Darth Sidious. Over confident or just too sadistic?

Whilst the Great Darth Bane made a mockery of EVERYBODY who dared challenge him, and maybe even liked to carry an opponent within reason, he was not sadistic. He would kill innocent people but it was always for a good reason. He said that sadism was for fools.

Darth Sidious should have killed Yoda when he had the chance. I remember that he KOED him, but let him recover. He was just over come with sheer joy, and Yoda ended up getting away.

That was the way it was with Luke.

That fool should have listened to the Great Darth Bane. Watching ROTJ makes me angry now.

Yes, he was over confident, but sadistic is a better way to describe it.

 

He is neither "over confident" nor "too sadistic" until the final moments of the saga.

Before that, he is merely confident and sadistic.

At the end, he goes too far. The music is the big clue. In the PT, you never hear a full-bodied rendition of The Emperor's Theme, but in the final moments of ROTJ, just before Sidious goes for his second attack on Luke, the theme arcs up into a brass rendition. The Emperor has come full circle and fulfilled his purpose at this point. What he does next -- "And now, young Skywalker, you will die" -- is just pure malice. There are no further words from his lips. No rationalisations. And no theme. The Emperor has gone, consumed by his own dark side. All that remains *is* the Dark Side, which Anakin sees and finally overcomes.

 

The Dark Side would kill Luke within a second.

There is no way that Sidious was unleashing anything that would take his life at that point, but he wanted him too suffer.

Sidious was not the strongest, but he was strong enough to kill a padawan who had just been taught about the force.

And again, he should have killed Yoda when he had the chance. Yoda was nobody for Sidious to mess around with.

 

The Dark Side cannot kill anybody. It's people channelling their Dark Side that does all the damage.

Correct on both counts. But he was ultimately intending to destroy him.

Maybe. Maybe not. Luke was more than a "padawan" at that point.

If you say so. I think differently.

 

And again, he should have killed Yoda when he had the chance. Yoda was nobody for Sidious to mess around with.



But his dark side powers grow with the suffering. The more powerful the opponent, the more the power effect. He was "feeding" off of Yodas pain, and to a smaller extent, Lukes pain.

 

Feeding off pain is good, but this was not the place for it. He could have followed up by blasting Yoda as soon as he regained his senses. He could have lifted him into the air and lowly closed his air ways. Hell, he could have done just about anything. But no, he was OVERCOME by the joy.

As for Luke, he was a bug.

 

And who says that Yoda wasn't playing possum? Did you see the throw Yoda landed on Sideous when Sideous was about to unleash the lightning on him once more? It is actually quite likely that Yoda was playing possum just to catch Sideous off-guard...

As for Sideous simply killing Luke in a second. His intention was to kill Luke then and there - he had already made him suffer. more likely than not, his lightning simply wasn't that über-powerful as some wish to believe. He had to use quite a lot to kill Mace for instance...

But as for Sideous being a sadist and over confident: yes I think so.
"Too confident in the dark-side, you may be" - Yoda

 

He was not over confident because he still felt very much threatened by the Jedi. He struck as fast as he could through Anakin and Order 66. As for being too sadistic, no he wasn't. If you watch the movie too he did not let Yoda escape. He almost fell too and by the time he got his ish together Yoda was out.

 

This is not an either/ or question.

In the case of Yoda, he acted sadistically because he was overconfident.

In the case of Luke, he acted sadistically because he was not aware of another threat.

If you can enjoy yourself, and think you can get away with it, then you do it.

 

Sadism = enjoyment in causing pain (I don't think everyone's used the word properly in this thread).


Personally I don't think that Sidious shows much of a sadistic side in the Original Trilogy (he does somewhat in the Prequel Trilogy however).

When he's zapping Luke, he doesn't look so much happy to me as he does pissed. There is a slight smirk when he says "Now young Skywalker, you will die," but while zapping Luke he is bearing his teeth. I think the lightning was more Palpatine's retribution against Luke's insolence. He enjoys the fight between Luke and Vader, but again I don't think it stems from the maiming of others, I think he's just pleased that he's getting what he wants.

