Lit Casualties of the Legends Galactic Civil War

So in Legends we know the first civil war lasted over 20 years from around 2 BBY to 19 ABY both beginning and ending with a formal treaty. So what were the total casualties? Given a war of such duration, scale, and periods of varying intensity not to mention conflicts among the warlords, black sun, and various third parties it must have been tremendous.

Yet I have not found a source for any sort of official death toll. The Vong War lasted under five years(though perhaps maybe five with various holdouts) and had a death toll of 365 trillion approximately.

Surely as intense and fierce as that conflict was wouldn't the GCW have had a much higher death toll?

 

No, the Yuuzhan Vong had no respect for the lives of nonbelievers so they indiscriminately murdered planet after planet as well as destroyed vital life-saving technology.

I'm inclined to think that the Galactic Civil War had a much-much-much lower death toll.

Also, many worlds destroyed by the Empire weren't part of the conflict.

 

Planets

Note: Bolded events are atrocities committed by the Rebellion or its partisans.

* Alderaan, of course.
* The Drayden (Domain of Evil) were a race of peaceful Force-using humanoids slaughtered by the Empire for harboring Jedi Knights.
* Dentaal was destroyed by the Imperial Storm Commandos using Candalorian plague. This resulted in the defection of General Madine.
* The planet Callos was rendered uninhabitable by Darth Vader with his TIE squadron. This led to the defection of Juno Eclipse.
* The planet Caamasi was destroyed by the Empire during the early days of its existence.
* Carida was destroyed by Jedi terrorist Kyp Durron during the post-Endor clean-up.
* A peaceful non-human species was eradicated by Ubiquote (And Ysanne Isard) in order to make their planet a home base for the Empire.
* An unknown number of species were destroyed by the Imperial Dungeon Ships, including the Gulmarid, as part of Grand Admiral Ill-Raz.
* The planet Despayre which was used to demonstrate the power of the Death Star.
* The destruction of Da Soocha V by the Galaxy Gun.

Mass Murder

* The mass murder of half of the planet Sedesia by COMPNOR as part of a False Flag operation with a bio-weapon.
* The mass-execution of 200,000 Falleen by Darth Vader to contain one of his bioweapons.
* An unknown number of aliens killed by Yssane Isard and Evir Dirricote's plague.
* The persecution of the Yevetha on political and religious grounds
* The massacre of the Dantooine colony by Admiral Daala (which is a war crime she was never persecuted for). Minor casualties but still pointlessly cruel. Admiral Daala also destroyed Foamwander City and a Corellian Corvette's crew for no reason.
* The assault on Core Worlds and civilian targets from the Deep Core by Admiral Daala.
* Operation: Shadowhand which retook 1/2th of the galaxy and resulted in Coruscant becoming a massive battle ground prior to its retaking by the Rebellion.
* The near-destruction of Mon Calamari by the World Devastators.

Known Enslaved Species

* Wookies
* Mon Calamari
* Quarren
* Yevetha

Interestingly enough, the Empire seems to have primarily been more colonialist than actually genocidal in the Legends EU.

 

Perhaps but the conflict was far longer and quote intense at various points at various places and various times. Also given the off screen battles, raids, and action that the audience doesn't see survey that would up the death toll even more.

I mean really 21 year civil wars never had moderate death tolls.

Especially at the galactic scale.

 

True, but it was a guerilla campaign rather than a organized military attack. I'm inclined to think the Clone Wars had higher casaulties actually.

Look at Humbarine. That was an ecumenopolis which General Grevious destroyed.

So that might be a trillion people there.

 

In the later years of the war though the new republic fought the empire at a conventional fleet to fleet army to army level though. The clone wars as bad as they got only lasted three years. Thrown' campaigns, the reborn emperor's campaigns, Daala's campaigns and the struggle between the warlords, the nagai incursion, and so forth combined had to have had a large death toll.

