Darth Caedus power level

In the LOTF series we get some conflicting accounts of Caedus's power level. He seems to put up a good fight against Luke in Inferno but he also is forced to sit in his meditation chair unable to move as Luke dresses him down, I believe in the same book. He struggles against Mara, yet whips both Katarn and Saba. How do you think Darth Caedus ranks against members of the NJO, is he right below Luke? How do you think he ranks against other Sith, is he in the top 5? Now I believe in one of the books he says he passed Vader who is 80% of Palps power with his suit on and 2 times as powerful potentially in the force without said suit. So what do you guys think is he a powerful Sith who happened to live in a time of powerful Jedi or is he a weak Sith?

RF: We don't really allow power levels threads, since they usually end up being unending arguments of one person's opinion of a character vs another's...

 

Here are his powers and abilities according to wookiepedia:

Jacen Solo had great Force potential, which his uncle was able to sense shortly after his birth.[21] Once trained, he was considered broadly gifted in the Force, skilled in numerous areas.[64] By the time he was an adult, Jacen Solo demonstrated tremendous power in the Force. Solo could exercise powerful mental influence through the Force, compelling even powerful Force-users to obey him against their actively resisting will.[81] He was able to dispel Force illusions, even those erected by Lumiya.[11] However, he was not as powerful as his uncle in a direct contest of strength. Even as a fully-trained Sith Lord, Darth Caedus could be overwhelmed by Luke Skywalker's power, unable to break his uncle's Force grip.[88]
He and Jaina were able to manifest their powers very early on, using telekinesis as two-year-olds to retrieve items from high shelves and make other mischief.[6] By the time he was five, he could use exceptionally tightly-focused telekinesis to move air molecules rapidly, heating them and creating a glow, and to slow water molecules enough to cause them to freeze.[29] However, he had great difficulty with levitating objects in the air and sustaining their motion.[30] This disability was quickly eliminated by his training, and by 26 ABY, Solo was able to launch a telekinetic whirlwind launching a barrage of debris at opponents.[42][64]

Even as a developing fetus in the womb, Jacen Solo was contacted by his mother through the Force, though he only expressed rudimentary sensations and emotions. After birth, he was able to respond to these Force messages through the bond he had with his mother. He had a bond with Jaina as well, which was especially strong on account of their twin heritage and time together in the womb and afterward.[1] From childhood, they were able to communicate with each other through the Force, rendering much conversation superfluous; they were also able to feel what the other felt.[6][29] After his return from his five-year journey, Solo used his control of the Force to limit the twin bond, preventing Jaina from sensing him through it except when he wanted her to, and limiting what she could sense from him even then.[17] During the First Battle of Dubrillion, Solo was able to link himself mentally with his siblings, sharing perceptions and thoughts through the Force in order to fight with superior coordination. The meld went beyond the heightened bonding he had sometimes employed with Jaina in combat situations, to the point where their minds seemed to work as one.[7] During the Myrkr mission, the strike team expanded on this concept, with Solo and his great empathic powers serving as the focus for a seventeen-Jedi battle meld. The battle meld worked in much the same way as the meld at Dubrillion, allowing the Jedi to share thoughts. Under Solo's control, they became nearly one mind, and he was at times liable to lose track of his own body, submerged in the thoughts of the others. Through the bond, he could shift the feelings of some Jedi to others, drawing the proper emotion from one Jedi to reinforce others.[67]

As a two-year-old, Jacen Solo was able to speak with animals through the Force, understanding their thoughts and making himself understood to them.[26] By the time he was five, he could direct the behavior of insects, and "make friends" of creatures, convincing them to do his bidding.[29] His empathy did not extend only to animals; Solo was skilled in detecting emotions and understanding what others were feeling.[34] He could use that connection in the other direction, influencing the minds of others. In addition to standard mind tricks, Solo could use the Force to project a sensation of dread to others, driving them away, and exert a powerful mind trick that would could compel even a talented Jedi. He was also able to fool the perceptions of fellow Jedi and project a false Force presence, even making himself feel like multiple individuals.[13]

Using his empathetic skills, Solo was able to form a bond with the slave see

 

During my recent reread of LOTF... I found him to suffer from being all hype, no substance. Luke punks him at every turn, and the only reason he manages to even get a fight against Luke is because Luke is pissed enough to want a brawl where both combatants walk out in casts ('Good. This was supposed to hurt', as Denning wrote Luke's thoughts during the Inferno battle)- seriously, you can try to argue that Luke only pinned Caedus because he was expecting it, but then in Revelation Caedus is expecting it and does try to counter. And he gets flat-out one-sidedly overpowered by Luke again. When Luke was just trying to bring him in alive and could have killed him then and there. A random redshirt Mando has him dead to rights and Caedus only survives because Boba Fett said so. And for all he does in Invincible, I could insert Darth Malgus, for example, in Caedus's scenes and he could have performed most of the same feats, power-level-wise, having just read Deceived.

