Darth Revan's mask is... Lord Mandalore's?

You know, one of the things in KotOR that is pretty much a mystery is Revan. In the few appearances that Darth Revan has throughout KotOR, he has an air of mystery around him. No witty banter when Bastila tells him that 'he cannot win', nor any explanation when Malak voices his complaints about the Star Forge. Amongst Revan's mysteries is that mask of his, and why he continues to wear it. A personal pet theory of mine was that it was some sort of custom from Revan's people or whatever. Granted, the best reason is the fact that the player would not be allowed to learn his true identity just yet when seeing his backstory.

... but that's not quite what I wish to discuss here. Awhile ago, I couldn't help but notice how Revan's mask seemed to be a bit inspired by the helmets that Palpatine's Royal Guards wear. Then I was later thinking how the helmets of the Royal Guards also seemed to resemble Lord Mandalore's mask in a way.

Then a little connection was made(duh )... Revan's mask seems to resemble that of Lord Mandalore. For those who are unaware of what Lord Mandalore's mask looks like, here's a picture from the Tales of the Jedi comic...

[image=http://kumba.drachentekh.net/pics/ehavatars/mandalore1.jpg]

In comparison, here is a picture from a masked Darth Revan...

[image=http://stud.hro.nl/0751443/Revan.jpg]

Granted, the masks don't completely fit. However, maybe the mask was changed a little when the new Lord Mandalore took the reigns, before beaten by Revan. Or a different intepretation on Bioware's part? Who knows?

In a way, this could fit IIRC, there's little that could work against it. Revan himself battled Lord Mandalore one-on-one and came out victorious. Perhaps he sees the mask as a personal prize, and kept it personally, making sure that the Mandalorians would never, *ever* rise as a grand, established army under one leader, thus resolving whatever problem they might cause when he would rise as the Sith. Perhaps he'd think that he could have the Mandalorians as his allies this way? Maybe he just thought it would look cool. Who knows? This is my theory, and I just might be sticking to it.

Any thoughts?

 

You know who Revan ends-up being, right? He's only mysterious until you find out who he is. EDIT: Oops, misread.

As for the topic, yeah, I think he did take it from Lord Mandalore.

 

Interesting that you say Palpatine's Royal Guards' masks look like Mandalore's, as the Imperial Sourcebook states that the Republic fashioned the design of the helmet on the helmets of the Mandalorian Death Watch.

 

Ancient Mandalorian armor/helmets (eg Mandalore) ---> Modern Mandalorian armor/helmets (eg Jango) ---> Clone Trooper armor/helmets ---> Stormtrooper and Royal Guard armor/helmets.

Royal Guard armor and helmets are descended from the Senate Guards as well, and I have no idea where those come from.

 

The Problem with this is that in the game a new MAndalore has already been mentioned. It's the one Revan sent HK against and lost. And Mandalore see the mask as ceremonial prize that makes one a Mandalore. Plus if I'm also correct Revan wore the mask when he was on Taris the time he met Juhani.

 

Yeah it probably is, and in fact until something says otherwise I'd say its pretty much a certainty. I mean look at it, it is pretty much the same.

As for another Mandalore running around after Revan killed the one during the Mandalorian Wars, there are actually a lot of 'wannabe' Mandalores running around, in fact if you read a datapad from one of the Mandalorians (on Kashyyyk IIRC) the Mandalorian refers to the leader of that little group as Mandalore. So all the little groups seem to have there own little Mandalores running around with them after the people were scattered and destroyed by Revan.

As for Revan having the mask on Taris when Juhani met him (before the defeat of the Mandalorians) well it never says that, sure something must of covered his face to mask his identity from Juhani so she doesn't recognise him later, but a hooded cloak can do that.

 

It would explain how Jango Fett is the last "true" Mandalorian while there's still a huge amount of pretenders running around to be fought by Jedi in the Clone Wars.

 

Hell, there are Mandalorian pretenders even as far into the timeline as the Rebellion era (Jodo Kast, Alfreda Goot).

 

The Mandalore on the Data PAd isn't a wanna be it's the true Mandalore. HE doesn't talk about the guy who leads them on Kashyyk. All the guy is was a Mandalorian commander, not Mandalore.

The one spoken of on Kashyyk and by HK is the one that leads the Mandalorians after the Mandalorian Wars. Not mention that HK went to Mandalore/MAndalorina space to take on the Mandalore. Everyone else had names, if the guy on Kashyyk was Mandalore it would have said so.

and the Mask doesn't look the same.

 

Nope. A datapad from a slain Mandalorian on Kashyyyk specifically says "I obey, Mandalore," after quietly protesting the cloak attacks are cowardly and pointless.

 

It is not the same mask...Mandolore has the T shaped visor...Revan just got a - shaped visor.

 

Thank you Excellence, but it doesn't prove once that the the commander is a Mandalore. Plus if he was his over head name would have said so. Though the group of Mandalorians on Kashyyk are Mandalore warriors loyal to Mandalore.

The rest on Unknown Planet,Dantooine, and any bounty hunter fall into the ranks who did not go back to the outer rim when Revan sent the Mandalorians back home.

 

Thank you Mike, but these guys will just say Revan painted it and changed the visor. No proof at all,but this is how the world turns.

 

Wow, Freakishly true.

 

The Mandalore Revan killed was a different Mandalore than in the comics. It could very well be the mask of the sucessor of Mandalore from TOTJ.

 

the mask is the ceremonial prize, which each Mandalore wears. From what the devs tell who made the game, it's just a sith mask, that's all. Not to mention that hte mask is.. oh why bother.

 

You say it could have been the mask of the other mandolore...Surely does a prince who becomes a king not get the same throne, crown and even sword? As his predecessor?

