Carnor Jax as a ruler

I've been considering a fanfiction. So question to those who have read Crimson Empire/ CEII:

How is Jax depicted? I've heard that he was a capable administrator. Was a he a good ruler during the interim? Was he a Palpatine-style absolutist despot, or was he more of a Pellaeon-styled lenient dictator?

 

Canor Jax has his ups and downs as a ruler. He pretty much forfeited the Empire's momentum during the Dark Empire period by being responsible for poisoning the Emperor. Thus, the Empire immediately fell to pieces as soon as he took over. He was, arguably, not even the ruler of the Empire and just the largest Warlord Faction.

Nevertheless, Canor Jax did seem to understand a lot of the Empire's fundamental failings. He eliminated sexism at the highest levels, reaffirmed the Empire's corpate ties, and eliminated specism. He even had Union Labor represented as well as corporations amongst the highest levels. Canor Jax also was smart enough to move the Empire into the Outer Rim because the Core was a complete loss at this point, thus the Remnant is his doing.

Ultimately, Canor was assassinated too quickly to see how well he would have done but we should know that the Republic was continuing it's war of reconquest during his term so its unlikely he'd have really had a very good run.

 

Okay, thanks. I was thinking of portraying him as an authoritarian canny enough to use kindness to win the trust and loyalty of the masses. He would be a bit like Pellaeon, except more strong-willed and self-aggrandizing. Any regime under him, I suspect, would adopt some of the trappings of warrior nobility to win the attentions of the common people, and to reflect upon his origin as one of the elite bodyguards of the Emperor.

Charlemagne, if I read correctly, don't you believe that Jax was probably the most able of post-Palpatine rulers of the Empire? If so, how does he compare to the rulers of neo-Imperial splinter states such as Pellaeon of the Remnant? I know that there's very little information about him, but any general impressions or thoughts would be useful.

 

Carnor Jax is only in Crimson Empire and he comes off as a very typical Vader-esque villain but alot of what's illustrated in the comics and subsequently Crimson Empire II seems to indicate that he was a man that could probably have gone on to become something like Pellaeon. Compared to most Imperials, he seems to have been a gigantic liberal.

(Of course, that's like saying compared to a Wookiee, he doesn't have much hair)

Carnor Jax gets props for the fact that his 'treason' was against one of the most evil men in the entire history of the galaxy. Thus, we're kind of in the awkward position that Kir Kanos is essentially attempting to avenge the death of the galaxy's version of Joseph Stalin.

Let's face it, Carnor Jax's "betrayal" of the Crimson Guard turns out to be have been an extremely good idea since they were all hard-core fanatics that were determined to avenge their master despite his absolute madness. It's also been retconned that he eliminated the Prophets of the Dark Side with Lumiya. Frankly, this only makes it more clear that he was doing a very good job in cleaning up the mess that Palpatine had made of the galaxy.

Ultimately, I tend to think Carnor Jax wasn't even that much of an absolutist. He was Emperor of the Galaxy defacto but his technical position was head of the Imperial Ruling Council. Carnor seemed much more interested in the Augustinian REALITY of power rather than the TRAPPINGS of power. Everyone on the Council owed their position to Carnor Jax and he controlled the military absolutely but otherwise, he was willing to give the appearance of debate while seemingly letting most of their decisions stand.

Carnor killed all of the Imperial Ruling Council that disagreed with his plans to overthrow the Emperor but afterwards was pretty much content to let them cordone off portions of the Empire's functions amongst themselves so long as they answered to him. All indications were the Empire was actually functioning effectively post his death and before. That's a big change from pretty much all other periods.

While Carnor Jax was a Sovereign Protector and aspiring Sith Lord, I tend to take him as lacking much of the megolamania of other Imperial rulers. I have no doubt that Carnor was a typical Imperial power-hungry autocrat and fascist but he seemed more interested in results than sadism.

We also know that Carnor Jax admired Vader's habit of executing incompetent Generals (though in Carnor's one case of doing this-the officer genuinely was an idiot). The fact he was walking around all the time in a suit of armor indicates like Flint and Kueller, he liked the image that an Armored Black Knight projected.

 

Okay, excellent response! Thanks for your help.

Edit: It might be a stretch, but I actually want to characterize Jax as both a wily administrator but also a bit of a megalomaniac who thought himself beyond the Dark Side's control. His ultimate goal was to become the supreme ruler of the Galaxy, and becoming a Sith was only a means towards that. Whereas with Sith such as Palpatine, securing control of the Galaxy is the means, whereas the end is becoming an incredibly powerful Sith Lord who may or may not have the ability to consume everyone's life essences, or create a Sith theocracy, or something else blatantly Dark Sideish (Sidous?). But in my view Jax used the Dark Side as a means, and not even a strong a tool as the Sith view it; instead, he might have even saw himself as above the excesses of the Dark Side, and powerful enough to remain in control. (Side-question: why did he break off ties with Lumiya, again?)

Canonically speaking, maybe Jax was one of the latter. But seeing as how briefly we know him, I'd like to favor the former interpretation. And the interesting thing is that he wasn't much of a Sith, and probably wasn't all that powerful in the Dark Side, so he actually ends up being a semi-sane ruler. Of course, if you favor that he was your run-of-the-mill Sith-to-be, then he probably would have ended up just like Palpatine, Caedeus, Krayt, etc.

At least (as far as we know) he never picked up a Darth name. I wonder why Lumiya didn't, either.

