Hey guys! I made an account specifically to ask a question that's been bothering me for sometime. I'm halfway through the Darth Plagueis novel and (especially after watching Clone Wars and reading other pre-ROTS novels) you can't help but admire the intricacy and complexity of Sith planning. They overmatch the Jedi and the Senate by such an impressive margin that it seems everyone would be better off by just leaving the Sith rule. But I digress. To summarise, the novels point towards a very delicate plot that led to the instigation of the Naboo Crisis, the creation of the Clone Army and, ultimately, the Separatist movement. Why, then, does Darth Sidious dispatch Darth Maul to Naboo? What was the point in revealing themselves to the Jedi? How is that brilliant? Sidious wanted the Jedi to succeed in saving the queen.. because he ultimately became Supreme Chancellor because of the resolution of the Naboo conflict. At the end of the Phantom Menace, absolutely everything is exactly as Sidious/Plagueis have planned (minus the latter being dead, of course). Everything was right, except now Maul is dead as well (or kindof) and the Jedi know of the Sith. What was the point? I have 2 explanations, I like neither: 1. Darth Maul was a sacrificial pawn to alert the Jedi that the Sith are still active. To seed dissent, to scare the Jedi and to cloud their judgement. 2. This was a test for Darth Maul. Sidious wanted to know if, after killing Plagueis, he could use Maul further or if he needed a new apprentice. Does anyone have a decent explanation for this or is this just another gaping plothole that I should just ignore? Also, sorry if this is the wrong forum for such questions.
This is probably more appropriate for the PT section but you're fine, mods will take care of it ^_^ Anyway, Palpatine was already established as chancellor by the time he allowed Maul to reveal himself. There was no longer really any need for the signing of the treaty on Naboo, as his need for the plan to succeed was negated by his already having been elected. Your two explanations now... 1. His reveal was indeed most likely to surprised the Jedi into "oh crap.... the Sith are back", though Sidious did not intend for Maul to die. He was in fact surprised, according to the Plagueis novel (I believe, I haven't gotten around to reading it yet) 2. I don't think it was a test so much as using him for the above reason to throw the Jedi off their guard. If anything, he was testing the Jedi and their reactions, seeing how they would respond so he could go along with his machinations.
To get the Queen to sign the treaty? By destroying the Jedi, there's nobody else left (of relevance) to protect her. That's how it ended up playing out (because he took advantage of the unexpected), but Sidious didn't know the end of the movie (which is when he became Chancellor). You can't judge the characters based on the audience knowledge of how it plays out. Is it? Maybe according to the EU (which is not relevant anymore).
Technically not. As far as everyone knew, he was just a Force sensitive warrior trained to use the dark side. The fact that he was a Sith Lord was little more than speculation on Qui-Gon's part, and it seemed the council was rather skeptical of it. It's only after Qui-Gon's death that they except the Sith being back
I don't particularly get why Sidious thought that the circumstances involving the Trade Federation and the Queen were the appropriate ones for which to unleash Maul against the Jedi; especially after they took so much time crafting the Grand Plan, but my speculation is that it was targeted at scaring the Jedi into what they would end up doing following TPM. For one, they were very confused and unsure about their ability to use the Force. They felt like their power was diminishing. Two, their long-time enemy was the Sith. If they saw the Sith siding with the Federation and the Separatists, then they'd have more reason to believe the Separatists were bad. And then, there's the Clone Army. The Jedi would want to utilize the clones to fight against the droid armies and their Sith leader. Dooku's relevation that he has joined the dark side (and is quite possibly a Sith) would cement confusion amongst the Jedi and take them further down the path that would ultimately lead to their destruction. If you want to take it a step further, it also helped Palpatine in his framing of the Jedi for having commissioned Dooku to lead the Separatists and order the clones in order to brutalize the Republic in their eventual plan to take over. The masses would probably have thought that all of these lightsaber-wielding beings, including the one that was killed on Naboo all those years earlier, were all part of the Jedi plan to overthrow the Republic.
That comes from Lucas who said on the commentary that Maul's death wasn't planned and points out that he shouldn't have sent Maul to Naboo. Thus he has to find a replacement. As to sending Maul, he didn't foresee Padme using the Gungan army to help in the liberation of Naboo and with the two Jedi Knights involved, though he knows that they won't break their mandate, he didn't want them to leave their alive.
The ultimate goal was for the Jedi to be destroyed in the oncoming war, to do this he need them to commit to the war fully. And the Jedi are gonna care more about a Sith or Dark Side of the Force user being out there then any trade embargo.
