Attack of the Clones sucked...

I kinda realized that if I wasn't a Star Wars fan, I probably wouldn't have liked AOTC...the plot isn't so great, the acting is bad, the direction is bad (re: acting is bad)...

What I loved so much about this movie was just seeing more about the SW universe, the jedi, coruscant, the history on tatooine w/ owen, beru, 3P0, Shmi...but outside of that, I don't think I would have liked the movie from an outsider's point of view...

 

But it was definetely better than EpI.

 

I'm gonna be the first (wait... the second) to say that the new Prequel trilogy just doesn't have the flair of the OT. One of the main reasons I think I like the OT so much is a few of the actors (not necesarily the acting mind you). Ewan, Natalie, and Yoda are the real reason I keep coming back for more and more. Hayden... what was George thinking? I honestly think my dog could've acted better than that. I think another problem was that George wasn't going to let anyone even think about touching his brainchild, and it suffered because of it. George is a great storyteller and visionary, but not a great writer or director. Also, am I the only one that thinks George "plays for the other team"?

 

Um...why do you care?

And what would it have to do with his creative abilities?

 

Why do I care that the movie sucks from an outsiders POV, or why does ObiMcd care if he thinks George bats from the other side of the plate?

 

Anyway, I think his ex-wife and and his ex-girlfriend (think Linda Ronstadt) would disagree w/ you.

Back on topic: The OT was filled w/ horrible acting/dialogue, but it never stopped us from falling in love w/ the ideal.

 

True this is ZOO. Mark was not that great of an actor. The only ones worthy of mention are James Earl Jones and Carrie Fisher. Everyone else was quite bad even Mr. Ford. If you read the faces carefully of Mark and Harrison you can tell that they are thinking "this is ******g stupid, why did I ever agree to this." Fisher's character is at least convincing. And Jones just does an awesome voice that has meaning and power behind it.

 

I disagree about Ford (you people will learn that I will defend this man till my dying breath)

When I saw Han Solo, I was thinking "what an @$$hole!" in the first movie, and "What a scoundrel!" in the second movie...well, maybe not in those exact words, but I SAW him as being that roguish han solo character.

When I watch Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman [face_drool], Samuel L. Jackson, etc...I'm seeing actors PLAYING at being starwars characters. Liam Neeson is awesome and when I saw Qui-Gonn, I actually thought I was seeing a great Jedi Master...I just don't get that with Ewan and the gang (granted the reason I don't see Nat as padme is b/c I've had a huge thing for her since I saw Leon: The Professional, but that's not the point)

 

I don't think any of us ever went back for the acting! The special effects is what it's about, the idea is where it's at. I don't think I would care if it was all muppets, I would still like it. To say it sucked? Are you a fan? Natalie at 10? I have more questions but I'll keep them to myself.

 

As of right now, TPM and the whole OT are better then AOTC any day. But, I think Esp. 3 will blow away both TPM and AOTC combined since Esp. 3 has to cover so much, including the ending of the Clone Wars, Ankain turns into Darth Vader and the beginning of the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance.

 

ObiMcD- ....... ...forget it. I dont want to get banned.
*shakes head & walks away*


JD- I KINDA agree with you.
KINDA, SORTA, MAYBE.
Ok, yes, Liam played a great Jedi Master & Maybe Ewan doesnt come across that way. But I dont think he's supposed to. He's the YOUNG Obi-Wan. The one one who screws up Anakins training. Qui-Gon would have had more success(IMO) so we cant really put those guys on the same level, in relation to being Jedi. As actors, I think Ewan performs his part well, as Liam did. What I think the PT lacks as compared to the OT is the relationships between all the main characters. In the OT, there was chemistry between.... well, everyone! Am I the only one who thinks things would be more interesting if Ewan & Natalie had some actual scenes where they interact as more than politician & Jedi? I think there is some wasted space there. I'm not suggesting a love triangle, but it seems like everyone has their own story that has to be told so we miss out on some stuff. Almost like a bunch of little movies, which occasionaly cross paths. Even the early scene in E2 with Mace and Padme made the whole thing connect more. It put people in the same room having real conversations with each other. I think it helped a lot, cause those are 2 major players & they might have never even met (outside of battle, where they dont even interact).
In the OT, I think you get the feeling that everyone is connected at all times. Everything that any of them does affects the others. Even is ESB, they were only in the same room once, but they were a team & we all knew it. This new group of characters operate independently from each other, so its hard to grasp that emotional connection between all the major players. The PT may not have the same feel as the OT, but it's a different story, told for different reasons with a different outcome.
& I still love it.

