So I've thought this might be a true interpretation but never seen it posted anywhere so thought I'd run it by here to see what you all think. The chosen one is meant to bring balance to the force which I believe yoda says might have been misinterpreted by the jedi. As obi wan is upset with anakin at the end of revenge of the sith for "not bringing balance to the force" when in fact I believe he did Most people seem to interpret balance it seems as being at peace, good etc. But balance in general applies to two opposing sides being equal in weight. For this reason I assume the two opposing sides of the force being the dark side and the light side or specifically the sith vs the jedi being ultimate representations of each. Now setting this as the scale, in the phantom menace, there are two sith, the rule of two, and many many jedi. This would mean that the force is currently not in balance because the jedi(light side) vastly outnumber the sith. By anakin becoming a sith in revenge of the sith, he sets off the killing of all the jedi and padawans, with the exception of yoda and obi wan. This results in two sith and two jedi being left, thus balance in the force. Thus fulfilling the prophecy that he as the chosen one would bring balance. Now some could argue that there are still force users by by referencing canon or legacy references like ahsoka tano or darth maul etc, but my argument stems from the fact that they are no longer sith or jedi but simply force users or unaligned. (Darth maul is no longer an apprentice as he is replaced by anakin) This can further be shown in the original trilogy as when luke begins his training obi wan almost immediately dies, leaving still two on each side , emperor and darth vader, and yoda and Luke. Later when yoda dies, there is an imbalance in the force again which anakin solves again. By attempting to kill the emperor, he in fact kills himself while we later learn that the emperor is still alive leaving just luke and sidious as the only remaining true sith and jedi, still in balance. What do you all think?
I agree. But I don't think Anakin's attack to the Jedi temple was the thing that brought balance to the Force, that was mostly the Clone army, Anakin couldn't do it alone. He brought balance by betraying Windu in Episode III, by choosing the dark side. Palpatine couldn't survive without Anakin's help after losing the duel against Windu. It's the same thing in Episode VI, this time Anakin betrayed Palpatine, and he choose the light side. He saved Luke, who was the only Jedi who could restore the light side.
To me, balance to the Force means that the dark side is kept in check. When Sith are given an inch, they will take a mile. The light side does not seek power and control for their own sake while the dark side does. I used to think along the lines of your interpretation, but I honestly now think that the purpose is for the Sith to be defeated. The Sith live to dominate and the Jedi are supposed to prevent this.
''The light side does not seek power and control for their own sake while the dark side does.'' Well, I think that's a point of view. Jedi also controls the power, or wants to control the power, and they tell you what to do. It's their choice to do what they want to do with that power. But still, they want to control that power as well. They are not interested in other things such as individuality but they are still interested for their own community, but still that is also craving for power, not for their individuality, but for their community, and for their ideals, when you try to oppose the other people who have the power, and tell them what they should do and what they should not do, that's basically controlling them in a different way, and having a power in a different way. That could be the reason why the Jedi shouldn't be political as we've seen in the prequel trilogy, when they involved in political affairs, one way or another, they are controlling the power, or they are wanting to control the power. In a way, that's no different than what the Sith wants, to control the power. As Maul said; ''Justice is merely the construct of the current power base.'' The Jedi also want to control the power, but instead of choosing the people or they are choosing some people and they think they should control the power, and control the ''the justice''. For example, when a Jedi wrongly accused as a traitor, and if they are not sure about that, they choose to go alongside with the Senate, because they don't want to lose their power over the Senate. So when they get political, and when they involved in political affairs as ''ambassadors'', one way or another they are getting stronger by using the light side, and that's also unbalancing the Force. You cannot control the natural life, or the Force, even for the sake of the light side. If you do that, the light side needs to be weakened as well.
It's a thing that can be interpreted several ways, which is one thing I like about the prophecy. But my view is also pretty simple: destroy the Sith, namely Palpatine. Which Anakin did (and only Anakin).
My interpretation (or head canon or whatever): Anakin Skywalker indeed fulfilled the prophecy and ended the sith. He was the chosen one. But since Sheev Palpatine acted “against nature“ and survived at least by spirit, the true essence of Anakin's character - compassion and understanding - “reincarnated“ as a dyad between Kylo Ren and Rey Palpatine like an invisable loop of humanity fighting the deeplaying anger and confusion. And with Rey Palpatine as a vessel for the power of all jedi defeating her evil grandfather Darth Sidious and Ben Solo giving his life for her, together they bring balance to the force, merging to one life creating Rey Skywalker. So basically the whole family of the Skywalkers (and Solos) brought finally peace to the galaxy winning this long chess game against the purest evil. What remains and what did Anakin see from the netherworld? He saw that he was right: compassion and humanity wins!