 

Different for a Mandalore though. Mandalore dies, new guy picks up mask and becomes Mandalore. And like I said since this is the case the Mask is still with the Mandalore in KOTOR.

 

---

As for another Mandalore running around after Revan killed the one during the Mandalorian Wars, there are actually a lot of 'wannabe' Mandalores running around, in fact if you read a datapad from one of the Mandalorians (on Kashyyyk IIRC) the Mandalorian refers to the leader of that little group as Mandalore. So all the little groups seem to have there own little Mandalores running around with them after the people were scattered and destroyed by Revan.[/b][hr][/blockquote]Going from the game's evidence, there was certainly at least *one* "Mandalore" running amuck, but what isn't locked in stone one way or another here is whether this is the proper successor to [b]Lord[/b] Mandalore, or if that datapad's concluding remarks were simply more of a "[i]Q'aplA![/i]" honorific bestowed upon *any* sub-unit kommandant.

Might be, but nothing's crystalline.

[b][blockquote][hr]As for Revan having the mask on Taris when Juhani met him (before the defeat of the Mandalorians) well it never says that, sure something must of covered his face to mask his identity from Juhani so she doesn't recognise him later, but a hooded cloak can do that.[/b][hr][/blockquote]Correct, that isn't made specifically clear during Juhani's accounts whether Revan had taken a shine to that particular attire by the time of the Taris liberation, or not. However, by my own estimates of the game's chronology, the flashback scene at the Dantooine ruins occurs fairly early in the war, which could still run proximate to Revan's initial rendezvousing with Juhani.

 

Going from the game's evidence, there was certainly at least *one* "Mandalore" running amuck, but what isn't locked in stone one way or another here is whether this is the proper successor to Lord Mandalore, or if that datapad's concluding remarks were simply more of a "Q'aplA!" honorific bestowed upon *any* sub-unit kommandant.

Might be, but nothing's crystalline.

Exactly what I'm getting at. There is no set in stone certainty of which case it is, thus this theory is still plausible. And I personally see the way it was written in game that they are most likely commanders of small groups taking the honorific title Mandalore, even though they're not the leader of the race. He was killed by Revan, he doesn't have a successor at the moment since the race was scattered.

Correct, that isn't made specifically clear during Juhani's accounts whether Revan had taken a shine to that particular attire by the time of the Taris liberation, or not. However, by my own estimates of the game's chronology, the flashback scene at the Dantooine ruins occurs fairly early in the war, which could still run proximate to Revan's initial rendezvousing with Juhani.

Very strong argument there I must admit, but there isn't anything stating where in the war that took place, whether it was just after the war of during.

Different for a Mandalore though. Mandalore dies, new guy picks up mask and becomes Mandalore. And like I said since this is the case the Mask is still with the Mandalore in KOTOR.

Umm just because this is the tradition BEFORE KOTOR in the TOTJ storyline why the heck does that mean its still happening, whats to stop Revan taking the mask instead and thus breaking the tradition. Sorry but I don't see how your logic works in this one.


This is just a speculative theory remember guys, and as far as I can tell it can neither be proven or disproven (although I must admit the case of the Dantooine flashback does strongly support that its not Mandalores)

 

---

Correct, that isn't made specifically clear during Juhani's accounts whether Revan had taken a shine to that particular attire by the time of the Taris liberation, or not. However, by my own estimates of the game's chronology, the flashback scene at the Dantooine ruins occurs fairly early in the war, which could still run proximate to Revan's initial rendezvousing with Juhani.[/i]

Very strong argument there I must admit, but there isn't anything stating where in the war that took place, whether it was just after the war of during.[/b][hr][/blockquote]In this particular case, though, it's fairly clear when viewed through the prism of the Malak and Revan dialogue in that scene that they'd stumblebummed onto something of reasonable consequence there as a very recent thing, and it's further established that Revan had jaunted off during the Mandalorian conflict to the various mapworlds in search of the missing Rakatan technology. If we assume that Revan followed the same basic initial discovery-pattern as the players -- [i]i.e.[/i], Taris's Undercity map as the first piece, followed by Dantooine's -- then one can postulate that the grove ruins scene occurred after the Taris expedition.

Of course, none of this sequencing is as yet fully locked down by LFL, but makes a rough sort of sense, given the context of events.

 

Actually I kinda always assumed Revan took the opposite way round to the player.... its obvious from the dialogue that they already knew about the Star Forge before the Dantooine Star Map, and I find it implies its the last of the star maps (with Malak saying we can't turn back from here) making it quite possible, even likely that the flashback was after Mandalore's defeat

 

True, it might have occurred after the final Lord Mandalore debacle -- they didn't strike out for Korriban itself until the year following the end of the wars (3,959 BSW4), where their final corruption occurred, but it wasn't specified as to whether this was their first visit or a subsequent one. From the dialogue there, they were clearly onto something, but from what I recall it's somewhat vague as to whether they'd fully twigged to the exigencies of the larger Builder legacy or not.

 

Hmmmm yes well it seemed to me that it implied that they knew about the Infinite Empire by that time and they had seen all the maps except Dantooine. But that was just my impression

Again, there's no proof either way, but I still think its a strong possibility that the mask is Mandalore's, it sounds so much like Revan to have taken it as a trophy. Its a nice theory.

 

Hmmmm yes well it seemed to me that it implied that they knew about the Infinite Empire by that time and they had seen all the maps except Dantooine. But that was just my impression

Mmmm, if I recall correctly, if you kill Darth Malak while Revan is on the Dark Side, he mentions something along the likes of that it was Revan who had found the first starmap on Dantooine after you've beaten him.