OW- I know this may make you cringe, but your a film expert & I'm not. I like Hayden. I think he does a great job. Some people say he comes across sometimes as wooden or dry, or even just plain bad. But I actually think he plays the part the way it should be played. Maybe this will sound funny, but early on, when I went through all the scenes that I found "questionable" from an acting perspective, I would try to imagine Anakin as Vader. Meaning: put the mask on him, put the cloak & the suit on him & a lot of those lines dont seem like bad acting. They seem creepy and dark, as if something is going on that we as the audience almost cant grasp. That kid is freakin out like 24 hrs a day. Hes the "chosen one" who ends up killing everyone instead of saving them. Thats quite a role to play. He cant be too likeable, he cant be too evil, he cant be too in the middle. He's almost schizophrenic (sp?), but not. I cant think of how he could have played it better. Ok, some scenes (the meadow) are.... tough to watch, but overall I think he did very well. Maybe after E3 you'll feel differently. I think I will (even though I already like the performance), because I dont think we can acturately assess his total performance until all the movies are out & we see his complete transformation.


.... but thats just me

 

AHPR Speaks!!!

I agree that Hayden may not have been what most people wanted from Anakin. However, I believe that his performance had merit. And I think that his performance was appropriate for the character. He was supposed to be an 18-19 year old kid (one who had once been a slave and was forced to abandon his mother, with whom he was closely bonded), not a mature and reserved Jedi like his master. We needed to see his impatience, we needed to see his angst, we needed to know that he was not smooth, and we needed to feel his flaws. He is unsure about his on nature and more importantly, uncertain about his place in the grand scheme of things. For all of those things, I think Hayden did a sufficient job. No one is going to be 100% happy w/ anyone in this role, because we have such enormously high expectations of the character.

 

right on ZOO!

good topic JD. I was the mood for a good debate & that allowed me to let off some steam, while staying calm & discussing something fun like a movie.


WHO ELSE WANTS SOME!!!!!!!!

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that I enjoyed TPM more than AOTC. TPM at least had a recognizable plot, whereas AOTC was just a series of large action sequences strung together with the flimsiest of pretenses.

It's not that I don't like AOTC, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I think, however, a lot of people (myself included) were so jaded by a new Star Wars movie being released, they lost perspective on the theatrical credibility of the movie. I may have only seen TPM 4 times, but I saw each showing over a period of 3 months. AOTC was a different story. I saw it 4 times in the first four days, but have gone back to see it again only once since the opening weekend. I'll probably go and see it on the I-Max, but only because I want to view the big action scenes on an enormous screen to see what I might have missed.

 

ok here I go... lol

I agree wholehearted with Cory. I mean, AOTC is good...for s star wars movie. Otherwise it flat out sucks. No one knows what the hell is going on. No one knows the plot from the first one or the next one so this movie by itself is already horrible. No one knows the whole deal about the clones and there are barely any references to the threat of the first movie. No one would be able to understand the Nemoidian stuff in this one, or the whole Dooku thing. That's why these things never make any money. The world isn't filled with rabid star wars fans. This is not about the OT so let's not even compare the two. It's about this movie. TPM did so well because it was a standalone movie. Sure it had to do with characters that we all knew and loved from the OT but that was it. No one knew what was going to happen and that made it great. The fact that there were OT characters just sweetened the deal. Now take the average movie goer who doesn't drool over star wars. Are they supposed to remember everything that happened in EP1 to understand EP2? Do they even care?

