Coruscant: occupation or liberation?

Coruscant was seized by the New Republic, but was its membership in that state voluntary or involuntary? I am not suggesting it preferred Imperial warlords, only that, as far as I know, no referendum was ever taken to determine Coruscanti wishes.

 

Just judging based upon the riot scene and statue tipping at the end of ROTJ SE... I'm going to say it was a liberation.

 

Out of a trillion beings, just a few thousand were actually seen rioting. Not convincing enough. Sourcebooks and the like all insist that Coruscant was ardently Imperial.

 

Not entirely true. Keep in mind the following:

1. The Empire censored and controlled all info that was spread in the Core. The Holonet was the Emperor's private plaything.

2. Republican tradition. This world was the capital of the Old Republic for 25 millenia. The Empire controlled it for less than 30 years. Given the lifespan of people in the GFFA, almost all those alive in Coruscant when it was the center of the Republic lived to see it liberated by the New Republic.

3. The Imperial loyalists were just the people in power. And, it is well established that they fled Coruscant and linked up with the remnants of the Empire.

There is exactly zero evidence that the New Republic had trouble running Coruscant. There is no mention of large bodies of Republic troops having to be deployed to maintain order and fight pro-Imperial insurgents.

Lastly, if the EU has shown anything, it is that the Coruscanti value order more than anything. They tend to not care alot about which government is in power, so long as they are still central and still protected.

--Adm. Nick

 

George Lucas' intent was it was liberation.

The EU's opinion should be considered secondary.

In George Lucas' opinion, the Empire was hated on Coruscant.

And with good reason.

The EU also agrees. When Coruscant was liberated, the citizens butchered everyone in the Imperial Palace. Even innocents. Why? Because they were hated like the Bathists in Iraq.

 

No offense but....I think the portions of EU that hold some amount of realism and are already well-established should have the final say, and George Lucas's opinion should be considered secondary >_>

If the citizens of Coruscant were that impassioned about their cause then there would have been a mass migration as they go off to fight for the Rebel Alliance. Coruscant would have been a massive insurrection right in the heart of the Empire. If Coruscantis were so hostile to Imperial control, then Ysanne Isard's little insurgency would never have been able to get off the ground. No number of intelligence or terrorist operatives can hold back public opinion on that scale.

Finally, the celebration scene on Coruscant makes no sense. If people kept their Rebel sympathies hidden for twenty years then they would know better than to congregate out in the middle of nowhere and allow the Imperials to simply mow them down. You also do not include a happy-happy celebration scene if you're going to have the Empire come in and shut down the party right afterwards.

 

Is this based on something Lucas actually said, or is this using the Chuck-brand Author-Intent-Psychic-Powers? again?

 

George Lucas put it in the movie. Are you actually going to argue that a celebration on Coruscant in the movie, represents a small minority even when George Lucas pans over the entire city with confetti?

Why do people want Coruscant not to cheer?

Why do we want them mourn the Emperor?

Why can't it be the fall of communism?

You know, which is WHAT THIS IS A VISUAL CUE TO? I dislike EU fanon that tries to change the movies.

The Empire was a universally hated Tyranny. Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, Bespin, and Endor are the most diverse planets imaginable yet they all celebrate the Emperor's death. He destroyed Alderaan. That's like murdering the whole of Switzerland or Chicago.

Would YOU mourn a President who did that?

 

The Empire was a universally hated Tyranny. Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, Bespin, and Endor are the most diverse planets imaginable yet they all celebrate the Emperor's death. He destroyed Alderaan. That's like murdering the whole of Switzerland or Chicago.

Would YOU mourn a President who did that?

Personally, I wouldn't. If anything, that just made more people hate the Emperor even more.

 

Considering Coruscant was added in 97 to be a "Hey, look at this neat planet from the upcoming prequels" that's a touch unfair.

 

True.

Though it wasn't until recently that the Empire was portrayed as being mourned by nearly anybody.

The HTTE books had Coruscant snuggly under the New Republic.

 

The scenes on Coruscant in those books were all set in the Imperial Palace, ie. the bastion of the New Republic's authority, or otherwise involved the inner circle of that heirarchy. We don't get what the man on the street thinks. That's like watching The West Wing and saying that everyone in the country supports Bartlet.

 

Occam's Razor.

The Rogue Squadron books also had it clear that the majority of people supported the New Republic.

It helped that Kirtan Loor's Imperial Resistance was also a bunch of baby killers.

 

Wow. hi, my name is reality. Too bad we've never met.


okay now that I've gotten that out of my system, to say that the emperor was venerated BY FREE WILL OF THE CITIZENRY is absolutely the single most incorrect thing possible. We know the SENATE, under the mind control power of the dark side, was willing to let Palps name himself emperor. The citizenry of Coruscant saw him as the "guiding power" of the Republic's victory in the Clone Wars, without ever knowing that he CAUSED it. And I tend to think about it (and probably correctly) in the sense of the citzenry knew better than to revolt against the EMPEROR thanks to his loads of clone troopers and his well known love of orbital bombardment.

