Dark Side / "Light" Side

I can't tell you how my blood boils when I hear the term "light side" of the force, the assumed opposite of the dark side. In the original trilogy it is directly referenced as the "good side". "light side" makes it sound like some sort of halfbaked low-fat variant. When you see or hear someone say "light side" make it your business to stamp on their foot and call them Susan.

Thanks.

 

What if they dont have any feet, and their name IS susan?

 

What if one does not believe in a light or dark side, but rather only the Force?

Besides, does it make any sense to call the Dark side the Dark side and the Light side Good side?

I prefer the light side over the good side any day of the week. Then again, I don't believe in a light or dark side, only the Force and the Force has no sides.

 

Right, and the light or dark energy comes within each person, we know EV.

 

^^^What he said!^^^

 

"Then again, I don't believe in a light or dark side, only the Force and the Force has no sides."

Fascinating. What, in the Star Wars films, is there to support that belief? Or could it be that you are attaching personal religious belief to a concept from a science fiction film? To be honest, I'm not interested in people disagreeing. I don't see how one can disagree with fact. The Star Wars canon consists of the films, and the films refer to the "good side" not the "light side", Susan.

 

Come back after, you've read the New Jedi Order.


Wiggins Out!

 

I personally like the term "Light Side" rather then the "Good Side" of the force. Mostly because of its other half the "Dark Side" .

I mean you do not characterize the actors as "black" & "White", correct?

Why make an assumption that because its good it should automatically be considered that?

Thats just my two cents...if worth beans!

(No pun intented )

 

The Star Wars canon consists of the films

Exactly. And so therefore, in the EU, we can call it whatever the HELL we want.


Oh...and...

I mean you do not characterize the actors as "black" & "White"

You're right. Yellow and Brown should be in there too....wow that was racist.

 

To quote Merlin "Good...Evil... you can't have one without the other". I can't remember if those were his exact words, but he said something like that. In other words, there isn't "only the Force". Nothing is truly one sided. Everything has at least two sides. Having more then one side is what causes balance.

 

Who ever said the force was a side?

 

I've always that the Force was one sided, but it was certainly nice when the NJO started to walk that path as well.

I just don't see how the Force can have two different sides.

 

Right. Just like in Lord of the Rings how Sauron was just as much a wizard as Gandalf and Radaghast and Saruman until he decided to use his power for evil. The Saruman seemed to like the idea. They were all using wizard power, just for different reasons.

Same in Harry Potter...Voldemort is just as much a wizard as Dumbledore, they're just using their powers in a different way for different purposes, and that is what makes them "good" and "bad."

The Jedi and the Sith are both using the Force, but they are using it for their own purposes. It is referred to as the "good" and "bad" sides of the Force because those who use it make it that way. Whatever portion of the Force the Sith use, it is now "bad" Force, while whatever part the Jedi use is "good" Force.

 

The Star Wars canon consists of the films

Incorrect. The films are the top rung on the canon ladder. Next comes the novelizations and radio dramas, and then the novels, which are considered canon as well.

As Wiggins said, come back after you've read NJO. You'll never look at life, or Star Wars, the same way again.

 

Yeah, I somehow missed that post. The Expanded Universe is just as much canon as the films in the eyes of not only myself but of LFL. You may get supporters if you say that on the movie boards, but not these.

 

I've never gotten why some irate fans think they can dictate canon policy, or why they even think their opinion matters to LFL or anyone else.

 

I've never gotten why some irate fans think they can dictate canon policy, or why they even think their opinion matters to LFL or anyone else.

Very, very true. Whatever one's personal opinion is, the official opinion of LFL, the one that matters, is that all EU excpet Tales and Infinites is canon. That's the official story and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

 

E_V...
"I've always that the Force was one sided, but it was certainly nice when the NJO started to walk that path as well. I just don't see how the Force can have two different sides."

It's actually pretty reasonable to me. Given that ultimately, at its basest level, the Force is a "mystical energy field."

Put currrent emphasis on the "energy field" part of it, and we have a number of real-world analogues in the form of current or electricity. Given that Force Lightning is an absolute canon item, and the analogy is not too far off, IMO. But, let's get to electricity - it's something which can have multiple phases (imaginary numbers, etc.), and multiple types of forms.

Why then, cannot this mystical energy field have different aspects to it as well. The Light Side and the Dark Side are two different phases of the Force.

And then now focus on the "mystical" part of it, with "divine" ties, and now each aspect having instead just a mathematical phase, but also a moral inclination.

