Darkness Beyond Darkness: An Analysis of Emperor Palpatine

Note: This is an essay that I wrote on another forum that I figured I would post here; an analysis of the powers and knowledge of Emperor Palpatine. Apologies if this is the wrong area!

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Perceptions of the character of Palpatine have changed enormously throughout the past four years. At one time, the popular perception was that he was among the weakest of the Sith Lords in the mythos. As the years went on, Palpatine began to climb the ranks of strength and skill in the public?s eye until, as of 2009, many believe that he is the most powerful dark side practitioner in the whole of Star Wars canon. The quotes, accolades, and achievements to Palpatine?s name have long been researched and discovered by Publius, Lightsnake, and myself, but given the controversy of certain individuals (read: Nebaris and Janus) still questioning Palpatine?s place in the hierarchy of Force users, I have decided to draft a comprehensive essay of the character?s many strengths relative to Force use and combat. Hopefully, by the end, the reader will be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Emperor Palpatine is not just the most powerful Sith Lord in the mythos, but the most powerful Force user in general, bar none.
Special thanks to Stardestroyer.net members Publius and Illuminatus Primus, KMC members Faunus, Darth Sexy, Elite Hunter, Enyalus, and Captain Valerian for scholarly example and Lightsnake for changing a forum.

The most powerful Sith Lord ever?

It should be noted that, aside of the wealth of accolades and feats to augment his status relative to his Sith peers, Palpatine is the only character who has been declared the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Popular alternatives such as ancient Sith Lord Marka Ragnos and former Jedi Darth Revan have only ever been proclaimed the strongest of their time. The only other character that has been deemed the most powerful of his or her kind ever was the Jedi Grandmaster Yoda. The statements, the sources, and an analysis of each are below:
?Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.?(The New Essential Chronology, page 84)
It has been contended by skeptics that the adjective ?most powerful? is in reference to Palpatine?s political ascension. In a manner of speaking, this is correct; Palpatine?s ascent to Galactic Emperor gave him an unprecedented political stranglehold on the galaxy, an office that no other Sith achieved nor would ever achieve again (false Sith Lords Darth Caedus and, after him, Darth Krayt would proclaim themselves rulers of the galaxy; however, their legitimacy to the Sith title is nonexistent and both ruled only roughly half of the galaxy during their respective reigns). In practice, however, this contention is demonstrably false. The context of the situation was not a political debate or an election, but a battle to the death between the Dark Lord of the Sith and the Grandmaster of the Jedi, eliminating all possibilities that it is a reference to political acumen.
It should be noted, however, that the statement is from an in-universe source. The New Essential Chronology is actually written by Voren Na?al and the Galactic Alliance Historical Council, not a source from the out-of-universe omniscient narrator. What does this mean? That, simply put, this source alone cannot be used as conclusive evidence that Palpatine is more powerful than any other Sith Lord in history. That said, it is a credible and well-written chronology, drafted by the historical council of a galactic superpower with access to nearly unlimited resources; a far cry from an unsubstantiated or dubious claim made by a fallible individual. Though it cannot be used singularly, it is credible enough to function as a supplement to the rest of the argument.
?The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.?

 

Very nice essay. It is very convincing and I really like how you integrated all the quotes in. Once again very convincing.

 

Thanks. I was afraid that people would be like "WT* too long!"

LAJ edit - you can't use that acronym here.

 

Though he's using the darkside which is the easier option, no real training or discipline required just raw potential in terms of power. Had Yoda been using the darkside he could have kicked Sidious into oblivion.

 

Bravo!
Even if I read all the sources you mention you give us a very clear and good sum up of all the pertinents fact.
Just some things : You didn't developp a lot Sidious's defeat against Windu, his luck against Yoda and the fact that he died lamely in the DS. Furthermore, you didn't talk a lot about his clones and his even more lamely final death by the hand of Solo and Brand... Poor end for the most powerful Sith Lord no?

I must disagree with your statement with one word : Bane!

Here is the prophety of the Sith'ari :

So it appears that Bane is the most powerful sith lord of all time...
In another point of view Sidious is the one sith lord who gave the sith their revenge, the culmination of the Rule of two, the "son" of Bane...

I, for one, agree with you about all your arguments and about the fact Sidious is the most powerfull Force user ever.
As for your intro, you forgot Exar Kun!!!!

About Yoda, saying IF he had used the Dark Side he would have been better, it's an utopy. It says the Dark Side is stronger and the Sith are the best no matter what (I agree with that but it seems a little shortsighted no?) In fact Sidious as a higher midichlorian count than Yoda so...

