-Copyrights- Legal to have John Williams music?

Hi,

Is it legal to have Star Wars John Williams' music in own film?
I have seen many films that has SW music in it. Is there any license online or something?

Thanks

 

It's technichly (however you spell it) illegal, but as long as you aren't making money off your fan films, the copyright guys usually won't fuss about it.

 

It is absolutely NOT legal.

However, as you pointed out, it happens all the time. This doesn't mean it's legal, it just means the owners of the music and the performance rights just aren't prosecuting the offenders. They certainly COULD if they wanted to.

Somebody may respond by saying it's legal if you don't make money from it. This is incorrect. Making money only increases the possibility that you may be prosecuted, and the severity of the penalties that can be handed down.

However, the odds that your use of John Williams' music would be worth prosecuting you for are very, very small. You're probably safe.

But that doesn't mean it's legal. It isn't.

EDIT: Heh, brook_33 types faster than I do.

 

It's spelled 'technically'.

Is it legal to use John Williams' music if played by a private audience? Is the melody copyrighted?

 

It's fine to play to a private audience, and yes, the melody is copywrited, so if you wanted to get rid of all copyrights that are in your film, you wouldn't be able to rewrite the music and still keep the music themes.

 

Well, BMI owns all the rights to his music (Star Wars and otherwise).

This goes over the basics of their licencing. Keep in mind, BMI only owns performance rights. The sync rights are a little different and you might need those too. Baiscally, you either need rights (Direct written permission from John Williams himself), or a licence (Permission from an agent or consultant of John Williams) to use the music legally for what you are using it for.

Because his Star Wars music is used so much, it's hard to regulate just the Commercial segment of getting payment for the use of his music. Many times they arn't worried about the independent groups using his music as long as you arn't making anything on it. So, I wouldn't worry too much about putting Williams music into your film, as long as you give him due credit, and don't plan to make anything off of it.

~JW

 

Played by the audience?

The melody is copyrighted, so, no it is not legal. However, you CAN copyright your own version of the performance. It doesn't mean that you own the music. But, it does mean that even John Williams himself, cannot start selling a recording of a performance done by someone else.

Just like, George Lucas cannot take Pink 5 and start selling it in his own name. No matter who the characters are, the actual performance is copyrighted and owned by Trey Stokes.

Just as an example.

 

Actually, for the Atomfilms competitions you lose all rights to the film (pretty much) they could actually put it on a dvd and sell it and give you none of the profit, although they would have to credit it to you.

You might be able to get permission to use Star Wars music, for instance, my Band director has a friend who knows John Williams and was able to get permission to write out the music from the movies and have the Metropolitan Winds perform it last summer, (I hope they do it again because I missed last year). But there wouldn't be a point because I would doubt that they would give you the rights so that you could make money off of it, and there's no other reason to get rights unless you want to make money.

 

i imagine you'll get away with it a lot easier if you actually purchase the cd.

 

That's what I were thinking too. If one guy buys a CD and other guy just download a fanfilm. The guy 1 has spent money, but the guy 2 hasn't spent any money, because he got the music from fanfilm. That does not sound fair.

And also, before you have the music as mp3 on your hard drive, you must rip and pass the copy protection. Cracking a copy protection is illegal, so noone can have music in mp3 format legally?

And oh, yes. I have bought SW music CDs and I have ripped them to my cpu. Okay, I admit it, I have downloaded two mp3 remixes by unknown sw fan also... Anyway, if I rip music from cd, put them to fanfilm <- it's like giving free copies of John's music...

And one thing, does it matter much in which country you live. I mean here it's illegal to rip any single second of music cd... is it same in all over the world? If it's not, then I have to move somewhere else where I am allowed to rip and then move back to my homeland. Hmm, doesn't make any sense.

 

You are totally wrong on both of those points.

First: Atom Films has a very detailed distribution contract, that includes how and when the film is distributed. AND they pay you royalties for it. So, if they suddenly decide to make a DVD of all the films of the last 2 contests, I will get paid additional royalties on those sales for my two films they host.
Plus, they DO NOT own the films. I retian my copyrights on MY films. All they have is distribution rights. And as long as they are taking the bandwidth hit, PLUS paying me royalties... What's so bad about that?!?


Secondly... There are MANY other reasons than "making money" for obtaining a license. Even for charity. But the biggest and bestest reason of all is to protect yourself from any legal liability. If you obtain a license - then produce exactly what you said you would - no one can say boo to you afterward. It matters not if money changes hands, or not. It's all about getting permission to use someone else's stuff.