 

Even after Endor though, the New Republic didn't take on the entire Imperial fleet most of the time. The Empre tore itself apart with warlords and Moffs setting up their own little kingdoms (and Palpatine hiding many fleets at Byss too), so while there were more direct fleet confrontations, there weren't as many brutal campaigns as during the Clone Wars. And the Empire was too busy to wipe out planetary populations in a whim.

The Clone Wars had plenty of big armies clashing, which is why so many planets were ruined. I remember a line from... the Rise of Darth Vader book (I think) that mentioned some of the Confederacy species could be on the verge of extinction after their homeworlds were invaded during the Outer Rim sieges. Not to mention bioweapons were useful for the Confederacy as most of their forces were droids so wouldn't be affected. The Vong were genocidal fanatics and were mostly planning to replace the local populations with their own people anyway, which is why the casualties were so high.

The Galactic Civil War was mostly a guerilla campaign, so had relatively lower casualties. The Rebellion usually tried to avoid getting civilians involved (most of them anyway), but the Empire often bombarded planets that were the site for any Rebel successes (Toprawa for instance was leveled because stolen Death Star plans were transmitted from there). If the Death Stars had lasted longer, there would have been quite a few more new asteroid belts (Dac and Chandrila were at the top of the list I think).

The Galactic Civil War lasted longer, but the early years were pretty one-sided, with Rebel cells trying to avoid being wiped out by the Empire. There were still many casualties (especially with the Empire bombarding planets often), but relatively lower compared to some of the other galactic wars.

 

What I'm wondering though is.. where's the point of divergence when it comes to the Legends GCW and Nu-Canon GCW and their respective Empires? The wrong officers promoted so the Empire lasts less in Nu-Canon? No Yuuzhan Vong so Sheev doesn't really care about having solid foundations for it?

 

I'd argue the right officers were promoted.

 

Well who were the premier holdouts? Iceheart, Daala, Thrawn, Pellaeon, Phennir? Also Sate Pestage counts, I don't think we've heard of any of them aside from Thrawn. Hmm.. maybe Amedda being chosen over Pestage changed the Empire's day-to-day strategies. In short, Amedda screws up again.

 

I think it may have more to do with the size of the Rebel Alliance. In the EU the Rebels were fairly small, even around Endor, but in Canon they are a far larger threat. When the Empire investigates the base on Dantooine, they are surprised by how large it is. Then after Yavin, the Rebels launch a mid rim campaign where they are directly engaging the Empire in open combat and taking and holding worlds. This would not have happened in Legends, where such open conflict wasn't seen until after Endor. In the EU destroying the Death Star was followed by more hit and run attacks and the Rebellion went back to being on the run. There wasn't a massive campaign where they could openly hold worlds. A stronger rebellion early in canon means that the war would end sooner because the rebels were capable of doing more damage to the Empire.

Another point of divergence would be some of the actions of Gallius Rax after Endor.

Spoiler

In the Aftermath trilogy it seems that he's funneling Imperial resources into the unknown regions while faking records of their destruction. Meanwhile, he is helping the New Republic to gain victories over the Empire while he tries to kill his rivals and to solidify his hold on the Empire and transform it into something new. Therefore, the Empire isn't losing resources solely from civil war, but the person leading the fleet is contributing to it which would make their defeat a lot easier.

 

Well, we know Armand Isard is around so presumably his daughter is still around as well. At least in Luceno books. While not necessarily the case, my take on Legends vs. NEU is that everyone is "there" just off camera unless they appear.

It's probably not true but it makes things more fun for speculation. The big difference in this universe, as a result, is the fact Gallius Rax does a really good job of making sure the Empire's dissidents and potential warlords are slaughtered or co-opted early.

That and Palpatine actually died at Endor rather than being saved by Jeng Droga.

I also give credit because while the Empire LOOKS defeated in the NuCanon. It should be noted, it never really is and just has retreated into the UR.

 

Yeah, maybe in Legends Rax was either never promoted or he's simply forced into Sheev's Dark Empire early and dies in its service afterwards.