Also don't forget, Coruscant also had that system of artificial air scrubbers that Palps had made and controlled, so that if there were an insurrection he could cut off the air supply, and strangle Corsuscant. they say he kept it secret. But did he really? Terror tactics were the emperor's tea and crumpets. he LOVED terrorizing the populace of every planet under imperial control.

 

If this were an optimistic EU, I'd say it was liberation. Right now, with the way things are going, with how we have occasional discussions in EU novels where people wish the Empire was still in power (mainly in discussions relating to the YV War), the answer isn't so clear-cut.

I'm with Charlemagne on this mostly though. The Special Editions had celebrations on Coruscant, with the people tearing down a statue of Palpatine as soon as news of his death spreads, so I think its implied that people liked the Alliance killing Palpatine.

In the EU, however, in the Wraith Squadron novel Iron Fist, a pilot mentions his resistance cell leaked the news, leading to cheering masses in one of the Coruscant's plazas before the Imperials shot the crowd. And it does kinda make sense that the oppresive Empire wouldn't like people celebrating in the streets the death of the ruler on the galactic capital planet. But I still miss the simpliicity of just thinking everybody hated Palpatine.

During the Rogue Squadron novels, there didn't seem to be much problems with New Republic people moving through the normal streets, although that was during the Krytos plague, so there were bigger things to worry about. Later on, though, Jaina and Jacen were friends with Zekk, one of Coruscant's underdwellers, and there wasn't too much danger (well, no more than whenever the Solo children were kidnapped). Its not like the New Republic government had to deal with frequent protests against their rule. At least during the Bantam era of books.

After VotF... well, everybody has something to whine about. During LotF, they had Bothan assasins and Corellian terrorists everywhere it seemed. At least during Legacy era, the Empire conquered Coruscant, and then the Sith took over, and there aren't frequent protests, but Sith governments tend to be the ones who gun down everybody in the general area of protestors, whether they're protesting or not, so that's probably why there arne't more protests. At least during the early years of the New Republic, there didn't seem to protests. I just hope they don't ruin that image in upcoming books.

 

I think it was in one of the X-wing novels one of the pilots is talking about that scene and says that the rioting was quickly put down by Imperial forces. So I think that the rioting would be an indication of the population's stance on the government... that they were willing to risk arrest or worse for celebrating, imagine how many of the trillion odd people didnt want to risk it but were glad all the same

 

Umm, you're the one who's missing reality, methinks.

There was no Dark Side mind control of the Senate. He didn't use any powers on them. The whole *point* of the Prequel Trilogy is that the Senate gave up liberty of their own free will.

As for the air scrubbers, they'd been there for millennia; Palpy may have controlled them, but he sure didn't make them.

 

You can be Loyal and still hate the government.

Fear of the Empire's wrath and Obedience does not translate into Love.

And that loyalty was also stated to be not particularly deep, given the planet didn't fire a shot in its defense and that its populous mobbed and murdered the people in the palace.

Yes, Palpatine was put into power willingly.

It's also been 20 years as well.

The Senate has been dissolved and the Emperor's evil has been shown nakedly with Alderaan's destruction.

It's like Hitler Pre-Chancellorship and Post.

 

But how representative of Coruscant's population was the mob?

For all we know, it could have been orchestrated by the Advisory Council, which wasn't above unleashing a bunch of dangerous gangsters on Coruscant to distract the Imperials in preparation for invasion.

 

The mob that stormed the palace are specifically named as Rebel partisans in Children of the Jedi. They weren't the general populace.

 

That goes two ways doesn't it?

For all we know, the only people loyal on Coruscant were the Stormtroopers and COMPNOR.

Why?

If the general populous attacks an Imperial building, they become partisans.

I'm not contesting that at the start of the Empire's reign, it wasn't widely popular. Also, there's holdouts that clearly survive to the modern era. I am suggesting, however, that the last two and a half years before the Battle of Endor were particularly bad for the Empire's popularity. The Boston Massacre and problems thereof helped enflame roughly 50% of the populous against Britain (the rest became Canadians)

The real world shows that a lot of dictators can enjoy widespread political support but be despised too. Stalin had people crushed to death at his funeral yet was widely held as the most hated man in the Soviet Union.

(I tend to think it's actually more realistic to have people able to hate a figure and revere him at once. In most people's eyes, Palpatine was a bit like an evil god. You didn't hate him without acknowledging he was almost supernaturally above you)

 

What? Partisans are an organized form of guerrilla warfare, not any member of a mob. And as I said, they're specifically identified as being Rebels-with-a-capital-R.