Amph Come with me if you want to live: The Terminator Thread

In that case the Terminator Wiki is wrong:
At some point after 2020, Legion became sentient and began the equivalent of Judgement Day. On Day 1, Legion engaged in cyber warfare with the entirety of humanity by shutting off its connection to key resources, such as electricity and the Internet. On Day 2, the world governments responded by attempting to use tactically-placed EMP strikes in order to contain Legion, but Legion survived the attempt. On Day 3, Legion launched nuclear weaponry across the globe.
https://terminator.fandom.com/wiki/Legion

 

My take on this, just look at the Current tech industry if PlayStation and every other video game company went out of business does that mean some other company wont crop up and corner the market? I am sure another Company like Cyberdyne Systems cropped up and built similar tech. The new said company had people that built the tech and like Cyberdyne it became Aware! Just because it wasn't on screen doesn't mean it didn't happen plus it could hopefully be expounded upon in sequels. Part of a good story in a movie isn't showing everything making you think about things and have something to talk about at dinner after the movie and that is one of the things I really like about going to the movies and going to dinner afterwards!

Plus look at our own world we are always trying to make AI why wouldn't a Divergent timeline created in T2 not be also trying to create AI Its what Humans do create because Science Is discovery and that's exciting to most people!

 

Science Is discovery and that's exciting to most people!

Yes, as long as the product of the discovery doesn't end up destroying humanity!

 

Went into this with kinda low expectations, but ended up really enjoying it. I gave up long ago trying to figure out/justify the time travel complexities and was able to just roll with the implausibilities. The high point to me here was actually the humor that Arnold delivered, even tho his screen time is limited. I bet I laughed a good 20-30 seconds at the "extremely funny" line!

 

but you don't know its going to destroy humanity when your creating it.

 

You might know it has the potential to do so, in the wrong hands - look at nuclear bombs.

 

that's the problem with creation a lot of times its destructive. but its not all destructive.

 

that's the problem with creation a lot of times its destructive. but its not all destructive.

Yes, which is why it's such a huge danger. What will do if/when stateless terrorists detonate nuclear bombs?

 

Terminator 2 kind of nailed the philosophical inevitability of it all



In other news, Tim Miller says no hard feelings but he's never working with James Cameron again, or Ryan Reynolds for that matter, because he really wants full creative control over the end product.

 

The way you describe it doesn't present any problems at all. Trouble is your analogy doesn't come close to the detail & specifics that are virtually the same in these two separate cases. The greater the shared detail, the greater & more unlikely the co-incidence. So if this were just a case of two instances of AI - no problem. If it were two instances of nasty malevolent AI that want to wipe out humanity - no problem. If it were even two malevolent AI who create military robots to help wipe out humans - still no problem. That's the level of generality that your analogy caters for. However in this case we have two AI who both try to kill off humans with nukes. Both separately create killer humanoid robots, in both cases called "Terminators". Both sides' Terminators have solid endoskeletons modeled on human anatomy right down to bone structure & teeth. Both have models utilizing liquid metal that change shape & again, mimic human form. Both employ time travel. Both use it to travel back to prevent a resistance leader from rising up against it. Both somewhat carelessly let their time travel tech be used by the resistance to try to thwart their plan. In addition to all that, in the first case with Cyberdyne we had the paradoxical element of the T800 chip & arm that drove their R&D & allowed them to create the terminators & even Skynet. Legion, we're told is a completely unrelated AI. This means it was able to ape the methods & technology of Cyberdyne & Skynet to such a huge degree but without the benefit of that future tech to help them along. You'd need to be a Terminator to calculate the odds of this co-incidence. So, if I were to tweak your analogy to make it fit better, it would be that someone traveled back to the early 90's & destroyed Sony & all traces & knowledge of the PlayStation. Then without any connection at all to Sony or its developers, another company created a games console that looked almost exactly like the PS1. And it was called the PlayStation. And it had virtually the same bunch of launch titles. That alone is ridiculous, without even bringing in the time paradox stuff. This whole issue could've been alleviated by the simple choice of having Legion connected to Cyberdyne up until T2. This would perfectly explain the small differences in tech that we see bcs following those events Legion branched off like a different part of an evolutionary tree, which neatly explains those differences. It also explains the stark similarities, ie both shared the same earlier R&D development path prior to T2.

 

So just pretend it's a step-or-two removed offshoot of Cyberdyne man

I don't think enjoying the film/understanding the story ultimately suffers that much from it not being mentioned. Just make it your head canon.

 

It makes it a sillier film but other than that it makes no difference to me. It’s just a conversation topic.

 

But your not thinking fourth dimensionally Avengers Endgame Science that prescribes to real science IE that if you go back in time it isn't going to affect your future because your future is a different tangent timeline a different dimension. Strings theory basically infinite number of dimensions each alternate to the last. its really just quantum physics so its not just these two outcomes its infinite possibilities...

 

The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day are predestination fixed timeline paradox narratives, every movie after that is multiverse and mentions how things have changed. Even in Dark Fate, which Miller kept saying was on the same fixed timeline, they bring in multiverses anyway with Legion and by saying that Carl was taking orders from a future that didn't exist anymore.

