Count Dooku and Saruman

Does anyone else feel like Dooku and Saruman are essentially the same character, each operating as puppets of a Dark Lord? Strangely, they both also die at the beginning of the third film.

 

This topic may be better suited for the prequel trilogy, as this specific forum is for discussion of topics that bridge all six films.

They seem very similar because of Christopher Lee, there are more detailed differences.

-Seldon

 

interesting, well i for one thought they should have had dooku with the long fingernails and have some droids behind him and have him say 'toooooooo warrrrr!!!" like he did in two towers.

 

Oh, that's why I have no idea who Saruman is.

 

<<interesting, well i for one thought they should have had dooku with the long fingernails and have some droids behind him and have him say 'toooooooo warrrrr!!!" like he did in two towers. >>


Close though.. "I have good news my lord. The War has begun."

 

I think they are very much alike. They both got killed very early in the third film. I wish they had better deaths.

 

They are very similar in a way. They both were very respectable people on the good side, the Jedi and the 5 wizards, who then left in a very sly way to the dark side. For instance, in LotR Gandalf never knew Saruman was evil until he came to Orthanc and visited him and was then held prisoner. Same really with Dooku. At the beginning, Mace even says it's not in his character, but once Obi stumbles upon him his true side is revealed. So, both were evil far before either one was exposed. As well, a sith desires power and will soon turn on their master. Well, Saruman also was planning on overthrowing Sauron, so same thing there(although that part is not shown in the movie).

However, what I find a bigger connection is Obi-wan in the OT being similar to Gandalf in the first half of LotR. Follow me closely. At the beginning of A New Hope, Ben is sort of the odd old man. In fact, Owen even calls him a "crazy old wizard", and doesn't want Luke to come on contact with him as Obi-wan will disrupt things and start problems. Same with Gandlaf. He's the crazy old wizard(literally this time) who is shunned by all the hobbits. As well, the only people not to shun them are the young characters who end up being the main character: Luke, and Frodo(ok, Gandalf had a few more people, but they also became main characters. The overall population of Hobbiton however found him "a disturber of the peace"). Both then lead their respective groups on a mission. Now move on a bit later, and look at their deaths. They each die at the hands of a "shadow". Gandlaf dies to the Balrog, a creature of "shadow and flame", and Ben dies at the hands of Vader, a character in all black. When they die, they each die protecting the exit allowing the other characters to escape. In LotR, Gandalf stands blocking the Balrog from the other characters as they cross the bridge. Obi-wan blocks Vader and distracts the stomrtroopers as the main characters go to the Falcon. Lastly, when Obi-wan dies, he claims "if you strike me down, I will become more powerfull than you could possibly imagine." He then dies, and then returns in the second movie, being one with the force. Gandalf, same thing. He dies, and then returns in the second part as Gandalf the White, which is more powerfull than he was before, and actually the most powerfull of the wizards. See, they're practically the same. In many ways, I think George probabaly got a little influence on Obi-wan from Gandalf. After all, he read a lot of books and stuff to draw ideas from when writing Star Wars, such as Oddyse(spelling?) and so forth, so perhaps LotR was one of them. After all, it was at that time the second most read book in the world next to the Bible.

 

good analysis, Mags

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=19033558&start=20104529

 

hmmm in the movies saruman isnt killed just defeated and left powerless am i correct?

 

"Did you really think your Padwan can contend with the will of Sidious? There are none who can. We must join with him, Obi Wan. We must join Sidious. It would be wise, my friend"

"A new power is rising! It's victory is at hand! This night, the planets will be stained with the blood of the Republic! March to Coruscant! Leave none alive! TO WAAAAAR!!! There will be no dawn for democracy!"

"Jedi...what is the Jedi but brigands, where the Younglings roll around with the dogs! The victory at Coruscant does not belong to you, Master Jedi! You are a lesser son of greater sires!"

 

Son_of_Jango posted on 6/13/05 6:04pm

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hmmm in the movies saruman isnt killed just defeated and left powerless am i correct?
[hr][/blockquote]

If by "defeated and left powerless" you mean stabbed in the back falling on some spikes and drowning, then yes he was.

 

^ For everyone's information, Saruman's death is in the Extended Edition of ROTK.

 

Both use deception very well, as Saruman's lust for the Ring makes him tell the White Council 'to wait it out,' while Sauron increases in strength. Dooku, after leaving the Jedi Order, has the Jedi believe he still holds Jedi ideals, while he lets Sidious' plan advance.

Both are powerful and convincing speakers, thanks to their special abilities (Saruman can trick humans and hobbits, while Dooku leads the CIS propoganda campaign).

And it's a reach, but Dooku kinda had a tower thing going on the Invisible Hand.

In the book, Saruman is also known for his seductive voice.

That's pretty much what I meant.

 

In the book, Saruman is also known for his seductive voice.