 

Well Done Sir. I learned much today, I thank you for that.

If Darth Bane was the Sithari, then Darth Sidiuos was the ultimate culmination of Bane's ideal Sith Lord. Dath Bane was also a slave for knowledge, and the paralells between them are obvious. They both were self learners, both respected the past Sith Lords, both had tremendous Force capabilities, and both were expert lightsabre dualists. The difference is that Sidious carried out the vision that Bane had for the Sith Order. So Bane starts and Sidious finishes the Sith takeover of the galaxy. It just makes you wonder what all the other Sith Lords between Darth Bane and Darth Sidious were doing for a thousand some-odd years?

 

The darkside allows you to go all out without inhibition, and in Yoda Dark Rendevous we get a glimpse as to what Yoda would have been had he turned to the darkside. But ultimately the darkside goes against the will of the Force and that ultimately proves to be be the undoing of anyone who uses it. It's kind of like fighting against nature as opposed to working alongside it. It's kind of like burning coal as a power source instead of using renewable energy, you can technically as much energy from renewable sources but it's much more difficult to achieve, but in the long term it works out better. Had Sidious not being using a cheap, quick but dirty source of power he probably wouldn't have had anything over Yoda, who had 1000 years to perfect his powers.

 

That was a really good essay,Sable_Hart.

As for bane being the more powerful than sidious,according to the dark side Sourcebook darth sidious was the most powerful sith lord to come out of the rule of two order.

here's the quote.
"When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered -- in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane -- only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge."

 

Hum I read it this way :
The most powerful of these[two sith] who came out of shadow.
So it just means Sidious was most powerful than Darth Maul his apprentice.What a big piece of news!
But maybe I read it wrong...

 

You might consider adding spaces between paragraphs.

 

Thanks for the kind words!

RE: Bane vs. Sidious

The line in the Sith'ari prophecy regarding "perfection" is clearly exaggerated: Bane died, did he not? Hardly perfect. Moreover, the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia and Complete Visual Dictionary mention that "the Sith had been waiting for a millennium for the birth of one powerful enough to return them from hiding" and "that one is Darth Sidious." Yoda's musings regarding Sidious in Labyrinth of Evil essentially repeat the line verbatim. If Bane were more powerful than Sidious, he would have been able to achieve his Order's goals. He failed to do so; for all of Bane's undoubted power, Sidious's showings are ultimately greater.

RE: Mace vs. Sidious

What more is there to elaborate upon? Palpatine and Mace dueled; Mace's mastery of the shatterpoint charism and Vaapad imbued him with the power to defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel. Nothing more to say.

RE: Sidious's ignominous death

I'd submit to you that Palpatine's death was anything but lame. Sure, he was shot in the back by Han Solo, but that was intended: Palpatine had to shed his mortal coil in order to possess Anakin; Han's execution played right into the Emperor's hands. Furthermore, pay close attention to Brand's words upon seizure of Sidious's spirit: "Palpatine will never return; all of the Jedi who came before us will see to that" or something to that effect, giving me the impression that thousands upon thousands of Jedi are currently having to keep Palpatine's essence pinned to the netherworld.

 

That probably would have been the best idea. But I copied the words straight from Microsoft Word, hence the lack of indentions, spaces, and italics.
It's too late to edit now.

 

Excellent points.

And remember, among those Jedi is Anakin "Chosen One" Skywalker... and I for one would be quite open to the idea that part of the Chosen One destiny/role is to be the key to holding Sidious/the Sithari in the netherworld.


And nice write up by the way.

 

Mucho gracias.

 

This is a very impressive essay. Quite long , but impressive. You make a very strong case.

I'm surprised you draw that conclusion. After all, Palpatine's "defeat" to Mace Windu is what ultimately won him the sympathy of Anakin and cause The Chosen One to turn to the Dark Side. Was this really a happy coincidence, rather than an intentional part of Palpatine's plan?

Later on in Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine declares, "Tell Captain Kagi to prepare my shuttle for immediate takeoff. I sense Lord Vader is in danger." Now, this is Palpatine on Coruscant, speaking--correctly--about Darth Vader on Mustafar, on the outer reaches of the galaxy. If he can sense that Anakin is in danger from that distance, surely he can sense Anakin's approach on Coruscant during his duel with Mace? And if he can sense Anakin's approach, well then, is it that much of a stretch to say that he threw the duel with Mace so as to win Anakin over to the Dark Side?