 

but the Time travel rules in Endgame weren't invented by Endgame its real science Quantum Physics Strings theory. When Terminator was hatched up in the 80's by Cameron Strings theory wasn't in the public conciseness it wasn't a thing so what I am proposing that I think Cameron is basically saying about the science of Dark Fate just because this kind of time travel interdimensional time travel wasn't discussed in the first two films doesn't mean it cant be a thing in these films. its up to the fans to suspend disbelief and go with it. With this mindset I didn't have a problem with continuity. I mean you can poke holes at every star wars movie and all three original Indiana Jones movie and find continuity errors in all those movies. nothing is perfect its all make believe. I think Dark Fate for the most part was well received by the critics and fans alike so Cameron did something right. Like Solo A Star Wars Story I don't think the box office for Dark Fate had anything to do with quality of the film I don't think most people new how good Solo and Dark Fate were took it for granted and said I will wait till its released to Blu-ray and streaming and On-Demand. it will find life after the theater as did Solo hopefully they make sequels with the same Directors and writing team and they are theatrical! Word Of Mouth doesn't work like it used to.

 

I didn't write the script I am just saying I think its plausible and totally in the film makers rights to make the film he so chooses it really comes down to expectations the same with a film like Star Wars TLJ and I have no expectations I just want to be entertained by a good popcorn flick that's all these are. being a popcorn flick isn't a bad thing.

 

I feel Terminator: Dark Fate really didn't introduce any real original ideas that would spin out/relaunch a new franchise. I do feel it kind of followed the pattern The Force Awakens did by copying the major plot points of the previous films.

I'm curious to know what type of terminators came through the time bubbles that Sarah Connors killed and how she killed them. I know she employed the bait and kill box strategy, but I'd like to know what kind of weapons. We know she didn't kill them via EMP and I doubt she killed them in a vat of hot liquid metal or crushed by some huge machinery. She was hunting these terminators that came through the time bubble with weapons that she could transport by car and other than EMP, there really isn't a mobile weapon strong enough to kill a terminator.

As for Skynet and Legion? The way I look at it, Skynet is a reflection of the 1980's and state of technology; that the only R&D team that would have the means to create A.I. is the US military. Legion is more reflective of modern times where AI could be created in a large government facility or in someone's garage. Legion symbolically means "we are many," but also means that we loose our individuality to become of one mind. So, to me, Legion isn't a product of a singular corporation like Cyberdyne, but numerous software developers and coders.

A couple of months ago I came across this CNET article about a VR simulation for HR administrator to terminating one's employment.

So a company like Talespin could contributed to the creation of Legion, as well as something like Google, Amazon or Apple.

 

How It Should Have Ended goes with the mega-happy ending

 

I finally saw this the other night.

My first thought it is that it seemed more like a "spin off" than a true "sequel." At the end of the day, Legion isn't Skynet, so the idea that everything that happens with Legion so neatly recapitulates the contours of the Terminator/Skynet timeline is laughable. There was definitely intrigue and novelty in the first half, and it's a far better overall watch than T3 or T5, but I still don't consider a true installment of the franchise.

My head-canon for this series has always been hopelessly convoluted. The Terminator is a perfect, standalone movie with an airtight, closed-loop plot. Terminator 2 introduces the idea that the future is changeable. I've always viewed it as sort of an "optional sequel." After that, Terminator 3 was flat-out horrendous, and I've always considered it a B-movie. It's like the Platonic form of a "Bigger, Louder, Dumber" sequel. Not only is it "not about anything" as @The2ndQuest brilliantly put, its underlying logic, whereby the future is kinda sorta malleable but not truly changeable makes no sense. It doesn't fit anywhere into my head-canon. I don't even acknowledge it exists. (The campy role they gave Dr. Silverman is downright inexcusable and shows the filmmakers truly didn't respect the property) Terminator:Salvation, then, I consider an alternate, branching sequel to T1. After T1, either T2 or T4 happened. Terminator 5 was one of my all-time most incomprehensible, worst experiences in a movie theatre, and like Terminator 3, I don't acknowledge it at all. Unlike Terminator 3, I will never even watch it again. So now we have T6, which is better than T3 certainly, but I still don't really consider canon. It's an alternate, non-canon optional sequel to T2.

So in my view, there's three "true" Terminator canons. T1 alone, T1+T2, or T1+T4. T1+T2+T6 can be a sort of "infinites" storyline, I guess. T3 and T5 don't exist in any canon.

Obviously, the highly convoluted nature of the mythology makes this property not very amenable to episodic storytelling and I'm neither surprised nor disappointed in the least that T6 was a bomb. Sometimes you should leave something restfully at peace. (Although I personally think T4 was a very good movie that remains underrated and certainly would have liked to have seen the storyline continue in that iteration)

(One particular problem I have with T6 is, at this point, given the totality of the video-camera evidence/testimony from everyone who encountered Uncle Bob in T2 (and the helicopter pilot that got thrown out by the T1000 especially) at the very least, some people would have started to wonder it was worth at least hearing what Sarah Connor had to say? I guess you could argue that she's still a fugitive because of a massive cover up operation that the lower authorities aren't aware of)