I think this was probably one thing that Palpatine got wrong, He must have known that when Padme went back she must have had a plan and that she wasn't just going back to get captured and then be forced to sign the treaty. I personally don't think there was any reason to send Maul at all. Either way if she goes back and they some how manage to beat the TF and she doesn't sign the treaty Palpatine still comes of ok because in that situation the senate will still have more sympathy for Naboo having just had to win a war, and if she loses and signs the treaty he wins there as well. But those 2 outcomes can be achieved without the presence of Maul because Palpatine is in a win win situation. So the only reason I can think of that Palpatine send Maul was probably just to kill the Jedi so he'd have less Jedi to worry about himself. He was probably just arrogant in thinking that Maul was good enough to beat any Jedi he faced even a 2 on 1 encounter.
I think Palpatine had had enough of the Trade Federation tripping over his plans so he wanted his own man there to ensure that everything went smoothly.
I think it's because at that point, Palpatine believed that he would most likely be successful in taking over the spot as Supreme Chancellor. So it was time to reveal the Sith, to initiate the next stage inevitably leading up to "THE FIRST, GALACTIC, EMPIYAH!"
But why would the Sith want to reveal themselves at all?, Surely the longer they stayed in the shadows the better it would have been for them. I mean say for example, If Maul wouldn't have gone to Naboo and he pretty much did what Dooku did. He wouldn't have been discovered until Geonosis at the end of AOTC. Only then would the Jedi be aware of the return of the Sith. The only drawback is if Maul gets killed by Obi-Wan on the invisible hand, But Palpatine could easily release himself and kill Obi-Wan with lightning. After that at the end of the war Palpatine could start Order66 and could either get Maul (Depending) or himself to assault the Jedi Temple.
Palpatine wanted to rub their noses in the fact that they were back. Maul only got sent in the first place because Nute failed to keep Padme from leaving Naboo and failed to kill Obi-wan and Qui-gon. So he had little choice and wasn't going to enlist the help of a bounty hunter like Cad Bane.
To be honest, Darth Maul wouldn't have been nearly as useful to Sidious as Count Dooku was. Dooku was a diplomat and a statesman, perfect for setting up a Separatist movement. Maul would have been completely useless in this regard. I almost wonder whether Palpatine didn't actually want to be rid of Maul.
Interesting point. But even so Sidious could still have enlisted the help of Count Dooku even if he had Maul alive, I mean it's not like he gave much consideration to the rule of 2 as he was training Maul even when Plagueis was around. It's just from my personal standpoint I would rather remain elusive, attack them from the shadows. That way it's a safe bet to surviving because if they don't know the Sith exist they're not going to be looking for them. Maybe it was a bit of arrogance on Palpatine's part, he was after all very short tempered and certainly didn't tolerate failure, I could imagine him getting pissed off enough to turn round and say "right I'm going to sort this out myself". Having the chance to rub the Jedi up could've been a motive, but why after all that time and just when his plan was about to take shape. It just seems to me at least that it was bad timing on his part.
True, but also why bother revealing Maul to the Jedi when you're going to get rid of him? Just kill him yourself
"At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have our revenge." Sidious did not dispute that point at all. I think that about covers it. Reveal = revenge.
True. Hence the title of the film that came six years after TPM. Even so, that doesn't specifically address why Sidious thought the timing was right. We know about the circumstances in the film, and it's debatable whether or not the situation could've been resolved without direct Sith intervention, but I think the theories covered so far in the thread more or less sum up the reasoning.
You may have noticed that Palpatine rarely does things for himself. He gets others to do his bidding via coercion and manipulation. That way when he's in his Good Guy Senator persona, he can truthfully claim that his hands are clean.
Darth Maul: "Why must I do this?" Darth Sidious: "Because I halve foreseen it." Darth Maul: "Did you say halve?" Darth Sidious: "Did I? Slip of the tongue, nothing more. Go to Naboo, seek out and kill the Jedi. I will tolerate no half-measures!"
Maul revealed himself on Tattooine first and foremost. That is where Mauls line of at last we will reveal ourselves etc etc.... The Sith establish the trace with the Queen's ship via the transmission, then we see Sdious and Maul talking about Tatooine and Sidious orders Maul to act against the Jedi first. So it is Tatooine that the Sith realize they are revealing themselves first. Even if the Jedi Council are too arrogant to believe Qui Gon at first. The Sith had to reveal themselves out of a matter of necessity more so than a planned reveal at that point. There was no one else that Sdious could send to kill the Jedi and get The Queen back to Naboo to sign the treaty. That's the simplest answer.
I think Palpatine was going to use Nute as the diplomat, spokesperson for the Confederacy. In TCW, we see other leaders running certain plans when Dooku and Grievous weren't around. But then Nute's screw-ups and Maul's death wound up being advantageous. Dooku, as far as we know, only started to turn against the Jedi Order after the Battle of Naboo. During which point Qui-gon was dead and he was in a state of vulnerability that was ripe for the picking.
There's some hints that he was growing increasingly disilllusioned with them in the EU - the Battle of Naboo was the final stage. In Darth Plagueis, after it, he outright admits to Palpatine (who he does not know yet is The Sith) that he wants to find the Sith, and work with him to fix things.
