to say is "well, that's an interesting idea."

And, I might add, this kind of epistemological perspective is the origin for all manner of pseudoscience and whatnot. It is not healthy or contributing in any real way to our knowledge or understanding. It is at best extraneous and at worst misleading. I look down on it because, as a friend of mine once remarked, "it is a doctrine of devils."

There's not even suggested implication in this place from which his remarks are divined. It is fabrication.

And since these are pretty unique to Mickey, I have deemed them part of a generalized phenomenon that I like to call Mickey Analysis (tm). I did not, here, actually state my own subjective opinion about the quality (by whatever standard you measure that) of Mickey Analysis (tm). If you think its stupid, you filled that in, not me.

 

It's hypothesis like this that keep this forum alive Bobby. McEwok simply has a way of fostering it which sadly you seem unable to grasp.

 

This forum's been kept alive by making stuff up?

There's a difference between rational analysis, the stuff of science, logic, true knowledge and fabrication.

Answer the post. Is this thesis falsifiable or not?

 

If you read, he's not making things up. He's taking the fact that Anaxes was the central Old Republic fleet base (despite the Old Republic suppousedly not having one), and infering that it would be the central command base of the Imperial fleet.

 

Asserting that the Imperial Starfleet was always the Axum Imperium's starfleet since the beginning of the Republic on and continued along that path until the end of the Republic has no basis in fact.

Nor does the idea that Thrawn's core SD force was part of AZHAMMERCOM in anyway supported by anything.

Not that I dislike the hypothesis intuitively, I in fact find it very compelling and attractive, and was just considering somehow encorporating it into my fanfic(s), and may ask the author for his permission in its use.

The problem is it simply not possible to disprove it, which ipso facto removes it from rational discourse.

 

Changes nothing, that this is still useless speculation.

All we know is, that Anaxes was an important world of a pre-OR empire and that during the time of the GalacticEmpire it housed an academy and a major fleet-command.

What it was during the time of the old republic isn´t known.

One also has to wonder, why Palpatine has to beg for ships in Shatterpoint, if the OR already has a Navy.

Such baseless speculation as done by TME is not only useless, but also dangerous, because it prepares the ground for brainbugs.

In the confines of a fictional universe those can become very quickly "reality", if there is enough time and simple-minded people, who are easy to impress and have faith in their fellow posters.

Examples for such brainbugs are,

-that stormtroopers can´t hit the wall of a barn, although in most instances they performed better, than real-life-soldiers and when not they were under orders to not harm their opponents,

-exploding bridge-panels killing people in StarTrek (although those first appeared in a CHARAKTER-Test in "TWoK")

or - to come back to SW -

a galactic barrier, which prevents hyperspace-travel outside the galaxy, which was folklore in NJO, but i´ve read posts from people here at this board, who really think, that this is the case.

 

"Oooh, but Jello, it cannot be true! You're crushing creativity at work! Not the creativity! Anything but the creativity!"



I don't say things because they're not true, or for kicks, you know. Its because patterns repeat themselves.

 

Because of the lack of factual basis, it is not falsifiable, and thus not part of any possible rational discourse. My entire point has always been what is the point of bringing up these random possibilities; no real remark or critique or support can be made. All that is left to say is "well, that's an interesting idea."

And, I might add, this kind of epistemological perspective is the origin for all manner of pseudoscience and whatnot. It is not healthy or contributing in any real way to our knowledge or understanding. It is at best extraneous and at worst misleading. I look down on it because, as a friend of mine once remarked, "it is a doctrine of devils."

Karl Popper is alive, and posting in the JC.

i used to be an Ewok basher until he explained to me that he's intentionally reading against the text, essentially undermining the fictional orthodoxy of the equally fictional SW mythos.

these "useless speculations" have value as games that can be played to subvert and undermine the myth of consensus, allowing for the same text to support mutliple, contested readings, which allows the reader a degree of agency and a chance to claim ownership of the canon to some degree. subverting the canon is fun and educational for the whole JC family.

 

Well, then, Jello, I will see you on the field of discourse, where hopefully truth will be hammered out of the raw ore of opposing paradigms.

 

I was under the impression that Pellaeon was educated at the Raltiir academy.

