Lit Celestials and ancient humans.

Having perused both the recent humanocentrism thread, and the Cult Encounters thread a curious association I have noticed.

The celestials in pre republic history seem tied to human and core history. They were responsible for transplanting the humans of Corellia and perhaps other worlds, they seemed to exercise a sort of territorial dominion over human world's-the Sharu started venturing into what appeared to be celestial territory and encountered humans at least from a distance but were so terrified of the celestials they retreated into primitivism.

This is strange-that an advanced species would encounter a less advanced one and run away-did the ancient humans have some sort of benefactor?

We know after the celestials were defeated or perhaps they departed the Rakata enlsaved humans and other core species.

So my question is and the purpose of this thread is what was the relationship between ancient humans in Star Wars and the celestials that seemed to each over them and even transplant them to different worlds?

What might the enigmatic celestials have seen in humans, and duros by extension?

Thoughts? Ideas? Because they seemed to exercise some sort of protection or at least observation over human civilization in the GFFA in the pre republic era.

 

Maybe they thought humans were the chosen people.

 

They seemed to think humans were special and worth protecting if nothing else.

 

The history of humans in the Star Wars galaxy has always interested me.

It is worth injecting the "Abandoned Universe" stories into this discussion that were cancelled by Lucasfilm -- Alien Exodus and Human Exodus. Lucasfilm commissioned author Robert Sawyer to write these novels on deep history in SW. There would have been an attempt to show humans travelling into the SW galaxy. They would have left Earth in the 25th century in a state similar to THX-1138.

http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2013/12/abandoned-universe-what-could-have-been/

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Spoiler: Human Exodus

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No matter how weird you think this is going to be, it’s going to be weirder.​

Among all the Expanded Universe’s unrealized projects of which we are aware, Alien Exodus is perhaps the most unusual. In 1994, Robert J. Sawyer, author of the novel Flashforward which was adapted into an ABC television series in 2009, was requested by his publisher to write a trilogy of novels detailing the distant past of the Star Wars galaxy. These books would have featured two major plots woven together: the first, Alien Exodus, would have dealt with the liberation of slaves from the domination of the Varlian Empire, a vast interstellar hegemony ruled by a race of massive insectoid aliens.​

The second storyline, titled Human Exodus, would have served as a distant prequel to Alien Exodus, set on an early 25th century Earth closely resembling the world that appeared in one of George Lucas’ most prominent early works, THX 1138. The protagonists of Human Exodus – Dale Hender, Paxton Solo, and Antonia Corelli (along with five thousand others) – would have fled the tyrannical government of Earth aboard an improvised colony ship destined for Alpha Centauri, which would then have been transported back a long time ago to a galaxy far, far away when it encountered a wormhole beyond the borders of our solar system.​

Once there, the humans would have encountered many alien species familiar to our eyes, including Rodians, Bith, and Gamorreans. The first world they discovered would have eventually been named Corellia, in honor of Antonia Corelli after she died at the hands of Rodian slavers. Dale Hender would have been the ancestor of the protagonist of Alien Exodus, Cosmo Hender, who would have gone on to be posthumously remembered as “the Skywalker” by the slaves that he freed.​

Sawyer withdrew from the Alien Exodus project when it was determined that the trilogy would be unable to use the alien races that appeared in the Original Trilogy, resulting in the reassignment of the novels to author Deborah Chester. She then rewrote the story to feature entirely new species of aliens, and unlike most entries featured in this article, her stories did see publication. The Golden One (1997), The Crimson Claw (1998), and The Crystal Eye (1999) were published as the Alien Chronicles series under the Lucasfilm brand, but without any direct association to the Star Wars universe. Sawyer later made his 10,000-word outline and 12,000 words of sample chapters freely available on the internet as fan fiction.​

 

I'm familiar with that novel-though I was asking more about the relationship between ancient humans and the celestials in legends canon.

 

I mentioned those 2 cancelled novels because they would have been part of Legends canon. I wonder if 100% of the human origin story came from Robert Sawyer or if some came from Lucasfilm and George.

 

I wonder if it's possible that Abeloth created humans as a way of creating chaos in the galaxy.

 

Abeloth isn't actually an Eldritch Abomination or a god. Just a human upjumped into becoming the friend of the Celestial Trio.

And it drove her mad.

 

That's always been my headcanon for Star Wars humanity give or take a few Rakata...

