Author Analysis: Matthew Stover

Here it is -- the first big controversial author. This is a thread in which you can discuss and analyze the authors of Star Wars. Rational, intelligent discussion about the authors. No bashing allowed, but no gushing, either. Also, I don't want to hear "OMG, teh joiners suk!!111!!!!" in a Troy Denning thread, nor do I wish to hear "Stover is liek teh awsomist evar!!!11!!" -- I want actual legitimate analysis. If you can't contribute intelligently and constructively, I WILL refer you to the mods.

Sample topics for discussion: what are this author's strengths/weaknesses? What niche does this author fill in SW? What does he'she do better than anyone else? Would you like to see this author write in SW again? If this author has an upcoming book, what do you expect from it? What are some common fan responses to this author, and are they justified? However, this will not be a speculation/discussion thread for their books, but an overall look at the author as an author.


This is the third in a series: find prior threads on Micheal Reaves here and Aaron Allston here.


Go at it.

 

I like Stover's style. I dislike his ideas.

I think Traitor is the most overrated book in the EU. I found it to be good, but flawed.

Shatterpoint was an improvement. I loved the way he turned Mace Windu into a human.

Revenge of the Sith was a great adaptation of a movie rather than the script in book form. I actually prefer it to the movie, but everything after the death of Mace Windu felt rushed. I get the feeling Stover got to that point and realized he had a deadline to finish the book.

 

Well for me Stover is a VERY mixed back..

Face it: I hate hate hate Traitor.. every single part of it.. every word.. every Idea.. the fact that most everyone else talks about it like its the greatest book ever really makes it annoying.

However: I did like Shatterpoint a good deal.. one of the better Clone Wars EU for me. the Apocalypse Now feeling was nice to get in SW

As for ROTS novelization.. it was good.. but it was a movie novelization.. Matt wrote it well.. but it really wasnt his story per se.. well written yes.. but since its a movie novelization not creative (but its important to understand im not knocking him for it, its just its really impossible to rewrite something and have it be creative)

So:

Shatter Point: A
Traitor: F
ROTS: B

Average: C+

 

I actually think the subtleties in difference between the ROTS novel and movie is what makes it move beyond just a movie novelisation. Basically with every other movie novelisation we've been given something that basically follows word for word what is happening in the movie, maybe with some deleted scenes, whilst Stover was able to expand upon the movie in a way that reading the novel and watching the movie isn't just going over the same thing.

Stover seems to do low points in saga's well. He's able to show the depths people will go too, yet show there is still good around.

 

Stover writes with a confidence and style that few SW authors can match. Especially with his first two books, I really get the idea that Stover?s using the Star Wars universe as a place to tell his stories rather than simply trying to fit into a preexisting mold. He?s a master of honestly revealing the dark, morbid struggles inherent to any single life or broader society, while excels equally at portraying the heroics necessary to combat such truths. Shatterpoint remains the culmination of anything Clone Wars related for me, as the book paints an extraordinarily poignant picture of war?s ability to drastically shape and destroy elements of core humanity. It?s also the only Star Wars novel I wouldn?t hesitate to recommend to those who disdain the franchise as a whole.

I?m definitely one of those who prefers the Sith novelization to the film. Again, Stover portrayed matters of Anakin?s individual conflict in an incredibly personal and emotionally affecting manner, something that was lost amidst a sea of CGI on the big screen version. The running metaphor of the dragon turning out to be nothing but Skywalker himself was exceptionally appropriate, and served as yet another example of Stover?s brand of stylistic, literary-minded description that is usually all but non-existent in the larger world of Star Wars fiction.

And as for Traitor, I really needn?t say anything other than it?s my favorite work in the entire EU. From the physical descriptions of the action and environs seen on war-torn Coruscant, to Jacen?s philosophical awakening in which Stover has no qualms about painting the force in a bold, trenchant manner, Stover not only hits the right high points here, he redefines them.

 

I've never understood the popularity of the ROTS novelization. In my opinion, the novel adds very little to the understanding of the film (with the possibile exception of Dooku's introspection early in the book). I respect Stover for having his own unique style (best seen in Shatterpoint) but the grammar is horrendous throughout ROTS. There are sentences that are literally a paragraph long.

I apppreciate a different style -- i really do, but at a certain point it becomes distracting. The opening battle aboard Grevious' ship was generic action, the middle of the book was slow and plodding, and the end was rushed. The worst Star Wars novel I've read since 'Dark Rendevous'...