And as a side note, it IS 100% LEGAL to obtain a license to MAKE MONEY on someone else's work as long as you obtain a license appropriate to do so. But, trust me, it will cost you a LOT out of pocket to start with.

 

That's totally incorrect. You are allowed to make a 100% CD audio copy of a CD that you paid for. As a back up, or some such. You are also allowed to rip it to MP3. Totally legal. You bought it. You paid for it. You OWN it. You can also copy it to your iPod, if you want... You are not, however, allowed to put it on your friend's iPod.

All the nonsense that has come out about this lately has greyed that area and made it difficult to understand. It's the guy who buys the CD, then make 100 copies and sells it to his friends. THAT's the guy all that copy protection and stuff is working against.

It's all to prevent piracy. It is not to stop people who are not doing anything wroing or unethical with music that they paid for.


What really sucks is that there are so many people that are pushing the limits of what technology can do, regarless of what is ethical and/or legal. And it has caused the people making the cds and DVDs to restrict their products to the point of punishing the honest consumers just as badly as the pirates. That's really a bummer. And it's f'd up.

 

Durb, your first sentence is incorrect. The guy you're quoting is assuming correctly. If you're reply is arguing that it's technically "fair use" to copy content from a CD onto an MP3 player, then you are mistaken.

Ask the RIAA.

 

I were allowed to rip to mp3s few months ago, but not anymore. I dunno wheather you can rip or not, but there's law that says it's illegal to rip your music cds to mp3 format in Finland. I also dunno why that law exists, but I don't think nobody follows that notch of law...

 

I don't know about Finish law. But I know how things are here in the US. I am totally correct about this. Some new misc. restrictions have been written in to some things, but in no case has it ever been backed by a court of law.

Time was, you were allowed to copy your cassette tapes as back ups. Same thing with CDs, including any software you bought. But people started taking MAJOR advantage of that situation as it was. This included making a huge number of copies for anyone that wanted them. This caused the RIAA to crack down. This is what brought about the whole DRM thing. (which ALSO really sucks. If I download a song, and pay for it, why should it be restricted to THIS machine alone? - I BOUGHT IT!!)

Just because companies start writing all kinds of restrictive nonsense into their "fair use" clauses, does not mean they will be upheld, or even respected in court. This includes anything the jerkoffs at the RIAA have to say about anything. Those are the dudes that allowed burning us to the tune of $16 a pop for CDs that cost them $.03 to make. So, I don't think they have a leg to stand on if they tell me I can't put a CD that I PAID for, on my iPod. So, I'll friggin do it and let them try to fight me. (Right... That'll happen). btw: I don't even own an iPod. But I use MP3s like mad.

And, when I say that a lot of the crap written into those clauses can never be upheld... Remember that sometimes those dude write stuff like, "by using this software, you are legally allowing us to move into your house and sleep in your bed." This is because NO ONE ever reads that crap. The courts know this as well as anyone. So it's a bunch of vapor-law. It means nothing.

Mind you all... Very few comapanies have even bothered to put any sort of copy restrictions on their CDs. Sony is the only one that comes to mind. And they made the great mistake of including software that hosed people's machines! Great work guys!!! There's a great incentive for me to actuall BUY CDs from them!!



As a side note... Anyone who agrees with all of this, might want to think twice about upgrading to the next version of Windows. Because ALL of this restriction, across the board, is about to get worse. Prepare to be assimilated. Resistence is futile.

 

Antognizing the RIAA for being dips, which they are, does not change the fact that it is an actionable offense to copy music from your CD's and put them on your portable music player, durb.

This was argued in front of the Supreme Court, dude.

 

Oookay... Evidently, I missed something. So, I'll back down from that point.

But, just the same... You must admit, there is something terribly wrong with someone telling you that you cannot put music that you legally paid for in ANY other format than what you purchased.

I cannot believe they got anyone to actually back them on that considering how stupid it is.

 

I agree with you, I just wish you'd stop acting like you knew everything.

"I am totally correct about this."

Just chill out, sometimes.

 

i think it only becomed illegal when you distribute them. in a film is a different thing.

 

No, it isn't. I'm not saying you have anything to worry about, but there's no conjecture to what the release says. You do it, they can call you on it.