Interesting idea, but no, Anakin does not bring balance to the Force in ROTS. He further unbalances it by helping Sidious. The Sith are oppressors. Their evil rule extends to all corners of the galaxy. The dark side permeates everything. Good, compassionate people, meanwhile (like the Jedi and those who believe in their ideals), are forced to stay in the shadows and abide by the Empire's law. No one is free to live on their own terms, except the Sith, who are willing to destroy worlds in order to maintain control. They literally do not care about anyone/anything else. They're a disease and the galaxy is a very sick place. If you think that's balance, I don't know what to tell you. Except that you're wrong.
I agree with what Anakin, Luke and Palpatine have all actually said-that Anakin did kill the emperor and bring balance to the Force, but then many years later, darkness re-emerged. Peace is never everlasting. Darkness can always return, whether in the same form or another. That is what happened here. So overall I think the prophecy referred to the Skywalker line as a whole, rather than Anakin alone. I haven't read it (yet) but I've heard the book Master and Apprentice alludes to this as well.
I only count the 1-6 Lucas saga as canon, and for this I'm going with what George Lucas and those movies actually say: Anakin was the Chosen One, he destroyed the Sith and brought balance. No high-budget fanfic that tries to retcon the prophecy is going to change my mind about that, whether it's the ST or the EU.
No doubt the Sith wants the power for themselves and they think themselves, but why would they not care about anyone/anything else? They do care about others which is why they want to control them and control the galaxy, they don't want to destroy everything and destroy the galaxy. They want to rule them, and still, they are not slavers. Although they are not doing anything to stop the slavery (neither the Jedi did), they still don't want to turn everyone into slaves, we've never seen them turning others into slaves. They want to control the galaxy and the other worlds, as many other monarch leaders in the history wanted. For example, some senators in the senate actually wanted Palpatine as their leader and their emperor. Some Mandalorians wanted Maul as their leader. Some Imperials in the Empire were happy with Vader's rule, and he was actually an inspiring military leader for the Storm troopers and some people. Dooku as well was an inspiring leader for the some separatist leaders. If they don't care about anyone/anything else, they couldn't rule them.
I recently made a video on this topic sort of. I believe Balance of the Force means the confrontation of the universal shadow archetype, which would likely have been explored in George Lucas 'Whills' Trilogy. I don't believe Balance means equal parts light and dark manifest in the world and George Lucas has made clear that the light is balance. There would be no real world moral or ethic in treating good and evil as factors in an equation to be equally manifest in the material world. As long as good is a choice, evil is a possibility. The flaw of the Jedi was to view the Dark Side as an external force to be vanquished. Their internal shadow was left unchecked. The shadow, when left unrecognized, manifests in the world in the form of Darth Vader. I believe Balance does not mean equal parts light and dark manifest in the world, nor does it mean the eradication of the dark, but the proper orientation of light and dark, where the former is actualized in the world and the dark remains unrealized potential. The only way to maintain balance is to realize that the dark resides within. Any other path leads to imbalance. Anakin never lost his designated role as the Chosen One and ultimately fulfilled the prophecy of bringing Balance to the Force at the end of Return of the Jedi.
@Jedi Master Chuck Cool video, lot of work, deep thoughts! Although I think you could have just added an optional interpretation including VII-IX at the end. Just to say “Lucas probably would have done differently“ doesn't help these days. ^^
Thanks! and good suggestion! I'm still working on it, but I have a second part to the discussion which does delve into The Force Awakens, Last Jedi, and Rise of Skywalker - and compares them to where I believe Lucas was likely going with the sequel trilogy. I also want to extrapolate beyond Rise of Skywalker to see where the story can go from here.
@Erkan12: Sidious tricks the citizens into trusting him and lulls them into a false sense of security. Then, he slowly takes away their freedoms, one by one, until finally, they are slaves to the Empire in all but name. That's not caring about others. That's being a clever tyrant.