 

If you've ever read Crimson Empire, his personality is very similar to Cobra Commander's in the G.I. Joe comic book: ruthless, machiavellian, self-aggrandizing and manipulative (not be to be confused with the whiny, self-important idiot in the cartoon). I'm sure he would have been very competent, and from what little we learn of him, his policy on everything seemed to be don't fix it if it ain't broke, but if you cross the line, make them beg for the sweet release of death.

 

I always wondered if Jax's favoritism towards the Army (i.e. making Wessel head of Central Command) alienated the Fleet to any significant extent?

And where was COMPNOR in Crimson Empire, anyways?

 

Possibly, on the other hand there were very few ranking Naval Officers left in the military at that point.

 

Jax comes across as very villian like, obsessed with Kir Kanos as he feels Kanos is the only one who can foil his plans to rule the Empire and presumably the galaxy? Charles Warlord term I think is a good fit meesa thinks.
Jax wanted Palpatine's throne, a stark contrast to Pellaeon who never had the ambition to rule but was slowly forced into the position over many decades. The idea of Pellaeon's Empire seemed to be that the Moff Council ruled officially, although Pellaeon himself was very influencial and held total sway over the Imperial Fleet.

Where did you get all the back ground info on Jax, Charles?

 

I got it from Crimson Empire, the Crimson Empire Handbook, The Sith Hyperspace Article, and the Essential Chronology.

Yeah, Carnor Jax was portrayed as totally evil.

Yet, it's just ironic that he kills a lot more bad guys than Kir Kanos ever did.

 

I guess I've just always maintained that there are subtleties to different sorts of evil. In my interpretation, Jax might have become a Sith- but at the time as a Sith apprentice, and one that wasn't all that powerful in the Force, and so he probably wasn't so much influenced by the Dark Side as much as he was by his own hunger for power.

 

Gotta get that NEC Thanks.

 

Lets not forget his Blim. Blim should be remembered.

 

Was Blim a mercenary or an actual Imperial officer. I don't recall seeing him having any rank bars.

Charles: There was Rogriss and those two fleet admirals from Crimson Empire II, the former who would have been far more qualified than Wessel (Wessel seems to be a sop to the Army).

Incidentally, is there any evidence to prove or disprove that the officer in Crimson Empire II commanding Ord Cantrell's defenses was actually Pellaeon (yeah, eye color and rank seem to be wrong, but that's not the first time Pellaeon's appearance or rank has been mucked around with)

 

It cannot be ignored that though he killed the right guys...it was for the wrong reasons.

Yes, he may have been a instrument of improving the status quo of the galaxy...but not because it was the best thing to do for the galaxy...because it was the best thing to do for Carnor Jax.

Carnor Jax is quite possibly the best placed and therefore most suited individual to make the warlord grab in the post Palpatine era. His ambition, from the ranks of the most loyal of slaves, caught EVERYONE offguard, and his authority, in many ways expressed by lessons he learned from Palpatine and Vader, made him the most "feared" of any of the Warlords or Admirals to head the remains of the Empire. The thing that set Jax appart from others was his stick and carrot practice...he was capable to cooperation and delegation of power. But he was also ruthless in his punishments, and made it quite clear that though he had bestowed power...he would be watching. This is something that a great many junior league warlords failed to do.

What would happen if Jax stayed in power? Unlike others, I thought his eventual death was inevitable. As Charles put it, he was more interested in power then it's trappings...which would INFURIATE those whose true desire was the trappings going to spoil. Equate that with the constant fear of being monitored, and you have the seeds of sedition, just like any other era.

Honestly, if you want a comparative character to Carnor Jax...look no further then Darth Krayt.

 

Blim was a Lieutenant and I liked the fact the Tubby guy seemed so genuinely dangerous.

True, though it might be interesting to contemplate the fact that Carnor Jax seemed more interested in micromanaging the military ala Vader style. Rogriss seems the type to have chafed under that treatment. A stable toady may seem like a bad idea but Admiral Piett didn't NEED to be smart to make the Death fleet the best in the galaxy.

It's also arguable that the Empire really needed to maintain its military presence on planets it had and consolidating its territory rather than relying on the typical fleet movements, though that's stretching it.

It's a tough call. Fundamentally, it's interesting to speculate because Carnor Jax was suceeded by Daala, the Moff's Council, and Xandel. If, somehow, Carnor Jax had sucessfully killed Kir Kanos on the Squall (and managed to recover from the debacle of losing so many men) then I have little doubt that he would have seen through Black Sun's and Nom Arnor's manipulations that collapsed the empire.

OTOH, he might have never been able to get the Warlords assassinated in the Deep Core that would have fully united the Empire or been humble enough to make peace with the New Republic. His ties with Lumiya, though, might have warned his Empire of the Yuuzhan Vong.

It's weird that some of the most interesting EU developments come from what if Thrawn had lived and a comic book miniseries villain. ;-)

 

What if the Jedi truly took a full run at Carnor Jax...Luke vs. Carnor Jax would've been stellar.

And the thing not to be forgotten...is that in almost every way that matters, Carnor Jax lives on...in Kir Kanos...it only takes that window to open in a way that doesn't include personal ambition.

Oh how I pray Kir is involved in the Fel Empire...perhaps helping create the Imperial Knights.

 

I, personally, like the idea that Carnor Jax is a clone template and...ironically...Kir Kanos is his clone.

It makes one think Carnor is probably thinking "I'm the original and will win."