-The Jawa Jedi

 

I think that Stover injects a lot of his personality into his books, as was evident at CIII. I thought Traitor was fantastic, Shatterpoint was breathtaking, and Revenge of the Sith was the sort of novel that you just wanted to applaud at the end of. It remains one of my all time favorite SW books.

If you read his non-SW material (particularly the Caine books), you'll see that his style has definately found a home with the Star Wars universe. In fact, I prefer it. The death of Ganner, the confrontation of Palpatine, and (most notably) the "Jedi Trap" have all become the most staple moments of Star Wars for me. I hope that after "Caine: Black Knife," he comes back to write some more.

 

Matthew Stover is my most favorite Star Wars author ever, and in my opinion, the best there is

"Traitor" was an absolute masterpiece. It completely changed me, and completely changed the way I look at the Force. It was a revolution in itself of the Force and light and dark and completely changing the point of view on the Yuuzhan Vong and Jacen Solo. Its intense psychological drama was stellar and Vergere's teachings were biblical. The entire book was a sack of amazingly memorable quotes and lines that are literally earth-shattering when you read them. It's an existential masterpiece.

"Shatterpoint" was a little too absolute for me. Mace Windu was stubbornly devoted to the Jedi and refused to accept the intense relationship between the Light and Dark side (ie, no such thing as either). Also, it felt too much like a Vietnam war movie, or Apocalypse Now!. There were no blasters due to some fungus that prevented them from firing or something, and it lost all feel of a Star Wars novel halfway in. Other than that it was a great book.

"Revenge of the Sith" was stellar. In some cases, it was BETTER than the movie, the psychological drama absolutely intense, and the way it tortured Anakin was just so perfect! The way it described how the characters felt at certain times, and refered to Anakin's fear as a dragon, which eventually Vader destroyed, and was eventually revealed there was no dragon, no Vader, only Anakin, who killed Padme. The only problem I had with it was too much dialogue. Since it was a book and couldn't fully portray the action of the movie, it had to rely on some dialogue, but in some cases it was too much, like the yelling between Obi-Wan and Anakin during the Battle of the Heroes, and the too much dialogue during the standoff with Palpatine and Windu and Anakin, and the unnecessary dry humour when Anakin was killing the Separatist leadership.

Matthew Stover is amazing and I wish to read more of his work, but the bookstores I go to never EVER have any of his non-Star Wars books in stock. Very annoying

 

Matt Stover is one of the best fantasy authors, period. I've read all of his SW & non-Sw books and can't get enough of them.

And I praise him every day for one simple line: "This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: There is no dark side."

 

I feel exactly the other way around. I read far too many negative opinions on Traitor and far too many positive ones on Shatterpoint. I hate hate hate an Apocalypse Now feeling in SW.
Of course, Traitor is not the best book ever, but I thought it was really good (and one of the best in NJO).

 

Stover writes with a sense of sophistication (if not actual sophistication---that's left to the eye of the beholder) that is rare in the EU; the long and short of it is he seems to take the work intensely seriously, a feeling I don't get from all or even most of the EU submissions out there.

My perception is that Stover likes to serve as something akin to the straw that stirs the contemporary EU. Of course, that's mainly an observation of Traitor. Shatterpoint might represent one of the bigger tasks of recent EU: giving personality and depth to Mace Windu. It's impossible to advance Mace beyond the flat, "Samuel L. esque" image from the prequels, and it's to Stover's credit that he layered enough depth on the character to give it some gloss, rather than taking it in directions that wouldn't conform to Lucas' own character.

I thoroughly enjoyed the ROTS novelization and regard Stover as an excellent choice for the task. There was some portions that I found curious---for some reason, it really bothers me that Obi-Wan and Anakin are in effect galactic superstars---but I found the work to be more novel than novelization, which is to Stover's credit.

Like anyone who does things differently, Stover is both loved and reviled, it would seem and as this "Wisdom of the Crowds" type thread would probably reveal. I'd rather appreciate him than lavish him with praise (or, alternatively, hate him for taking Jacen down a highly questionable path). Stover composes his EU as a professional; there's a lot of EU crap, but---like it or lump it---he doesn't do crap.

 

Matt Stover's novels, I know I enjoy. Outside SW as well as in...

They're stylish, red-blooded, and impressively deep - not in a philosophical sense, but simply as prose.

Normally I'm a fast reader (maybe too fast!) - but Matt is one of the few authors who I read slowly, where I'll go back over scenes or chapters two or three times while I'm reading...