I think the Chosen One prophecy and prophecy in the PT in general is pretty ambiguous and open to interpretation, which I rather like. We don't get to hear the exact Chosen One prophecy directly but there do seem to be some salient markers of the Chosen One of prophecy: 1) conceived by the Force rather than through the standard biological fashion; 2) perhaps as a consequence of the previously listed trait, the Chosen One is naturally strong in the Force and possessing a very high midichlorian count; 3) the Chosen One is said to be the one who will bring balance to the Force, and 4) the Chosen One is said to be the one who will destroy the Sith. That is the major established Jedi belief and mythology around the Chosen One of prophecy. So, let's look at the prophecy in the specific context of Anakin. Shmi answers that Anakin had no father when Qui-Gon asks who was his father, so he seems to fill criteria one. As to criteria two, Anakin has a very high midichlorian as shown by Obi-Wan's awed remark upon performing the blood test on his sample that Anakin's midichlorian count exceeded that of Master Yoda's. Trait number three is complicated, so I will leave that point for now and circle around to discussing it later in more detail. For now, it suffices to say I haven't forgotten it, but want to do it a bit more justice later on in my post. As to attribute four, Anakin does end up destroying the Sith, but not until the end of ROTJ, which means that Anakin can only be said to have fulfilled the Chosen One prophecy at the end of ROTJ because prior to that he hasn't destroyed the Sith but joined them. It is not until the end of ROTJ that Anakin will achieve the destiny laid out for him in the Chosen One prophecy. With Master Yoda's comment, I think it is helpful to look at under what specific circumstances he made that observation. So, what were those circumstances? Mace Windu: It's very dangerous putting them together. I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him. Obi-Wan Kenobi: With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force? Mace Windu: So the prophecy says. Master Yoda: A prophecy that misread could have been. This conversation shows how Mace Windu mistrusts and doubts Anakin. Obi-Wan is responding by defending his friend, showing both his faith in his friend Anakin and in the Chosen One prophecy, illustrating how he has grown from someone who doubted Anakin and didn't believe in the Chosen One prophecy in much of TPM to somebody who will try to defend Anakin from other Council members and will believe in Anakin when other Jedi don't. At the end of TPM, Obi-Wan might have only believed in Anakin at all because he believed in Qui-Gon, but by the time ROTS rolls around, his faith is rooted in Anakin. He believes Anakin will be the one who will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. Not just because Qui-Gon believes that but because of everything he knows of Anakin and everything he has seen from Anakin. We could say among the Jedi, Obi-Wan knows Anakin the best. He is Anakin's closest friend among the Jedi and his mentor of many years. So perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to discount Obi-Wan's words or his faith in Anakin. His instincts may be right here as he is someone who moved from the skeptical position in TPM to the true believer position in ROTS. Anakin certainly does end up destroying the Sith at the end of ROTJ despite his actions in ROTS. Anakin may not have destroyed the Sith in the way Obi-Wan would've predicted (given Anakin's detour of slaughtering most of the Jedi) but still Anakin has destroyed the Sith as Obi-Wan believed that he would. Mace responds rather dubiously that is what the prophecy says, and Master Yoda replies the prophecy could have been misread. What would it mean for the prophecy to have been misread? Well, honestly, it could mean any number of things. It could mean that the Chosen One prophecy in its current form is a translation from another language (perhaps an older language no longer in use akin to Latin in our own world) and there can always be question marks about meaning with translations. Perhaps it means that the Chosen One prophecy is part of an old document that has been in part damaged or lost, making it impossible to get a full and accurate reading of the prophecy itself. Maybe he just means that the Jedi are misinterpreting the prophecy, assuming that it pertains to Anakin when it could be meant to refer to another Jedi who will appear a thousand years later for all the Jedi currently living know. Or maybe he means that the prophecy won't be fulfilled in the straightforward way the Jedi think. It might be fulfilled in a more complicated, unforeseeable way. If he means the latter, then perhaps he and Obi-Wan are both right, each in their own ways (and even Mace is right in the sense that Anakin is vulnerable to being manipulated by Palpatine to the downfall of both himself and the Jedi Order as a whole). So, to me the two most important points to pull from that conversation are: 1) Obi-Wan isn't wrong to have faith in Anakin, to believe in Anakin, and to think that Anakin is the Chosen One of prophecy who will bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith; and 2) Yoda is right to raise questions about the prophecy not being straightforward and easy to interpret because it can be fulfilled in ways the Jedi cannot anticipate. All this then in my long-winded way of saying that I think Anakin was the Chosen One and that he fulfilled the prophecy at the end of ROTJ by destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force. As to Obi-Wan's shouting at Anakin at the end of ROTS that Anakin was meant to be the Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness, and destroy the Sith, not join them, I think Obi-Wan is right in describing what a Chosen One of prophecy is supposed to do: 1) destroy the Sith and 2) bring balance to the Force. He is also right that Anakin is supposed to be the Chosen One. So, where is he wrong? I'd argue that he is wrong in assuming that Anakin's journey to achieving the prophecy of the Chosen One is done. His pain at Anakin's betrayal and his sense of despair at seeing all the Jedi slaughtered is one hundred percent understandable, but in this case the pain and despair are clouding his perception of the Force, because the Force isn't done with Anakin yet, and Anakin's journey as Chosen One isn't done yet. This isn't the end of the saga, in other words, even if in Obi-Wan's despair, it might feel like it is. Anakin would've left the Force in darkness if the story of the Chosen One had ended in ROTS, but it doesn't. It ends in ROTJ when Anakin rejoins the light and selflessly sacrifices himself to save his son. Anakin's story might have finished with him joining the Sith instead of destroying them if ROTS was the last word on the matter, but it isn't. ROTJ is, and ROTJ shows us an Anakin who destroys the Sith by throwing Palpatine into the abyss of the Death Star and with his own death. Anakin does not die a Sith but a Jedi who serves as an ultimate rejection of the darkness embodied by the Sith. Anakin has been to the Dark Side, rejected it, and been restored to the Light. It is in the Light and serving the Light that Anakin's journey as Chosen One concludes and with this conclusion that Anakin is able to fulfill the prophecy of destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force. I have left it to this point to theorize on what I think it means to bring balance to the Force. Personally, I find that to be a bit of a thorny question open to interpretation, although I think any theory should have Anakin bringing balance to the Force at the end of ROTJ when his journey is complete rather than at the end of ROTS when his journey is not yet done. That being said, my personal interpretation is that a good visualization of what it means for the Force to be in balance is the image of the Prime Jedi in TLJ. The Prime Jedi in TLJ resembles a yin-yang symbol. Yin-yang symbols are meant to embody the idea of balance between opposites(light and dark, male and female, active and passive, hot and cold, etc.) and to demonstrate how everything contains its opposite. The light and the dark in the yin-yang symbol does not typically relate to the moral constructs of good and evil so much as it refers to the balance between various elements in nature. That's the spirit that I think sort of imbues Rey's description of the life and the death and the rebirth of life from death when Luke asks her what she feels. It also permeates her words when she says she feels warmth and cold on the island as well as peace and violence on the island. It should be noted that the life, the death, the rebirth from death, the warmth, the cold, the peace, and the violence she feels on the island are all rooted in nature. As is the energy, the Force, that she feels animating it all. I think we should understand the Jedi as being in tune with the will of the Force (which is the will of this energy that Rey describes). Jedi are peacekeepers but also paradoxically warriors capable of wielding lightsabers with crystals that aren't bleeding as the red ones of the Sith are. The crystals are being used according to their natures, and so do not bleed. The Jedi value life and seek to preserve it but also accept death. The Jedi may die (as when Anakin destroys the Temple and much of the Order), but they are always reborn through characters like Luke. So, balance in this way is not a matter of numbers (of x amount of Jedi to y amount of Sith as in a ratio) but about a deference to the nature and will of the Force. That is what the Jedi are meant to embody and represent. I would conclude with a quote from the opening of Alan Dean Foster's novelization of TFA and the observation that Lucas from what I've heard did plan on exploring the Whills in greater depth in the ST so the Whills and their philosophy may be worth thinking about in this regard: "First comes the day then comes the night. After the darkness, shines through the light. The difference, they say, is only made right by the resolving of gray through refined Jedi sight." --Journal of the Whills, 7:477. This passage focuses on the interplay and the balancing of light and dark. It also states that the resolution and the making right--the achievement of balance, in other words--is only attained through refined Jedi sight. This to me means that the Jedi and the refinement of their philosophy is essential to understanding what it means to bring balance to the Force. Bringing balance to the Force, then, is ultimately a Jedi thing--a refinement of Jedi philosophy to be more attuned to the will of the Force--than it is a matter of balancing some cosmic equation of Jedi and Sith numbers. At least that is my most developed current interpretation. Other interpretations can certainly exist since I think the concept of what it means to bring balance to the Force was always meant to be a bit open to individual audience interpretation in my opinion. I can only share my thoughts and hope they might be of some interest to others.