And Malgus is not all-time top-tier Sith Lord material. Really powerful, but I'd say all three of Sidious' apprentices could waste the guy. How they say Caedus is stronger than Vader is beyond me. Heck, Vader could do just about everything Caedus did in Invincible and then some. Maybe not shatterpoint or flow-walking, but Vader doesn't NEED shatterpoint to bust unbreakable objects- he does it anyways. Death Star has Vader shatter a panel of aluminized densecris, an object said to be unbreakable by science- as a training exercise. He busts through a supposedly unbreachable Rebel fortress wall in The Will of Darth Vader, as I recall. As far as Caedus keeping on going, in Darth Vader and the Lost Command Vader eats things that would have taken out even Caedus- and keeps on going. Heck, in The Will of Darth Vader, Vader purposely detonates a Y-wing with a full load of proton bombs while he's at ground zero to take out a buttload of Rebels. And he's the only one who walks out of the understandably huge explosion that ensues.

Caedus would have died from that. The guy who they say is more powerful than Vader.

Jaina says he can deflect turbolasers? I seem to recall Vader doing that at least once, too. And an unconscious reactions of surprise in one of the Coruscant Nights books was enough to shake a Coruscant skyscraper 'to its foundations'. Which was Vader doing something without intending to. Which tells you the kind of raw power he can command if he actually intends to.

Really, I feel the whole 'Stronger than Vader!' was just marketing BS in the highest degree that just really is not supported in the text itself.

 

over 9000. sorry had to get that out my system.

Darth Ceadus was writers/marketing BS, The writers tried to use Jacen's pass deeds, as some badass justification. Then punked him at every turn, to boost up the heros/ pet characters.

In reality Jeadus was a weak antagonist, which was another nail in LOTF's coffin.

Read NJO and read LOTF, and anyone would agree, NJO Jacen couuld kick the but of LOTF Jadus.

 

I've read both. And I agree although I would rank Caedus pretty high and I would include Jacen's feats as part of my ranking. It sucks what the writers did to him! He was my favorite character!

 

As a comic book fan, when a character takes up a new roll,(Switch sides, becomes team leader, goes solo) the need new deeds to prove themslves in that position.

to me, It does not matter how badass you were as a hero or villian, team member, or solo. If you don't preform in your new roll the character fails in that roll.

Jacen Solo was a great hero, and a lousy villian.

 

Ok how would you sum it up though? I mean combine the characters and rate them.pls

 

I have fewer gripes regarding Jacen's lack of personal combat prowess than the overall narrative arc that had him as a rather unimpressive villain who never really managed to put true pressure on his opponents. He was always a relatively cerebral Jedi, part of the contrast with his sister, who was the physical one, even the various non-Jedi Force abilities he learned came mostly from groups that lacked the Jedi Order's militancy. Luke and others being able to beat him up is not really a big deal. The real problem is that he accomplished so little as a villain. The rise and fall of Darth Caedus is more or less the tale of a failed revolutionary uprising, one that took power briefly but then failed to sustain matters and left very little real legacy in terms of overall change to the system, and had never managed to deal any real body blows to the old order. There are historical parallels (I think Emperor Go-Daigo of Japan, who overthrew one shogunate but shortly ended up beholden to another roughly the same as the previous is a decent example), and the tale is not unrealistic, however, it is rather mundane and not suitably epic for a (insert loud announcer voice): 'Big Time Star Wars Villain.'

The proper epic villain puts the heroes on the ropes and hits them in the head a couple of times before the tables are ultimately turned and he takes the knockout punch right before the last bell. In Jacen's case, he dominated a few rounds, but then burned out early, lost momentum, and got gradually beat down and anticlimactically eliminated. The storyline lacked dramatic verve.

This is not entirely Jacen's fault, or that of the author's. Containing the rise and subsequent fall of a massive epic villain in a single storyline is difficult, especially when dealing with a political and military galaxy as large as that of Star Wars. LotF was written far too soon after the NJO had spent thousands of pages establishing just how darned hard it actually was to conquer the galaxy for Jacen to have a good go at it. Most great Star Wars villains (and villains in general) begin from a position of a priori dominance anyway, from Palpatine in the original trilogy, to Darth Malak, to Darth Bane, and so on. LotF would have been well served to improve Jacen's position by giving him a superweapon or two (he is almost unique among major Star Wars villains in not having one). Perhaps an earlier and much more widespread application of the Imperial nano-killer would have done the job.

 

He's a level forty-two.

 

I'd say he is level n-1 where n is the level of Luke Skywalker. This applies to any antagonist during Luke Skywalker's lifetime.

 

I'm going to be more generous to Darth Caedus.

I tend to think the majority of his problems come from the fact that Darth Caedus is completely eye-rolling, drooling, barking mad as opposed to being incompetant. I'm inclined to think of him as Joruus C'Boath's successor in many ways. Murdering a fellow Jedi Knight, murdering much of Kashyyk, murdering much of Fondor, and goodness knows how much else in the pursuit of his dream eats at his sanity throughout the series and it's only towards the end that he manages to get it back together enough that he can seriously challenge the Jedi Knights.