The Light Side, due to its mystical aspect has a calming, more focused and nurturing effect - healing, better defenses, etc. Whereas the Dark Side facilitates chaos, harm, destruction - telekinetic kill, Force lightening, etc.

Instead of simply plugging an American voltage appliance into an incompatible European voltage outlet, tapping the Dark Side energy would be like plugging your Light Side toaster into a Dark Side outlet and having it spit the toast out at hypersonic speeds, killing your dog because that's its natural inclination to do so.

 

That'd be an awesome way for a dog to die.

 

someone agreed with me!

 

That'd be an awesome way for a dog to die.

 

*throws a piece of bread at a dog*

Die, hound! Die!

 

Did someoen just use Harry Potter for a philosophical debate? If so, said person should be taken out and shot. Don't worry, ust kidding. Sort of...

 

I've never gotten why some irate fans think they can dictate canon policy, or why they even think their opinion matters to LFL or anyone else.

Who's trying to dictate canon policy? Forums are still for expressing opinion, right? Do you really need the tedious "in my humble opinion" qualification tagged onto everything that moves in order to render it acceptable and yet remove any semblence of conviction that the opinion had otherwise? The EU is simply simply *not* canon. Something is either canon or it is not, there are not degrees. Lucas has said he might borrow and use ideas from the EU, or reference things he thinks are neat, but he certainly doesn't feel bound to comply to the EU - which he would have to by its very definition if canon it was.

The off-topic discussion on the nature of the force baffles me too. I don't see how so many EU fans are willing to so thoroughly contradict the original trilogy. It baffles me.

 

The off-topic discussion on the nature of the force baffles me too. I don't see how so many EU fans are willing to so thoroughly contradict the original trilogy. It baffles me.

Then my friend, you should release your charter'd mind and ponder exactly what it is both the films and the expanded universe literature have expounded upon with regard to the Force: and in doing so, see that most of the above discussion is not off-topic, but rather, essentially on-topic.

Let's look at some source material from the films, which as Alpha-Red correctly stated, are simply the "top rung" of canonical sources.

In A New Hope we are first exposed to the nature of the Force when Ben Kenobi explains the nature of his senile mutterings to Luke.

He explains that "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together". Importantly, he speaks of Vader as having been "seduced by the Dark Side of the Force."

Now on the surface it is easy to assume that this is giving the "Dark Side" some sembalance of identity, almost as if it is acting as a free agent, a rogue will, an ephermal entity that can both be conceived off and grasped, and furthermore, affecting real change and control over the physical world.

It would not be wrong at this stage, to interpret the Dark Side as an external malevolence, half of an all-encompassing power analagous to the Devil or any other evil diety in real world culture. But as we move on in the movie source material, we see that this is in no way implied by the material but rather the audience's pre-concieved notions: and that in fact, the NJO and EU source material seems to explore the far more neat and credible interpretion of film canon.

Consider one of Ben's other ANH quotes: "Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them. Stretch out with your feelings".

Here we see evidence that the Force and use thereof is a direct expression of feelings, emotions, internal processes: a concept further fleshed out in the Jedi Code.
Ben instructs not the trust senses of the external world, but rather to turn inward and examine our internal state as a method of tapping into and communicating with the Force. This is an interesting point, which we'll come back to.

Consider some of Yoda's philosophy from the films, especially considering that most of what Yoda says is a considered wording with a mind toward who he is training: the son of Vader.
"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force... But beware of the dark side."

Alright, we've been there before. A Jedi can tap into the Force, he can garner strength from it, marshalling this inward focus as indicated with Ben's teachings to use the Force. But a Jedi must always beware the "Dark Side" when using the force, when "inwardly looking".
Now this would suggest that the Dark Side perhaps dwells within the individual, the Jedi. It does not implicitly imply it yet, but it is a logical step.
Let's continue to look at our "top rung" source material.

"If once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny."

Again, I'm confused. If the Dark Side is some externally focused and viable entity, an active half of a dualist entity, then this line makes me ponder. It seems a lot neater if we change our perspective. If once YOU start down the dark PATH...this implies that the individual, our inwardly focused individual of last example, starts down a path, an alternative, a way of doing things at the crossroads of choice, he will be forever dominated by the dark.

Choice is by neccessity an inward machination, it is an expression of our internal state, by chance or design a process closely linked with emotion, reason, rationale, and all the other process' Ben claims are key to accessing the Force. Again, the Force is presented as a manifestation of what occurs within the individual.

Now one of my favourites: "Strike me down with all your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete".

Here the Em