PT Darth Sidious vs. Yoda and Mace Windu

The Emperor's plan to divide and conquer the Jedi Order worked perfectly. Mace Windu dies, and Yoda can't defeat Darth Sidious.

What would have happened if Darth Sidious in either of his duels had to face both Mace Windu and Yoda at the same time? Could Sidious possibly win against both Jedi Masters at once?

 

Yes, and very easily. Sidious killed windu and 3 other Jedi masters at the same time. He kept windu alive for a while because he needed Anakin to turn to the darkside. If he didn't need Anakin to turn to the darkside, windu would have been one of the 1st of the 4 Jedi masters killed in that one fight. When Yoda fought Sidious 1v1, very early in the fight Sidious had knocked Yoda down with lightning. Yoda lay face down and defenceless, Sidious should have finished him off by killing him right there. Instead, Sidious decided to play with Yoda, like a cat does with a rat (Yoda = rat). Unfortunately, sometimes the rat escapes. All the evidence in the movies prove that windu and Yoda are no match for Sidious. If the duel did happen 2vs1 Yoda and windu vs Sidious, it would immediately become 1v1 when windu is destroyed before all 3 of them got their lightsabres out. Followed shortly by Yoda, that's if Sidious doesn't play around with him like a little rat

 

I never thought of how immediately Sidious knocks out Yoda. He could have killed him right then. So you're saying if Sidious was faced with what he considered a threat, he'd of struck with lethal force immediately.

 

Speculation.

 

Yoda, was somewhat a threat to Sidious. I guess Sidious wanted to humiliate Yoda and killing him quickly like he could have, wouldn't have brought the same satisfaction as watching him die slowly. Look at the Windu and his posse fight against Sidious. Sidious very quickly eliminates 3 Jedi masters because fighting 4 men there is a real chance one of them can get a lucky shot in, especially when it is close quarter combat as it was in Sidious' office. I guess Sidious also didn't expect Yoda to run away in what was at the time the ultimate fight between good and evil.

Speculation... Maybe. When ridiculously outnumbered in a fight (like Sidious was), and if windu was considered the most powerful of the 4 Jedi masters, it would make complete sense for Sidious to kill the strongest of the group first. Achieve that and the other 3 Jedi are mentally defeated before their physical demise. windu was lucky he was kept alive a bit longer, because windu was a pivotal pawn in Sidous' plans in turning Anakin to the darkside.

 

How does that make 'complete sense'? If he's the strongest in the group, he's the hardest to take down. It makes perfect sense to get rid of the weaker ones first so that he can focus on the strongest.

Sidious was lucky Anakin changed his mind otherwise he would have been killed right there and then.

 

There was no luck involved, and Sidious already knew Anakin was going to turn to the darkside. For years Sidious had been grooming him, Sidious was completely in touch with Anakins emotions and conflict, he just needed Anakin to commit one last act of evil to turn him to the darkside. It was not luck when Sidious conveniently loses his lightsabre out the window at the exact time Anakin is arriving on the scene.
Also, if you watch very, very closely the scene where Anakin stops windus attempted murder on Sidious., when windu raises both hands holding his lightsabre above his head, this gave Sidious an open target for him to kill windu with lightning. He didn't because he already knew Anakin had made his decision. If by some chance Anakin at the last split second decided not to interfere, Sidious was there with his hands in position to block windus attack with lightning. No matter what, windu was never going to kill Palptine.

 

Given that Sidious loses his lightsaber in fights against both Mace and Yoda, coupled with the fact that both Jedi can block his Force lightning I think it's fairly obvious that together they would have been far too much for the Dark Lord.

 

I think Yoda and Windu together definitely could've defeated Sidious. Seperately maybe not, it would be very close either way. He did beat Yoda however, but barely. Does the fight in TCW cartoon count? Yoda bested Sidious in that one i think lol. I think it would also come down to circumstance and other luck-based variables. It would certainly be a fight of the ages that's for sure lol. Imo Sidious needed Anakin, or Windu would've killed him. Sidious was drained at that point. You can't really compare Yoda, Mace Windu, or Sidious to any other Jedi at the time of RotS, they were in a league of their own, they were the three most powerful at that time imo. That whole scene where Mace and those 3 other Jedi confront Sidious was not done well on screen, the book version was way better. It describes how Sidious used the darkside to move with lightning-speed and became shadow-like, and was hard to hit or even see. I can't remember exactly, since i read the book 10 years ago, but i think Sidious even used the Force wildly throwing things in his office at them simultaneously making the situation even tougher and more chaotic for the Jedi. I think Sidious might have even had two lightsabers during his initial attack as well, but Windu knocked one out of his hands destroying it. Windu was also the only one of the 4 Jedi powerful and fast enough to be able to counter Sidous' initial lightning-quick shadow-like attack style. The other 3 Jedi were very clearly outmatched and got schooled quickly. I don't think any of them, including Windu, were expecting Palpatine to be that powerful and skilled. They were all taken by surprise in that regard, Mace eventually caught on but it was too late for the other 3. That's one scene i'd love to see Disney redo in special editions in the future. CGI the initial attack if necessary, it would look so much cooler if portrayed on the screen the same way it was in the book. It would really show just how powerful and skilled Sidious was and drive it home for the fans.

