Cloaking shield effect

I want to use the cloaking shield for my fanfilm, which was used in Zahn's trilogy.

Unfortunately I don't know how it looks from the outside. For example a cloaked Star Destroyer, what do you see?

1. A nearly transparent or even completely invisible (see-through) Star Destroyer?
2. A region of total blackness?



Stephan

 

From what I've heard, don't quote me on this, a cloak generator wraps photons around the object it is shielding using electromagnetics, I THINK!

Maybe have it look like normal space but the stars behind the Star Destroyer are lensed and distorted?

Did that make any sense?

Shoveler

 

I get the picture, yeah!
But what happens if it isn't in space, well not a Star Destroyer of course, but a smaller ship skimming the surface of a planet. A lensed landscape where the ship flies?

Or could it be like in Rebel Assault II with the Phantom Fighter?

 

Yeah, it's completely up to you what you want to do with your story. I guess the main question is; does it make the story more interesting if it is wholly invisible or only partially?

Shoveler

 

I think it should look something like the Predator when he's invisible

 

I'm sorry, I dont't know what you're referring to. What's this 'Predator'?

 

I agree. I've always imagined a cloaked starship would slightly disposition the stars that it past in front of. This makes even more sense for larger ships because (although the speed of light is very great) if the photons were warped and then sent on their usual course, then the light would take an extra fraction of a second to make that joureny and would appear slightly behind where they should.

I think I've heard the same thing about how the cloaking effect is supposedly achieved. However, sci-fi authors are pretty stupid in general and don't have any good knowledge of real physics. But that's ok because 99% of people seeing what they write don't either. But photons being warped by an electromagnetic field is impossible since photons carry no charge and therefore cannot be affected by magnetism.

A better explantion would be a localized distortion in space time that created a "bubble" around the ship. Light rays coming in contact with the bubble's surface would be deflected along it, and while this would render the ship invisible, the stars behind the ship would wink out and appear in random places. Also the ship would be very strange to walk around since the space time would be so streched inside it. Plus doing either would require amounts of energy greater than a star puts out.

So perhaps the best way to have a "cloaked" ship would be to have the surface material of the ship coated with a material that when an electrical current runs through it, it becomes black. With this, you would not be able to see stars through it, but aside from its silouhette, it would be invisible. This effect is energy efficient since the electric current could pass over the ship and except for the energy lost due to resistance in the substance, the energy could be then routed back into standard ship power. Another interesting aspect you could add to this is have it hide near the glare of nearby planets where the background stars are washed out by the light of the nearby planet. This too is forgotten by sci-fi movie makers. Just watch any scene with a planet viewed from orbit and you'll see all the stars in the background. And then take a look at a NASA picture of the Earth. This effect is like why we can't see stars in the day but like I said before, sci-fi creators aren't bound by the laws of reality. However, you could sound pretty smart if you pointed that out... One thing that would make this ship easy to detect though, is that the resistance in the surface would cause it to heat up somewhat, and therefore, be more easily detectable in the infrared. However in ANH they prefer to "pick up visual scanning" instead of using all those nice instruments, so I think you could get away with it.

If you wanted to use that effect, I think it would look pretty cool as the energy took time to move across the ship it would go black from one end to the other, or if there were multiple generators, then in an interesting pattern. Another idea for multiple generators would be to have one of them malfunctioning and a little piece of star destroyer visible in the blackness.

Sorry I rant so much about Physics. After all I'm a Physics major. But I hope it helps.

 

What about if the hull of the ship was coated with a highly reflective material? It reflects starlight bouncing off of it?

Hehe sorry Voija, as you have obviously noticed I am not a physics person

Shoveler

 

Reflective would work in some cases. It would look like Amidala's starship. However, you'll notice when it's near a planet or anything else to bright, it doesn't reflect the stars, but also reflects the planet or a star that it's in orbit of. The only place something like that would be of any use would be in interstellar space (no stars nearby) and since there's nothing in interstellar space, there's no one there to be mean at.

Therefore, if you wanted to do that you'd probably want to make the ship an interdicor instead of a stardestroyer since it could pull ships out of hyperspace in intellar space.

 

With respect to Amidala's ship, the reflections were largely a cheat -- with real reflections, the ship was largely invisible, so to make sure you could see it against the stars, they played with the position and size of the reflections.

 

I agree but depending on how you viewed the ship, there could still be some sort of reflection that could give the ship away.