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cradle_of_the_Galaxy

In-Universe, 22 BBY, there was an exhibit called "Cradle of the Galaxy." It was part of the Rhire Concourse of Humanity and History. By 22 BBY, they may have forgotten human pre-history before the era of Xim the Despot.

The Rhire Concourse of Humanity and History was a museum on Rhinnal in the city of Rhire. On 13:9:1 22 BBY, it hosted the "Cradle of the Galaxy" exhibit. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rhire_Concourse_of_Humanity_and_History

Cradle of the Galaxy was the name of an exhibit about the era of Xim the Despot, before the formation of the Galactic Republic.

In 22 BBY, the exhibit was announced by the Allied Tion Historical Society's (ATHS) Director Alreeda Tion-Hymethat it would make a trip to the Core Worlds.

 

I was always interested in the Celestials. They seem like really cool beings. But one question that always stuck to me: Are they really immortal?

 

Perhaps the celestials are humanity's progenitors. That would explain their manipulation of human advancement and transplanting human populations-and the fact that the Sharu and Columi were scared out of interacting with humans or intruding on territories in which celestials claimed as their own.

But what is most striking to me is the sheer terror the celestials struck into the Sharu-this was immediately after the Sharu observed humans. Who as far as we can see were far more primitive at this time-perhaps the celestials didn't want any other species interacting with or using "theirs"

 

New canon mentions very ancient powerful (omnipotent) civilization , however it is surprising that those people were humans.

In the canon book "Legends of Luke Skywalker" Luke has once visited distant planet Lew'el where he met humans who are descendants of an ancient civilization. The shaman (Elder Kaila) tells the story to Luke, how her people thousands of generations ago were " the brightest stars in the galaxy". Those people, humans, were the sentient beings that were the first to undrestood the true nature of the Force (Tide). But after a catastrophic war happened, linked with schism on dark and Light side which "destroyed thousands of star systems", and this civilization was all but destroyed.
I repeat its interesting that this people were humans.Luke meets their descendants which are humans.

 

@Sinrebirth-would you say the celestials were benovelent or "good"?

 

Perhaps the Celestials created humanity. Maybe they were human like themselves, but had god-like powers. Sort of like the Force Beings from the Ghosts of Mortis arc in TCW.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think in FotJ it was more or less stated that the Force Beings were the Celestials or at least related to them in some way.

 

That's something that we've never had answered as best as I know. What facts we know about the Celestials seem to be fairly scarce. Whether or not they were immortal was something that went unanswered.

However, if the Celestials and the Force Beings were indeed the same creatures, they were extremely long-lived. I think I remember reading once that the Force Bengs were millions of years old, or at least had been alive for millions of years.

 

True. This theory always interested me. That's what I love about mysteries. You do your best to learn more and figure out the mysteries of the past. It's like a huge puzzle game.

 

Which is why this has always been one of my favorite topics in the old EU. There is just something so compelling about thinking these mysterious, unknown beings like the celestials and the other ancient species such as the Kwa, Gree and Columi.

The one thing I have to wonder about my theorized link between the celestials in the force beings is if the force beings are actually celestials, why did the celestials have to build technology like Centerpoint Station to move star systems? Certainly if the celestials had the same abilities as the force beings, why would they have any need for such sophisticated technology? They could have just moved the planets by thinking it.

 

My main question was more what was the relationship between celestials and ancient GFFA humans? Why did the celestials seem to "watch over" humans?

 

What legends and myths do the homo sapiens in Star Wars have of the celestials? How did the myths change over time?

What do the celestials think of the humans?

What do the humans think of the celestials?

What types of barriers existed between the humans and the celestials? Technological? Time barriers? Dimensional?

What ancient species shared technology with the celestials?

How many known groups made up the celestials?

 

Why did the celestials exert the influence they did-transplanting humans to other worlds, and seem at least for a while to protect them from other alien interference(the Sharu and Columi).

 

That question concerns motivations of the Celestials for transporting humans. A discussion on the Celestials transporting humans in SW deep history needs lots of context on who we think the Celestials are. I don't think the definition of Celestials is locked into a definite physical form or species.

It is like asking who is God. Christian theology uses the holy trinity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit to break down the essence of God. Other cultures have used other ways of personifying God. Many people interpret the Biblical Old Testament to break down God "The Father" into different names and personifications. There is always the main concept that we are mere mortals; God is all-knowing and we will never understand God.