The size of the Rebel Alliance would also be another addition. I don't think the Legends Rebels ever got Mandalorians on their side, even briefly. We also don't know if

Spoiler

Obi-Wan will play a role in the Nu-Canon Rebellion BEFORE A New Hope.

 

Yeah, I imagine the hypothetical Legends Gallius Rax is just another of Emperor Palpatine's Hands. Force Sensitive or not (though I'm leaning towards "at least a little" since it explains why Palpatine decides to keep him rather than just frying this random stowaway child and shoving him out an airlock). Emperor's Hand is still an important position but one he only manages to Carnor Jax into an actual Empire through good timing.

This version of the Empire is a product of the 21st century versus the 1970s so there's one actual big difference and that's the fact the Holonet still exists because of the existence of the RL internet. As such, the Empire never dismantled it in NuCanon and information travels A LOT faster. As a result, the Rebellion is going to rise faster and word of the Emperor's atrocities spread quicker.

There's also the fact it seems the Rebel Alliance has been forming far earlier as in the canon EU, the Corellian Treaty doesn't begin until almost right before ANH with Starkiller and company (unpopular as that may be) while they're clearly in existence almost a decade earlier.

 

Very good point on the Holonet. Though I imagine some Legends characters would have to be excluded from nu-canon and vice-versa. Those that don't fit, such as if all of Sheev's Emperor's Hands are listed in Nu-Canon, can't really count in Mara Jade. Though I suppose in Nu-Canon, we could count Mara Jade as some Hand KIA and Kyle Katarn as just some regular mercenary who never ended up working for the Rebellion, or maybe never even left the Empire's service. Speaking of Sheev himself, could he be counted as 'Sheev Palpatine' in both canons? Didn't Pablo say he was gonna be called Sheev even if EU/Legends wasn't axed?

As for which GCW has more casualties, I think its.. hard to say. Nu-Canon Empire seems to commit a lot more atrocities so there might be more deaths in a lesser span of time. However, Gallius Rax offs a lot of Imperial Warlords that could've spent manpower killing off each other. The Rebellion, on the other hand, seems to have grown larger and is engaging in actual open warfare. Its also kind of interesting to note that in Legends, the Rebellion is formed by upper class politicians disgruntled by Sheev's policies, while in Nu-Canon the Rebellion is a grassroots movement that just gets a lot of support from said upper-class politicians, some of which end up in leadership positions like Mothma.

 

Havoc123 Well in ledgends Palpatine's name is implied to be the same as his fathers, Cosinga. Leading him to reject the name and only going by Palpatine. I honestly think calling him Sheev was the stiupidest decisions Disney made with their new canon.

As for Hidalgo I recognized that he often inserst his own wishes and ignores established facts. For example he once said midi clotians were completly meaningless, despite several novels pointing to the opposite.

 

Well, it's a big galaxy and there's all sorts of possibilities for how things may have turned out differently. Again, this is just headcanon, but in this reality you don't even need to say the Yuuzhan Vong didn't exist.

Maybe they just never made it across the Endless Void before their ships failed. After all, they were supposed to appear in Clone Wars.

But there's a Shroedinger's Cat sort of thing going on there.

 

Not sure if Kyp qualifies as a Rebel or even a Rebel partisan - a big point made in Champions of the Force was that his actions were unsanctioned by anybody.

Other genocidal atrocities tacitly sanctioned by the Empire - Pitta's depopulations of various Outer Rim Worlds:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Danetta_Pitta

 

Oops, confused him an Il-Raz for the Agent of Doom bad guys.

 

I always wondered why Palpatine going only by his last name would be rejecting his father, who has the same last name, but this is an explanation that makes sense. especially considering that the Emperor in Lucas's 74 rough draft was named Cos Da****.


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Okay now let's get back on topic-I did NOT want this thread to become a EU vs Canon discussion/comparison

 

Maybe ~500 trillion without any real confirmation, with those 500 trillion being the only listed ones and there being numerous unlisted deaths?