Acting wise? Sure, I agree with the majority of you, Liam Neeson did a great job as Qui-Gon, Ewan McGregor however; SUCKS. I don't care what anyone says, this guy does NOT act like the OT Obi-Wan (which is the thing everyone keeps saying, "he's so much like sir alec" bs). The biggest change was his EP1 OW and his EP2 OW. I can say that he was impressive in his change, but that was it. He's a terrible actor and should stick to low budget british flicks. Hayden's Anaking was actually not bad, but they could've forced him to put more emotion into it. I felt like i was watching a robot half the time. Samuel L Jackson was actually good in EP1, he seemed so wise and powerful. Imagine everyone's disappointment when one of his first lines was the goofy exciting sounding "That's Possible! He just came back from a border dispute from Ansion!" From then on, it was awful. He acted clueless through the whole movie, making us all question why he was so high on top of the jedi food chain. Not to mention his fighting skills in the movie which was just plain hokey. Like AHPR said, they need to teach this guy how to fight with a sword. Yoda's fighting was also another ridiculous part in this movie. It was put in there for all the rabid star wars geeks that salivate over ridiculously stupid crap over fictional characters, not only ficitional characters but impossibly ficitional characters. In ESB Yoda talks about not fighting and how jedi's only fight for self defense and whatnot, but yet we see him go against everything he told luke in ESB and just go ape**** at the end of this flick. Even still, he's all crippled and can barely walk? How many old people do you know do somersaults and backflips and move at lightning speed only to die of old age 20 years later? lol The Love Element...a big part of the story. Don't get me wrong. I do NOT mind watching a love story, even if it IS a Sci-Fi one, even a SW one. But when it's done so bad that it's funny, it's only brings a movie down. I can understand that it's all acting and not really REAL love but damn, they look so frigid and unconvincing that it's laughably bad. In ever scene, Natalie Portman looks like she hates Hayden lol and is being forced to say what she does, awful, just plain awful it is. Jango Fett and Boba are just flat out fanboy stuff. I admit, I'm the biggest Fett fan, and Jango was definitely cool. But they were not necessary in the story. The troopers could've easily been cloned from someone else. And the whole movie makes Jango look good and Boba look like crap. So we have all these clones, apparently pretty good badasses. And then we have Boba. Jango trained this guy personally, even to a kid his age, he's got to have a ton of knowledge. And yet in the OT he just sucked. And he's supposed to be coming back for more in EP3? Give us a break.

In closing I guess, I would just have to say that Ep2 DID suck...as just a movie. When you add them all t

 

ok, back to the original statment (that i didnt really address); E2 - by itself as a stand alone movie.
OK, maybe it wasnt as good as..... whatever.
But its not a 'stand alone' movie. its part 2 of 6. how could it possibly stand alone. If every episode was.... "complete", they would seem more like a TV show. Everything gets explained, hashed out, and tied up in each single episode.
Thats not Star Wars.
Just imagine "to be continued" at the end of each movie. maybe you'll like it more.

JO- I dont have time right now (damn work!! , but I'll be back to you later. real quickly: I agree with some(yes, make Sam learn to swordfight. dont just rely on his "coolness"), but disagree with most.
I cant believe you called out Yoda. [face_shocked] he WAS defending the 2 guys on the floor!!! thats how Dooku got away. Thats what his priority was.

ok, Im gonna get snagged. bbl

 

I have to agree with what JD and JO have been saying. I was very dissapointed with the final film. The premise was good, but several parts of the movie were virtually worthless, and leaves the movie very slow and plodding, with precious little time spent on the important part of the story: Why are the separatists leaving the Republic, and what kind of threat are they?

The Padme assasination part, and the detective work following it, is really a small part of the big picture (impending civil war), but instead it dominates the movie, turning it into a bad Columbo episode. This movie shouldn't have been about the detective work, but instead should've shown what a threat the Separatists are (and Dooku especially), and why we should fear them.

(George still hasn't explained why the Naboo blockade was so important, other than the fact that it got Palps into the top office).

There was way too little screen time for Dooku!!! It's hard to hate/fear/like the guy since he had so little time on screen. And the important part of the Lost 20 was cut!!! We loved/hated Vader because he was eeeeevil. But we only knew he was eeeevil because he had a lot of screen time, and used it effectively. Christopher Lee wasn't given a chance to make his character into the bad guy he should've been. Just like Mace needed more screen time to prove that he is the bad@$$ that he is. (I could go on and on about how SLJ has gotten "shafted" with the Mace Windu character.)

Yoda was a joke, and it's hard to watch the final fight when you're too busy laughing at the audacity of a ninja-muppet-on-speed. And let's not forget Anakin's fetish-laced dream about his mother. (or maybe we should...//shudder//) The least George could've done is leave Anakin's hands out of the covers so we don't have serious doubts as to if he's dreaming or fantasizing. If nothing else, we should've been shown some of the images/dreams/flashbacks that Anakin was having. Instead of good drama, we get wanna-be-Cinemax-level soft porn. [face_puke]

The podrace (I mean the speeder chase) was practically useless, and was nothing more than 5 minutes of eye candy stretched out to 15 minutes of relative boredom (just look at the actors's faces for proof). Why is it so boring? We've seen it before. The speeder bike scene in ROTJ kicked much @$$, but it was the first time we saw something like that. Ani's podrace in Ep1 was weak, but helped the plot line, or at least got them off Tatooine. To have it again in this film was just a waste. BTDTGTTS. If George wants to show Anakin demonstrating his "phenomenal" piloting abilities, let's see him in a dog-fight or a space battle, like what Luke did, not this street rodding crap. Remember it's Star Wars, not Street-Rod Wars. Besides, George already did American Graffiti for that.