 

You could just use the alpha channel and use that as a distortion on the starfield background. You might have to have a lot of stars to fully see the effect but if it passed in front of a planet it'd look really awesome.

 

Personally, FanFilms and films in general to me aren't supposed to be Physics lessons. Whatever looks good is what you go with. A cloaked ship could be invisible, completely black, reflective, distorting... whatever you want to do, and whatever will look best in your film.

No offence to you physics guys out there, but this is science fiction.



Indy

 

I agree. It is science fiction and I'd personally take whatever would look to be the coolest effect. Personally, I feel that just the way a cloaking device sounds it should be completely invisible but it's a little easier on my eyes and keeping track of the ship if the stars shift slightly out of position to remind the audience where the ship is. But if you want, sure, it can be completely invisible, only taking single shots here and there keeping the location secret even to the audience and building that suspense level a bit more.

But if you're wanting to make a reality based approach see above for my thoughts. However I totally agree this is science fiction.

 

I think you'll find in many cases that the things you see in film aren't completely accurate, but have been cheated to make it more cinematic -- and that ranges anywhere from a reflective ship not actually reflecting as it would, to an actor speaking to another actor but actually looking three feet to her left because it looks better than the complete profile.

The point of film is to WATCH a story unfold. You want to SHOW us something. So while it would likely be most accurate to have the ship entirely invisible, it might be more visually pleasing to have some kind of refraction, or an outline, etc. It depends on what you want to accomplish.

M. Scott

 

If a ship 'wrapped space-time around itself' it would require an incredible amount of energy to do so. And to do so don't you need somekind of gravity well generator? Even if you had this gravity generator wouldn't it just tear the ship emitting it apart?

Shoveler

 

i agree with jade...
it doen't really matter how it works because it is not real.

somebody asked me the other day...."how the blades on the lightsaber clash togeather and stop from going through each other, when it is just a beam of light?" i replyed...
"Good question...now here is the answer.....IT LOOKS COOL"

a lot of star wars is makes no sense but it cool as hell. sorry to burts your bubble. don't get me wrong, if there is a logical explanation for somthign in the star wars worlds it is nice to know about it and to marvel at it's brilliance. but most of it is made cuz it looks cool.

so when you have done a few FX test look at thyem all and c which one looks the best. nothing more and nothing less.

 

Shoveler is right.

To bend space time that much the object in the center of the distortion would be distorted in ways that would tear the ship apart, not to mention, be very painful for those peole on board.

Read my earlier posts Jello, before spouting off about things you don't know about. I don't feel I need to repeat myself to a 15 yr. old.

 

You're out of line, that was a prejudiced comment, and your theory, yes "theory" since it's never been done, isn't totally accurate. So I suggest an apology, that's all.

 

1) If someone is going to explain something using a "theory" then they must be prepared to be disproven with other factors from the same theory.

2) I will apologize for the 15 yr. old comment. However I will point out again, that I already pointed out why bending of space time is not a feasable idea for cloaking and saying that folding space time is how something is done when I've already pointed these things out without explaining how to get around the laws of physics, is unacceptable to me.

3) While space time is a "theory" you do not seem to understand what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is a hypothesis that has been tested and does fit observational data. The space-time model has been applied to many situations and has come out 100% accurate every time. Remember, experiments done in the lab aren't the only ones out there. Astronomical data can also be used and is the best test for something such as space-time since its properties are best displayed on scales that cannot be simulated in the labs.

Therefore, everything I said before (with the exception of what I said in statement 2) stands.

Also, I am presenting my opinions on cloaking from a scientific standpoint and recognize that Star Wars is science-fiction and the director can do whatever he feels necessary to achieve the effect.

 

I was talking about the theory of the "lag" if someone was to somehow wrap photons around a ship. Also, I completely follow what you're saying and I commend you on how accurate you've been (I love physics, too, so don't talk to ME condescendingly about this stuff), but the kid was just asking about an EFFECT, not PHYSICS. Thanks for apologizing, though, and yeah, it was a sorta dumb question....haha

 

Johnny, the answer to the lightsabers not passing through eachother is that they're not made of light. Check out this link for more information.

Also, I'd like to say that looking back at Jello's post, I did misinterpret what it was trying to say. I just got really peeved when someone says something to the effect of "this is how it works". However, the rest of his post (throwing physics to the wind) does make sense.

 

i'd make it like the Bond's new car in "Die Another Day". You can only see a small distortion in the area where it sits.

 

Yeah, they did that effect pretty well, eh?