And so, something similar is going in the SW galaxy with the Celestials.

Then there are questions relating to the origins of the humans. The wookiepedia article under "Human" lists some info under the Legends tab. The Legends tab at least commits that the humans in SW are referred to as homo sapiens. The second paragraph below mentions the Celestials and Rakata were involved in the movement of humans.

But what were the intentions of the Celestials? Who are the Celestials? Who are the humans? What circumstances necessitated their interaction? Were the early humans in SW in competition with similar sentient life forms (Taungs, Zhell, Rakata)? Did the Celestials need to watch over the ancient populations of humans and guide their migration to safe planets?

Since the EU was cutoff, we are left with only an ever-expanding set of questions. We can also try to make inferences from the context(s) in which the humans are known to have interacted with the Celestials. The Mortis Arc in Clone Wars, Season 3 seems to be one of those points of interaction.

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Spoiler: Wookiepedia Article "Human" Legends Tab

According to an inscription found by archaeologists Dr. Ualp Xathanand Fem Nu-Ar on Seoul 5 around 4 ABY, Humans originated on the planet Notron,[5] an archaic name for Coruscant.[54] The ancient Zhell nations, who drove the Near-Human Taung from Coruscant, may have been the progenitors of later Humans.[4] Coruscant's ground had been several kilometers below its inhabitants' feet for millennia, with the lowest depths of its planet-wide city dating back to 100,000 BBY. Thus, it was impossible to carry out the historical study and archaeological research on the planet's prehistory necessary to prove or to disprove that theory. In addition, Coruscant's natural climate was said to be too cold to support Human life,[55] a claim difficult to be reconciled with the theory that it was the original Human homeworld. Tarnese Bleyd believed that the ancestors of Humans favored trees and high ground based upon his observations of human hunting behavior. [56]

It is possible that some ancient civilization, such as the Celestials or even the Rakata, transported early Humans from their original home planet to others. It was, in fact, alleged that they had once been a slave race of the Infinite Empire[4]; however, any knowledge of Human enslavement was absent from Rakatan records as of 3956 BBY. Some of the far-flung 'colonies' eventually diverged genetically from the Human baseline, giving rise to various Near-Human races and species.

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• For me, humans in SW being listed as homo sapiens is probably the biggest clue. I look at George Lucas, from the very beginning, using motifs like "In a Galaxy Far, Far Away" implying many things which he could not show in the films. My interpretation is that modern human beings from Earth migrated into the SW galaxy.

• Once in the SW galaxy, the human descendents were guided by higher spiritual beings like the Celestials, Gree, Whills into epic, heroic roles. That is the basis for the "Skywalker" saga. Luke and Leia are ultimately the heroes. However, Anakin is the chosen one. Anakin's fall to the darkside had implications for the entire galaxy. Therefore, Luke and Leia are forced into the role of heroes to "recover" for Anakin's fall to the darkside.

• "They were in the wrong place and the wrong time. Naturally they became heroes." The preceding generation always sets the stage for its descendents. Anakin's fall was too big. However, Luke and Leia represent the hope to restore the galaxy. They too are chosen ones, as descendents of Anakin.

• When the hero's journey is complete, we receive a transmission of the saga back on Earth in the 1970s through the droids.

• The Mortis Arc in Season 3 of the Clone Wars probably hints at quite a bit. There is also the video commentary from Dave Filoni on his interactions with George Lucas for this arc. From the beginning, George has included there are non-mortal players who watch over this galaxy (Whills, Droids, Celestials, etc.).

• And notice how the three Celestials (Father, Son, Daughter) basically put on a sort of "psycho-drama cruel play-performance" that slowly drew in Anakin, Kenobi, and Ashoka. This entire arc shows the "force-wielders" influencing Anakin and Askoka. However, the entire arc took place in a terra-formed pyramid ship that threw Anakin and crew into a parallel dimension. And also, it is important that Anakin and Kenobi were investigating a distress signal from 2,000 years prior coming from region of space.

 

Given who Cult Encounters implies ancient Coruscant's original deity was, I'm... not so sure it's the Celestials who were the ones that took an interest in primal humanity...

 

I like the idea that Abeloth created humanity because she knew that an intelligent and free-willed species would never obey the Celestials.