There was a huge corruption in the galactic senate, and the Jedi were helpless to stop it. The Jedi were just going along with whatever the corrupt senate says. The Jedi couldn't stop the Confederacy war without the help of the Clone army (which the Sith provided it to them), and they couldn't stop the corruption in the senate. They were doomed to fail. Also, some people in the galaxy believed that the empire wasn't bad. The Client: ''The Empire improves every system it touches. Judge by any metric: safety, prosperity, trade opportunity, peace. Compare Imperial rule to what is happening right now. Is the world more peaceful since the revolution? I see nothing but death and chaos.'' - The Mandalorian Chapter 9 Not saying the guy is right, or wrong. I am just saying that not everyone disliked the empire.
You could say that about any tyrannical regime IRL, but that doesn't mean they're not disturbing the natural balance. The Sith don't operate in accordance with the will of the Force. They try to bend it to their will, to satisfy their selfish desires. Ergo, their government doesn't govern the people; it only governs themselves in the long run. Those who believe in the Empire and willingly serve it are too blinded by their own greed to see that sooner or later, they too will fall victim to the cruelty of their great leaders. A government that rules by fear and helps the strong at the expense of the weak does not bring balance. That's the simple truth of it. What the Republic and their Jedi did is irrelevant, since what we're discussing is whether Anakin brought balance in ROTS or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's undeniable that he did not.
I believe that balance is about the equilibrium between positive and negative forces in nature. And I feel that "balance in the Force" is about accepting the ambiguity of the Force or "nature", not about the number of Jedi or Sith in the universe. And I believe that both the Jedi and the Sith had failed to realize this by interpreting the Force with extreme views and enforcing the latter with extreme actions.
@Christopher Philips, I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said to @Jedi Master Chuck here: https://boards.theforce.net/threads/balance-of-the-force-explained.50054811/#post-56984264 By your assessment of the meaning of the unifying force, it seems like the Jedi are always resigned to defeat the darkness of their own creation. As seen from the early Jedi and the persecution of the Legions of Lettow. However, one would think that eventually, there would be an ultimate order. It seems that by clashing with the dark side repeatedly, the Jedi Order "supposedly" becomes stronger, this is more Hegelian dialectics than the "Balance of the force." Hegelian dialectics is a philosophical argument that proposes the idea that once a "thesis" comes into conflict with it's opposite, an "antithesis," a new argument that is stronger than both halves is born, "Synthesis." However, in the case of the Jedi this is false as the Jedi continuously learn nothing each time they clash with the Darkness. In fact, with each Jedi purge, the order gets weaker as knowledge becomes destroyed throughout these conflicts. It is ironic however that it was the persecution of this darkness that led to the very sith that exists. As dark side users were at first the Legions of Lettow, a peaceful group that parted from the order without incident under the leadership of Xendor. "Sometime in the 24,500s BBY the Jedi Order had grown weary of the dissidents' continued existence and decided to put an end to the Great Schism which had torn at the Order's fabric for too long. Forming a massive army, the High Council forced the Legionnaires into open combat. Reluctant to take up the title of general, Xendor hoped to avoid massive bloodshed by bringing the war directly to Ossus." - https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Legions_of_Lettow "But that was not the tragedy of the First Great Schism. The tragedy was that the Jedi learned nothing." - Book of the sith, Page 13. This ignorance was once again displayed after the final battle of Ruusan against the Brotherhood of Darkness. "The Sith have been enemies of the Jedi for thousands of years, yet outsiders who viewed them as an inevitable- and even necessary- counterbalance to the light side were proven wrong after the Battle of Ruusan when the Sith order crumbled." - The Jedi Path , Page 148. I am the believer in the notion that the author is dead, so no quotes from George Lucas nor Dave Filoni will change what I have interpreted from the events that have taken place in the books, comics, games, and movies. Evidence suggests that the chosen one prophecy is an overrated piece of Jedi fiction such as the Sith'ari prophecy and that the force, all-powerful and all-knowing it may be, is not all good. This cannot be refuted; only certain individuals that the force has favored will earn eternal life. Something which is not unique to Jedi as sith lords such as Freddon Nadd, Marka Ragnos, and Darth Bane have achieved this ethereal achievement. It is only through their arrogance that the Jedi think this power is theirs alone. So what does bringing balance to the force mean? Well, it means to wipe out both the Jedi and the Sith, as the Jedi will rebuild, grow powerful, grow arrogant and then allow the "outsiders" to rise and bring down the order again. Let's face it the force wants both the Jedi and sith to die as both orders defy its will.