I'm inclined to think Jacen Solo had 80 to 100% of the Skywalker Matrix (to coin a new term) which is what we measure Anakin Skywalker as. As a result, he was able to own Kyle Katarn and a number of other Jedi Knights in a lightsaber duel despite the fact Kyle Katarn was able to annihilate Jerec (a Dark Jedi Master whose forces were collectively considered a rival to Darth Vader). I'm inclined to think in simple terms, Jacen Solo would have rolled over the vast majority of Jedi Knights in the order and it's a pity we didn't see him face down more during his time period.

The description put him at "stronger than Darth Vader" which is something I would take exception to but there's different means of measuring strength anyway. Remember, Jacen Solo isn't exactly a green Jedi Knight straight off of Yavin IV. He's a Jedi Master in his thirties and he was effectively raised into the Jedi Knighthood unlike Luke Skywalker, which gives him the same advantages that Anakin Skywalker did in terms of Jedi learning. He also got a chance to master a lot of other Force Using tradition's techniques.

I'm inclined to think that Jacen Solo was No. 2# in the New Jedi Order for power level and about 80% of Luke Skywalker's Force Potential, which is what I tend to put around Darth Vader's power level along with Dooku and Maul (George Lucas states they're somewhat of the same power level due to Vader's extensive injuries). I'd put him below Palpatine overall but I'd put Jacen Solo as probably far more powerful than the majority of Sith Lords out there. The problem is he didn't know how to use this power very effectively.

So I'd say that Darth Bane, Revan, and Vader would defeat Jacen Solo just like Luke had done by outsmarting him but he could overpower most other Jedi or Sith very easily.

 

Heresy!

 

11

 

I feel like most of Caedus's threat came not necessarily from how powerful he was (though obviously, as a Skywalker bloodliner, he's guaranteed to be pretty powerful), but also from how varied his education was. Honestly, I was extremely disappointed with how his fights went down, because it seemed like he ended up relying on pretty basic Jedi/Sith techniques most of the time, when I was expecting at least the second half of the series to showcase all of the abilities he would have learned that the Jedi just wouldn't know how to defend against, especially when it came to the Mara fight. I think Caedus was "on paper" more powerful than Vader, in that from all the things we had seen him do before he rose to become a Sith Lord (which presumably resulted in some kind of power increase), he should have been able to do more, but I also think he ended up just badly written, especially his fights, where he turns into this idiotic brawler more suited for an action movie than a scheming manipulator effortlessly controlling his environment.

 

Let's Go To The Outside Experts

 

Perfectly stated, Charlemagne19. THIS is by far the most accurate examination of Jacen Solo and his troubled mentality as Darth Ceadus and why his "power" seemed to decline though in reality it didn't.

 

Jacen Solo would have been by far the most powerful sith ever if he would have lived a while longer. He is still a top five force user ever.

 

Of course, in retrospect, it seems set up that Jacen Solo was doing the whole "Code Geass" thing.

(A anime reference for people who don't get it)

He possibly wanted to unite the galaxy against him and apparently all of his atrocities were meant to do so. It makes you think he may have thrown a number of those fights and he probably had a death wish.

Equally possible was by "becoming the Dark Lord" he was protecting Ben or Allana from becoming a Sith Lord in the future. In which case, he really couldn't have cared less about winning.

Either way, Caedus was never the most motivated of Sith. He lacked the drive of Anakin and Bane.

 

[image=http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/c/c8/HIS_POWER_LEVEL_IT%27S_OVER_NINE_THOUSAND.jpg]

I don't know. Johnny Yong Bosch has attracted a lot of haters who think he can only do one voice. We call these people tone deaf.

Entirely possible. For another anime reference more people might get, I actually played "Ode to Joy" when we got to Jaina and Caedus in Ineffable. But because of how quick and anticlimactic it was, it was more like...

Seid umschlungen, Millionen

*Jaina cuts off Jacen's head*

Equally possible was by "becoming the Dark Lord" he was protecting Ben or Allana from becoming a Sith Lord in the future. In which case, he really couldn't have cared less about winning.

What I don't get is how he was protecting Ben by making Ben his Sith apprentice. Fridge logic strikes again.

 

If we want to ascribe fan-fix to a obvious retcon, I'd go with:

A:] Caedus was off his nut by that point and sincerely a Sith Lord who wanted to win.

Or more likely,

B:] Caedus figured that torturing Ben and trying to kill his family (including KILLING HIS MOTHER) was the absolute best way to create a hideous aversion to anything Sithy.

B makes Caedus a great deal smarter than Caedus in the books, despite our getting into his head.

(Which we have to assume contained NO REFERENCE to his guiding overall plan - which is what the retcon means)