Perhaps the relationship between the Azure Fleet and the OR was sorta like a client state or paramilitary entity; the OR gave Anaxes money or something, and Anaxes in return allowed their navy to be used or commmanded by the OR to some degree.

We still don't know what happened to the Whelm, though.

 

subverting the canon is fun and educational for the whole JC family.

Wow. That just says all that needs to be said about my exasperated state and this board.

And Karl Popper is correct, so why should I feel bad for citing his contribution to the philosophy of science?

 

I'm sorry, but I really can't figure out the purpose of this thread...

Are you talking about the difference between local militias and a true OR starfleet in an attempt to explain this Anaxes planet?

And I gotta agree with Lord_Darth_Bob on this one. Some things must be taken at face value, otherwise the whole of our perceptions will fall apart. I have enough trouble sorting out real life stuff, which is why I prefer Star Wars and Star Trek to be slightly more cut and dried.

Sometimes a lightsaber is just a lightsaber.

 

Hey, cool! As the guy who made up Anaxes, I'm pretty excited to see this thread.

Has it been stated there's a difference between the REPUBLIC having an army and individual PLANETS having an army.

Perhaps the technicality of a "pacifist" Republic without a military is simply for prestige, despite the member planet's holding a military.

Don't know if that's been stated, but it's pretty much what I had in mind. The politicians on Coruscant say all sorts of noble-sounding things, and the Jedi bill themselves as the thin blue/green line between the galaxy and chaos, but there's plenty of military power out there, officially under the command of individual worlds/sectors, but really under the (rarely invoked) command of Coruscant. When the Separatists begin to rear their heads, individual planets' loyalties are no longer assumed and absolute central control is sought, leading to the introduction of formal military structures and a retirement of euphemisms about how things worked before.

(Please note that none of that is "official" -- it's just an attempt to share what I was thinking about Anaxes and its history, for better or for worse.)

Regarding the original hypothesis, certainly I meant for the Azure Imperium to be a major pre-Republic power, with Anaxes as its fortress. So that hypothesis and what I quoted above could fit together nicely. As for "Imperial," I always assumed that could be explained as mere loyalty among those who saw the Empire as a worthy/tolerable successor to the Republic. (Though connecting it to the Azure Imperium's pretty clever.)

One note: "Sector Zero" reflects a stupid mistake by me. The reference is from p. 62 in SHIELD OF LIES, only what Lando actually says is that the triple zeroes would put them in "Sector One." Ack! If I ever get a chance to try a fix, what I have in mind is that Sector Zero and Sector One are the same thing and used interchangeably by spacers. Zero reflects the triple zeroes (thinking about them led to the screwup), while One reflects the fact that the oversector always comes first on the list when conditions within the Empire's various oversectors are reviewed.

Anyway, I'll step out now. Glad to see my little world sparked such cool ideas....

Jace

 

Yay! I was right

 

Jason:

What do you think became of Anaxes once it became part of the New Republic? Did it resume its role as a major military installation and house a New Republic fleet tasked with defending the Core?

What is your idea/opinion on this?

--Adm. Nick

 

I bet things went on as they had. I tried to make Anaxes represent a tradition that was far older than the Empire and obviously far nobler. The EU is full of Imperial officers who concluded, reluctantly at first, that the Empire was hopelessly corrupt and switched sides -- one imagines that many of them had been on Anaxes and/or brought up to believe passionately in what it stood for, and that the Rebels tried to woo them during the civil war. Which was, after all, to restore the Republic.

(Of course, there would also be some equally passionate Imperial officers shaped by Anaxes to believe in order, service and sacrifice. They'd argue that the Empire's excesses and mistakes weren't nearly as bad as the chaos of another civil war.)

Seems to me that this "Anaxes class" of old-line starfleet officers would be a huge power bloc in any galactic gov't -- Republic, Empire or NR -- and the NR, like its predecessors, would do everything it could to continue to revere Anaxes' traditions. Similarly, any reduction of Anaxes' military status would have terrified the Core Worlds, which I bet were already nervous about being ruled by people long painted as spreaders of disorder.

But of course that's totally unofficial -- and doesn't account for anything the Vong (who at least had a foothold there at one point) might have done to it.

Jace