In ROTS however, we see Palpatine extremely pleased with himself after zapping Yoda, killing Mace, and telling Vader that Padme was dead. So yes, I do think he has a sadistic side, and it was reckless, though he still came out on top more often than not. His overconfidence in his abilities to maintain control of every situation was the greater contributor to his downfall rather than his sadism (which I don't think was exceptional) IMO.

 

When you are pissed with someone, it feels good to hurt them. That's sadism (one example).

You don't have to have a smile on your face to be enjoying yourself.

Think about when you are eating, or having sex, or watching sports, or playing sports, or watching a movie, or riding a roller coaster, or using your aggressive feelings (fighting). Are you smiling the entire time?

You don't have to be smiling to be enjoying yourself. People express enjoyment with a number of different expressions.

That being said, read my post above, which has the answer to the original question posted.

 

Either way, he only looks angry when blasting him w/ lightning, not when he gives his little "you will die" speech. He does actually smile and looks like he's relishing his pain. My guess on why he looks so ticked while he's firing the lightning is that it takes a lot of anger to channel the dark side into lightning. He always gets that look on his face when he's shooting it.

 

I don't know about sadistic, but he definately likes to gloat over his conquests. I think what we see as cruelty is really just him trying to lure people to the Dark Side, like when he has Luke watch the destruction of the Rebel Fleet. If Luke weren't on board, he probably would have just annhiliated them, but he knows what buttons to push in order to make them do what he wants.

 

Hell, he could have done just about anything. But no, he was OVERCOME by the joy.



Sadism probably produces something like a drug "high" in a Sith. Hes too high to do anything constructive at that moment.

 

Taken in that light, he isn't "too sadistic." No more so than the average person. Look at the Saddam hanging. A lot of people, eerily (it's one of those feelings that one doesn't want to admit but is there), are happy about it. They are happy that this person died. There's a natural tendency I think to enjoy the defeat (regardless of whether or not it results in death) of an enemy. In Sidious' case he wasn't "too sadistic" he was sadistic yes, but not overly so when compared to any non-Sith. Hell, Luke was really excited when he shot down his first Tie fighter. With the exception of possibly the Jedi who control their emotions, the destruction of an enemy is usually celebrated.

 

"A little bit from Column A, little bit from Column B."

In other words, couldn't he be both?

 

He thought Maul would live...

He thought he could beat Mace...

He thought Vader would "become more powerful" than himself and Yoda...

Sidious has always been over-confident. It goes hand in hand with being a Sith. They deal in absolutes - they believe they will get everything they want. They never do.

 

At last we meet again, Master Shaitan... and lo and behold I disgree.
Even when he was faced with adversity, Sidious would adapt and made the most out of each situation. Sidious got whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted it... because thats what Sith do.
He wanted to use the corrupt Trade Federation to his advantage. CHECK
He wanted to create sympathy in the Senate. CHECK
He wanted to become Chancellor. CHECK
(so what if Maul died, the Sith don't show mercy or know pity)

He wanted a Clone Army. CHECK
He wanted control of the Jedi Council. CHECK
He wanted Vader. CHECK (although he did get the condensed version)
He wanted to rule the GFFA. CHECK

 

SSS, when I left here I was but the learner...now I am the master!


Indeed - Sidious achieved a lot in the PT. At the end of the day he got what he wanted...almost.

I'm simply saying that the statement suggesting that Sidious was not over-confident in the PT is wrong. We see clear sign of his over-confidence as I listed above. Just look at the things he expected to happen in the PT. He didn't plan on losing Maul. And he certainly didnt believe Vader would get pawned. He was very over-confident here and it blew back in his face.

Sidious goal was to take over the galaxy, create an empire, destroy the Jedi Order and have the most powerful Sith ever by his side.

He achieved 2 out of four there.

Until next time my friend...