For fun!

I also know that I read a level of farce and black comedy in at least some of his stuff that a lot of other people don't seem to see there...

And because I'm... well, me, I'd hesitate to say I was reading them entirely the way they were written...

But, right or wrong, I emphatically don't think that any element of farce overpowers, or detracts from, the action, meditation, or sheer reading pleaure...



- The Imperial Ewok

 

I quite liked the parts I read of Traitor. Been trying to get my hands on Shatterpoint so I can judge that. The ROTS novelization had major pacing issues, but I didn't have problems with his writing style. I don't necessarily like what he writes, especially when it doesn't make sense in the greater EU context. I did find the way he wrote battles to be more about the combat forms than the people involved sad, especially when he got the forms wrong in the process.

Part of my problem with Stover is that he seems to be affecting a Zahn-like EU prima donna status I'm not sure he's earned, mostly in relation to the ROTS novelization. Also, he clearly plays character favorites, and some of his extended metaphors get very tired.

 

What character favorites does he play?

 

Answer from that crowd is usually Mace, though I happen to not think that's really true.

- Keralys

 

Thats because he's the only character Stover was able to write about in more than one novel...I'm not sure that means he is playing favorites. I don't even think he was often looked at in a favorable light in both Shatterpoint and ROTS.

 

I'd actually say Kenobi, though that may be issues with characterization (haven't read Shatterpoint, withholding judgment on Mace, but "Vaapad" as REAL ULTIMATE POWAH also bugs me ). The Kenobi that lies through his teeth to Luke throughout the OT isn't there, and the Kenobi that abandons Anakin to die isn't really there either. I also don't see Obi-Wan as that humble about his abilities, especially in ROTS itself ("Hello, there!"). He struck me as overly perfect. That said, don't have the book on hand and this is my retained impression of it.

 

This entry broken up by headers to save my freakin' eyes.

---

[i]he Kenobi that lies through his teeth to Luke throughout the OT isn't there,[/i]

That Kenobi could easily be the product of the most massive treachery in Galactic history plus 19 years of living in some Forceforsaken hellhole south of the Jundland Wastes.[i]

and the Kenobi that abandons Anakin to die isn't really there either. [/i]

Also, that is the ".... God I just can't do it. He's unarmed ... literally ... plus I told Yoda ... I can't kill Anakin." Scene.

And the "Hello there!" Is just a nice little cocky "don't **** with a Jedi Master son" that we've seen from many a Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are ... Even the older, more experienced ones.

Anyway.[hr]

When I picked up TRAITOR, I had no idea what sort of thing I was in for. When I was reading it the first time, back in summer of 2002, I thought Stover just had a very beautiful writing style. After a while, I decided to reread TRAITOR, something I hadn't had occasion to do with much of the NJO due to the fact that they came out every few months, I already had a two years' late start on it, and the primary reason, much of it was just eughhhhhhh and read as a necessary evil to get to what I hoped would be better novels.

Upon rereads of TRAITOR I began to notice that I really liked the grittier style of this book. I liked the narrative, I liked the fact that it made you think twice, I liked the fact that it could easily cause you to do something none of us has been able to do for 22 years, since we'd done it the first time - to Unlearn What We Had Learnt. It also said one thing that I had accepted as "......... duh." since I had got into Star Wars: "The light and dark are within oneself".

HOW OBVIOUS COULD THAT HAVE BEEN?! You don't magickally become Sith without choosing to do so! Dooku didn't leave the order at 70 years of age and, after having been a "good guy" all his life, decided it was time to switch things around a bit. Hell, even in JEDI KNIGHT: DF II we made a choice each time we played, whenever a civilian got in our damn way, to shoot them in the throat or wait for them to move. This choice, made entirely by the player, led to lightness, darkness, or greyness.

Stover also made a character I had previously not given a monkey's about in each of her appearances absolutely worth reading about. Vergere, or as some on these boards call(ed) her, Original Recipie, suddenly became interesting. How could she not, everything she said was a lie. Or was it the truth? She kept you guessing, and all the while you weren't sure if she was a good guy or bad guy.

There are no good guys or bad guys. It's that pesky point of view thing again.

My favourite scene in TRAITOR however, was Ganner's Last Stand. Throughout the NEW JEDI ORDER he had been a whiney primadonna, and when I read his name along with Vergere's on the [i]Dramatis Personae[/i] I was worried.