 

Edit: Thank you very much for your kind words.

This is something that I've discussed before and I'll provide my personal opinion --

When Palpatine revealed his Sith allegiance to Anakin, Skywalker told him point blank that he intended to turn the Chancellor in to the Jedi. So Palpatine was well aware that Jedi Masters would be on their way. In Mr. Stover's novelization, Palpatine could also sense their approach through the Force. In the movie, Skywalker, sequestered in the Council chambers, hears Palpatine's voice -- words that Palpatine did not say when he revealed his Sith heritage, leading me to conclude that this was a telepathic message (the junior novelization confirms this).

But neither the screenplay, the novelization, nor any other source suggests or implies that Sidious deliberately lost the duel to Windu (other than Darth Vader's own personal musings in Death Star). And my methodology prevents me from assuming facts not in evidence.

So, while it looks like Palpatine possessed the means and the knowledge to set Windu up, no source to my knowledge comes out and concludes it, meaning that we can't assume that it was the case.

 

This essay is great and was very entertaining but ignores the mistakes that lead to his downfall. Though, I suppose most of the Sith Lords make similar mistakes.

 

While my personal stance on what constitutes the "netherworld" is perhaps too abstract for it, I think that image of Anakin locking in a kind of eternal battle with Palpatine in the netherworld is a really cool image. Shame they don't still put out the Tales short stories, as I'd love to see even an Infinities short that showed that kind of fight.

Anyway, I don't have a lot to say about the main theme of the thread itself, not that hasn't already been said. I do like the phrase a "darkness beyond darkness" though; it's a nice way of describing Palpatine as an imbalance in the Force, beyond even the 'naturally occurring' dark side. I'll have to remember that in future when thinking about Palps, it's just got a nice ring to it.

 

On the Windu duel:

As Palpatine holds everything in his hand, controls all events, and decides himself to reveal his identity to Anakin Skywalker when the latter actually had no clue about Palpatine's Sith allegiance, it is really madness to assume it was coincidental that Mace Windu could overpower Palpatine in the very moment Anakin entered his office.
If that was no ruse, that Palpatine is outright stupid. The whole point in him confronting the Jedi personally was to make Anakin a Sith. If he had just wanted to kill the Jedi, Order 66 would have sufficed.

Palpatine actually made his conversion of Anakin Skywalker the very core of his success. He was totally able to execute Order 66 any time he wanted. He had the power.

But to convince Anakin he needed him to believe that the Jedi wanted him dead (knowing that Anakin could not let that happen). He needed to lose this battle. Anakin would have had no reason to join him or to That's the whole point of the lightning attack on Windu and the saying 'No, YOU WILL DIE'. And somehow Palpatine got Windu convinced to kill him after he showed him his true face.

About this whole dueling thing, I think, you can't separate swordsmanship from ability in the force, at least when it comes to lightsaber combat. Yoda, for example, is only very good at lightsaber combat because he can enhance his abilities by using the force.

And

 

Thanks!

As far as ignoring the mistakes that led to his downfall, this was not so much an analysis of Palpatine's character strengths and flaws but of his acquired power. (The forum for which this was written was more concerned with hypothetical fight scenarios.)

 

As I mentioned earlier, my personal belief is that the scene was originally intended to depict Palpatine playing Windu like a fiddle. The necessary ingredients are all there, but no source confirms it. And while we are all free to speculate, I can't very well write it off as fact, which is why my essay does not mention it as such.

 

I bet you didn't expect that the most push-back you'd get over your essay would be that it doesn't go far enough in terms of arguing for Palpatine's planning and lightsaber abilities.

I think the position you took in your essay is a logical one; if there's no source you can quote to support the point, then you don't make the point.

 

Well, the lightsaber abilities are covered to the best of my ability, but Palpatine's talents as a strategist were never intended to be covered in this essay. However, I appreciate all feedback.

That's what my research and debating methodology dictates. They are partially right: the scene is set up to make it look like Palpatine had all the necessary ingredients and forethought to set Windu up, but no source -- the novelization, the script, the comic book, the junior novelizations, Leland Chee or George Lucas -- comes out and confirms it. So I cannot treat it as though it were factual.

 

It could be argued that the novelization goes so far as to imply otherwise, based on its limited insight into Palpatine's emotion during that scene. It's still open to interpretation, however. Similarly, the screenplay is not quite definitive on the issue, even though it includes a scene ( not in the film ) which appears to show that Palpatine is really trying to destroy Mace.