And the other part of SW that we all love to see, lightsaber fights, these were also too short to be really useful/fun (with the exception of the aforementioned Yoda debacle). The Landing Platform fight had a lot of beautiful stuff that was cut, and the Mace/Jango fight had more. Plus, we wanted to see more about the clones!!!



So, I was very dissaponted with AOTC, but still loved it. But I loved it because I was already a SW fan. I doubt that AOTC won any new fans to the series. IMHO.

(And I never even mentioned the love story, but if you want to see how a teenage love story should be done, go watch Spider Man. It had everything that AOTC was missing in a love story: Believeability.)

 

Why are the separatists leaving the Republic, and what kind of threat are they?
cause their being tricked by Dooku. cause not everyone likes big government. cause they want out. I have to wonder: who cares? thats the kind of thing that i think flaws the movie. too much time on politics. the good guy/bad guy lines are blurry. thats the point.
threat?- the droid army. thats their threat. we've seen them in action. we know what they can do. Heck, when I saw that the droid army was the threat, thats when I figured it was just a trick. cause we know they suck.

The Padme assasination part, and the detective work following it, is really a small part of the big picture (impending civil war), but instead it dominates the movie,
kinda. but without it, where does the love story start. thats why anakin & Padme are together. shes in danger. we need to know how much danger & from whom.

George still hasn't explained why the Naboo blockade was so important, other than the fact that it got Palps into the top office.
thats enough reason for me. why did the emperor dissolve the imperial senate in E4?
who cares?

There was way too little screen time for Dooku!!! It's hard to hate/fear/like the guy since he had so little time on screen.
maybe thats cause he isnt as evil as Vader. compare their opening scenes. Vader was evil right away. we knew it. he was supposed to be evil. maybe Dooku wasnt. I think we're supposed to like him & hope he's not all bad. maybe. remember, he was trying to turn Obi, not just choke him to death.
And the important part of the Lost 20 was cut!!!
if its important to the story, maybe E3 will cover it. otherwise-- he left, hes a bad guy. we didnt know WHY vader was bad. same for Dooku.
Mace needed more screen time to prove that he is the bad@$$ that he is. (I could go on and on about how SLJ has gotten "shafted" with the Mace Windu character.)
true dat yo. Mace needs more arses to kick.

Yoda was a joke, and it's hard to watch the final fight when you're too busy laughing at the audacity of a ninja-muppet-on-speed.
sorry. I love it.

And let's not forget Anakin's fetish-laced dream about his mother. (or maybe we should...//shudder//) The least George could've done is leave Anakin's hands out of the covers so we don't have serious doubts as to if he's dreaming or fantasizing.
I've heard this a lot. maybe you wont believe me, but thats not what I was thinkin when i first saw it. People started laughing & I was thinkin "jeez! hes having a nightmare! whats so funny?!" maybe thats just you guys & your own issues. LOL

If nothing else, we should've been shown some of the images/dreams/flashbacks that Anakin was having.
yeah, that might have been cool. good idea.

The podrace (I mean the speeder chase) was practically useless, and was nothing more than 5 minutes of eye candy stretched out to 15 minutes of relative boredom
ok. that was boring, but you wanted more politics?!
Why is it so boring? We've seen it before.
kinda like a lightsaber fight, right? why bother showing it again?
CAUSE ITS COOL!!! plus & it does show SOME of Anakins abilities, his relationship with Obi, and oh yeah, they do have to catch the assassin.

If George wants to show Anakin demonstrating his "phenomenal" piloting abilities, let's see him in a dog-fight or a space battle, like what Luke did, not this street rodding crap. Remember it's Star Wars, not Street-Rod Wars. Besides, George already did American Graffiti for that.
I have to agree. I wanted to see Anakin in a starship. "best starpilot in the galaxy".... ok, so SHOW ME!!!!!

And the other part of SW that we all love to see, lightsaber fights, these were also too short

maybe you thought so, but does that really add to your list of why its a bad movie? I would love a 3 hr duel, but it wouldnt make a good movie.
The Landing Platform fight had a lot of beautiful stuff that was cut, and the Mace/Jango fight had more.
but those

 

Go Josh!!!!!

I'm just having fun watching al of you go at it today.

It's nice to have something other than fan fiction to read during the day!

 

AHPR: Wow, you must have a lot of time on your hands.

While I find many of your counter-arguments to be kinda weak, I respect you for taking time to forumlate them. And I'm glad to see that we agree on a few issues.