He completely redeemed himself as a character in his actions at the Well of the World Brain.[hr]

Before I start sounding like a gusher, I did not like SHATTERPOINT all that much. I found it hard to get into, and have never really had the opportunity to get back into it. Granted, I first read SHATTERPOINT at an extraordinarily difficult time in my life and my mind may not have been the most focused, but still. Can't seem to get into SHATTERPOINT at all.

At some point though, I decided that SHATTERPOINT notwithstanding, I would like to read more of Matthew Woodring Stover's work. I went out and bought HEROES DIE and BLADE OF TYSHALLE. These two books took me several months to read each, mainly because I stopped at some point in the middle of both and just said "ok, holy crap". As soon as I picked them back up though, it was as if I'd never stopped. Caine's revelations (to be cliche) made certain I couldn't put down the book, which nearly got me into huge trouble at UK customs.

Yes, Stover's non-SW work (and even, in some instances, his SW work) is very much unfit for children, but that may be part of what I like

 

Well, um, basically my opinion of Stover is fairly gushy.

Traitor: This book is great! Vergere's seduction of Jacen Solo is the EU equivalent, IMO, of Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. It's been awhile since I read this, but Stover writes falling to the Dark Side so beautifully.

"And in that red cloud, Jacen found all the power he needed."

*chills*

Shatterpoint: Like someone said above, Stover did a fantastic job of fleshing out Mace, but at the same time, not making him utterly unlike his movie self. He's cocky, arrogant..but that the same time, believes wholly in his duty and in His Sense Of What Is Right And Wrong. And the little novella in the back of the paperback about the marooned clones is excellent too.

Revenge of The Sith: Have you ever known that you're just going to love a book from the very first damn page? The prologue to this novel is superb.

"Just two. Two is enough, because the younglings are right, and the adults are wrong. Though this is the end of an age of heroes, it has saved it's best, for last."

I was practically cheering in my head by the end of that passage. I usually think of that last line right about when Anakin & Obi-Wan swoop into battle at the start of the film, and tend to get a lump in my throat as a result.

This man can do no wrong, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I left that part out because I thought my response was too long and gushy as it was, but holy crap, that prologue bit ...

I read the first page as soon as I got it and it was all I could do to stop myself and wait to see the movie.

I kinda wish I'd read it before seeing it though




Icon teams are reading minds now, eh?

 

I have rather mixed feelings about M. Stover. I haven't read Traitor or Shatterpoint so it will be hard for me to draw a definite conclusion on his work. I do respect the fact that he took a rather one-dimensional Mace Windu and gave him depth.

Regarding Revenge of the Sith, I found his style of writing interesting, if not always appealing to me personally. The 'This is how it feels to be [this character]' scene shots were interesting at first, but after reading several of them, they became repetitive and boring. hey lost impact. If I were his editor, I would have asked him to cut them down.
Also, his characterizations were off. His interpretation of Obi-Wan as a one-dimensional saint took away the edges that make his character relatable to the audience. He also missed the mark on Padme, (completely misreading her character's inner contemplation in vital scenes). of course, characterization is always subjective but that was no excuse for one-dimensionism (sp?).

All the same, I have to give him credit for making the book read, as someone said earlier, as a novel and not just a novelisation. In general, there were more hits than misses with his work.

 

Windu wasn't one-dimensional; he had enough Ongoing and Republic comic appearances before Shatterpoint to see him in detail. Making mistakes in Acts of War; dignified and diplomatic (and later feeble) in Emissaries to Malastare; hardcover-hater-kicking in Schism, etc.

 

Actually, I'm referring to his potrayal in the films alone. The films didn't paint a lot in his character, which is perfectly understandable considering the timeframe and the fact that the focus of the movies are always on the main characters.

 

I can't say enough good things about Matt Stover.

He has a way of writing scenes that gives me goosebumps. Literally. No other author has made me FEEL his work. I remember the first time I read Ganner's Last Stand...my jaw dropped. It was just a beautiful scene.

He also has a way of tying things together. The duels on Mustafar and Coruscant come to mind. He went into how Yoda vs Sidious was Dark vs light. Yoda was light incarnate, and Sidious was dark. On Mustafar, it was just Anakin vs Obiwan. Brother vs Brother.

For some reason, that touched me.

Anyways, if you havn't read HEROES DIE, you need to. I like his non-SW work better than his in universe stuff.

 

What book did you read? Not only did Jacen not fall to the "dark side," but Stover himself doesn't even believe in the "dark side" so he'd never write someone falling to it.