 

how is it different from a preview clip on walmart.com or something? if it's incomplete, very low quality, or has something else over it, it's legal, isn't it? a fan film would have all kinds of dialogue and effects and stuff over the music.

for example, i went to a pay sound effect site looking for sword sounds. they had previews of the sounds, so you know what you're buying. they had the word "preview" spoken in the sound. unfortunately for them, they put them in between the sounds instead of over them. i downloaded all the files and simply cut the word out, leaving nice clean, and perfectly legal, sounds, that i would otherwise had to pay 2 bucks each for.

 

Uh... Before I get into this... Thanks, Fig, for once again putting me in my place. You could find nicer words for that kinda thing though. I'm really only trying to help. Maybe I don't know everything.... Excuse me for not following every stupid law our gov't passes... Especially where it concerns idiots like the RIAA, where they take common sense and bend it to suit their own greed... I'll be more careful when speaking up...


Like, now, for instance...

neo_mp5 Dude... Those preview sounds ARE LICENSED. By WalMart (Or whomever it was, whose site you were at.) The fact that you managed to figure out how to circumvent their security and hork the sound without paying for it does not make it legal. Quite the opposite, in fact. What you are describing makes you a thief. A clever thief, perhaps, but a thief nonetheless.

On top of that, you are proudly bragging here about having horked low quality preview versions of clips, as if that's something really huge. That's like stealing day old bread and bragging about it to the folks that bought fresh bread the same day... Big deal... Have fun with the low quality stuff you horked.

 

okay, you're not understanding.


they were high quality preview sounds. they put them up on the page themselves. but they put the word "preview" into them expecting that to make the sound useless as anything but a preview. downloading those previews is perfectly legal.


here's an example of one:

http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HIYUITML64BL176Q5JLV93KA2

 

It actually ISN'T illegal. Why? Let me explain:

According to the copyright law, after a work is published (film scoring, piece, pop song, overture, etc) anyone, yes ANYONE, has the right to REPRODUCE that work, or USE that work. This is called a "mandatory" or "expected" liscence. The owner of the copyright HAS to give the person the permission to do the song. Said person shall use or Reproduce said work for the desired amount dictated in the copyright law. The standard royalty fee is 9.1 cents PER SONG, PER ALBUM. However: THIS IS ONLY IF YOU ARE DISTRIBUTING THE MUSIC WITH INTENT TO SELL. If you put the work up on the internet without any intention of gaining ANY credit what-so-ever, then you do not need to pay the 9.1 cents standard fee. You must give proper respect to the author. The usage of copyrighted material for things that are just hobbies, where noone is making any money off of it (i.e. Fanfilms, fan-audio, a fan redoing the "Duel of the Fates" in a heavy metal surrounding, but not accepting any money and not selling the work) then it is called "Fair Use." Fair use is also the use of small lines. Such as if you wanted to use a very small line from one of JOhn Williams's scores, and write your own score, using that small 2 measure line, it would also be considered Fair Use.

Examples:

Star Wars Fanfilm Direction A is making a movie, Director B is ALSO making a movie.

Both directors use excerpts of the John Williams score for their movie. They both give proper acknolegdement to both LucasArts for their use of the star wars universe and/or characters.

However:

Director A asks for money from people if they want a DVD. However he only asks for 1 dollar, plus 50 cents S/P, which will only cover his cost.

Director B ONLY posts the film online, not asking ANY money for their work under any circumstances.

Director B would be fine, since he comes under Fair Use for both The star wars copyrights and the music copyrights. Director A however would have just as many Lucasfilm lawyers banging down his door, as if he had making pirated copies of any of the Star Wars movies. Since he asked money for the work, even though it ONLY covered his cost, that is where he goes over the fair use line.

So I hope that answers your question. If you are making NO money off it what-so-ever, and you give credit where credit is due, then it is perfectly legal to do.


I invite anyone to PM me if they have any questions about Music copyright, or music publishing law since I have a good deal of knowledge in that area. I'm always willing to help people out.


EDIT: If you wanted to make a movie that was NOT star wars related, and you wanted to use John Williams' score and make money from it, you would have to obtain what is called a "Sync Liscence" which does NOT have a flat fee. People pay anywhere between $100 and $100,000 PER SONG for sync liscences. On top of that, you have to pay 9.1 cents per song, PER MOVIE SOLD since it ALSO comes under writer copyright royalty.

If it is a TV show, however, you would only need to get a "blanket liscence" from either ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC, depending on which one liscences the music you want. I may be incorrect, but Im pretty sure that you only need this, and not a sync liscence if it is a TV show.