Here's something about the OT lightsaber fights that I like better than the PT fights: They were as much of a headgame as they were beautiful to watch (in the action, and the beauty of a lightsaber in motion). The OT fights were much like the old skool swashbuckling swordfights. Or even like the Princess Bride, or Three musketeer style of fights, without the comedy . It was as much about what was said during the fight as it was the fight itself.

Although I loved watching the QGG/OB1/Maul fight, it lacked the screen time (and lines of dialogue) on Maul's part to really make him a top notch villain. Instead of being a "World Class" villain, Maul was a throwaway villain. Not enough dialogue to make him a great bad guy. How many lines did he have? Three? This is one of GL's biggest problems with the PT --not enough screen time for the baddies. Maul could've been So much better. Instead, he looks cool and gets lopped in half way too soon.

Same thing with the fights in AOTC. It lacked the kind of dialogue that really stood out, and made you either hate/love a character. Granted, the Yoda/Dooku fight did have some decent lines, it was.... weak, IMHO. And Jango was killed off way too easy. The storyboards had SO much more action, and showed Jango to be a bigger threat than he was in the final film. So he goes out like a putz, just like his boy did. (Granted, i knew Jango would lose his mango, but he shoulda put up a better fight.)

So, in a nutshell, GL really should have spent more time in TPM and in AOTC building up the bad guys more (specifically the Nemoidians), and making them see... more dangerous, or more imposing, or... something. Something better than cheesy accents, bad rubber masks and flimsy battledroids.



And sorry, but I didn't believe the love story in AOTC one bit. That's what I loved about Spider Man's love story. I could believe it. I believed the acting, and the people. I fell in love with them in the movie. I think that AOTC's love story's acting & delivery was way too wooden to actually believe. Besides, it's missing great lines like "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookie." and "I know."

Sorry, but I think the great flanneled one is spending too much time and money on the special effects department, and not enough on the story, dialogue and the plot development side.

 

[face_shocked] DUDE!!?? "weak"? WEAK?!?!






ok, you've got some points. I guess I can sum up with this: too much story, too little time.

the OT was about Luke & the gang. the PT is about everyone we never even wanted to meet. I dont want more about the nemoidians. they're just worthless bad guys.
what do we know about....oh... say.... Tarkin ? nothin. hes a bad guy. enough said.

hmmmmm. maybe ANH would have been better if he had explained his reasons for being so bad,

but I doubt it.

 

just because it's part 2 of a 6 part series means it's ok to be crappy? Look at the ALIENS series, yeah, the last ones suck but Alien and Aliens were standalone movies even though part of the whole aliens saga. Not only that but they were GOOD. And what about Blade and Blade II? Two different movies, you can watch one and not the other and still know what is going on. AOTC doesn't have that, you have to know all the other movies to know what's going on. What about Star Wars? or Empire? they're standalone movies. You don't have to watch Star Wars to enjoy Empire. I don't want to be bored by some lame story, we all know Star Wars is a pretty weak story right? at least I HOPE. We watch it for the cool effects and stuff, screw the lame story. Anakin becomes Vader...ok, so get on with it and show more fights. I don't care if it has nothin gto do with the plot, i want to see Star Wars because it's fun, not to be bored by some complicated storyline.

 

ESB is a stand alone movie?!! yeah, thats right, I forgot. Han isnt really important- he gets frozen.- why didnt he say "I love you too"?, why did his "friend" betray him? maybe he's alive, maybe he's dead. oh well, who cares- roll credits.
DUDE!! I am so sick of people saying that! you know why you can watch it now & it makes sense by itself?
cause you know what happens! think back to '82. we were all waiting for the next one to explain the last one.
JUST LIKE WE ARE NOW.

EDIT: oh i just remembered that little "I am your father" thing that MIGHT have made ROTJ a neccesary next chapter to ESB. That was kindof a big loose end, dont you think?


Aliens, Blade?! those arent sagas. they ARE just movies. stand alone movies, that keep getting expanded on depending on popularity. (please dont compare Blade to SW. I just watched Blade. if you want a good story, look elsewhere.)

Anakin becomes Vader...ok, so get on with it and show more fights.

so..... you want a better movie or you want the UFC with lightsabers? a good movie would show the why, the how, etc.. thats what the prequels do!! they show how & why!!


I feel like Im having 2 debates.
JO wants more fighty less talky.
Obey Wann wants more talky DURING the fights. & oh yeah, JD wants..... what the frell do you want from AOTC JD?

 

Lookout, Josh is on the rampage! Lock you doors and windows & hide the women and children!

 

hehehehe


what she said.