 

I think the jedi would have won. For me, Palpatine's power lied in his brains not his brawn.

 

Did he need Anakin? And was he actually drained? Sidious is such trickster it's hard to say.

Did Sidous need Darth Vader to protect him from Luke's lightsaber on the second Death Star? Isn't that the exact same scenario as what happens in the chancellor's office with Anakin and Mace Windu?

As for being drained. 30 seconds after saying he's to weak to keep fighting, Sidious unleashed his most powerful blast of force lightning yet, killing Mace Windu. Then he effortlessly stands up not winded or tired in the least, actually he is invigorated, and knights Anakin as Darth Vader before delivering order 66. It's as if the epic battle with Mace caused Sidious no physical exertion whatsoever. He's basking in his unlimited power. Is he pretending to be weak or is he faking being strong at the end?

Sidious literally throws the senate at Yoda later. It seems like he was holding back against Mace Windu.

 

If Yoda and Mace went up against Sidious, it still would've been a loss on the Jedi's side... it just probably would've lasted a little longer and been more intense. I truly believe only Anakin can destroy Sidious, and by lesser extent, the son of Skywalker.

As much as Mace made a solid effort, I truly believe Sidious knew Anakin was on his way and if he didn't seem like he was hanging onto life, surrendering, and about to be wrongly executed by Mace, Anakin would be less likely to join him and betray the Jedi. Sidious vs Yoda was mainly two equals trading blows, but neither of them would win with a lightsaber alone, and Sidious using the darkside of the force and relentlessly attacking gave him the slightest bit of an upper hand. Yoda would not defeat him, Windu would not defeat him, and sadly, them together could not defeat him either. The job is Anakin, and Anakin's alone.

 

Yet Palpatine defeated and killed windu and 3 other Jedi masters in the 1 battle. And he would have easily killed Yoda in combat if he finished Yoda off at the beginning of their fight. So Palpatine fights 5 jedi masters and wins, but still isn't considered for his fighting ability. It doesn't say much for the Jedi, does it???

 

You may have a point; but Luke isn't even close to Windu's power and skill in RotJ. Vader was conflicted and not even close to his best in his fight against Luke in RotJ. His heart wasn't in it, he couldn't bring himself to kill his son. He basically gave up and let Luke win that fight imo.

 

Windu attempted to murder Sidious?! I hardly see defending oneself as a "murder" attempt. Was Windu attempting to murder Sidious when Sidious suddenly ignited his lightsaber and flung himself at the Jedi in a crazed rage? No. Windu was trying to "arrest" Sidious and defended himself after the Dark Lord slew 3 of Windu's fellow Jedi Knights. I don't know if it is your intent to paint the Jedi as the bad guys but your words certainly imply it.

darthtimetraveller Windu was able to sense Sidious' shatterpoint which was his trust in Anakin. Maybe Windu should've just turned on Anakin and ended the whole Darth Vader plot

 

As Alexrd said, it's all speculation. Plus, he killed Windu because Anakin interfered with the fight. That's like saying a boxer was against the ropes getting pummeled with punches, the ref was about to call the fight then decided to just help the boxer out by sucker punching the attacking boxer.

EDIT** DOUBLE POST

 

The way i see it, Yoda, Windu, and Sidious were all probably around or about the same power/skill level, and anyone of those guys could've defeated the other on any given day depending on circumstance and situation. They were all too close in skill level and power to call a clear definite winner and say for sure who is the most powerful. That being said, if Windu and Yoda took on Sidious at the same time, they would've defeated him. I don't really see how anyone could argue that. I will say this though, i think both Windu and Yoda underestimated Sidious. Mace should've contacted Yoda and the entire Jedi council before confronting Sidious, and they should've taken steps to secure Anakin. Mace should've brought more Jedi with him as well as Yoda, then Sidious would've been done for sure. Hind-sight is always 20/20 lol. However, i think Sidious made a mistake in his initial attack on the Jedi that confronted him in his office. He should've went straight for Mace first, had he done that he might have been able to kill Windu in the confusion. The book did a better job of presenting that situation. Then again if Qui-Gon would have just contacted Anakin and explained things to him, the whole thing could've been avoided lol.

 

The beginning of the Sidious Yoda fight, Sidious knocks Yoda down with lightning. Yoda lies face down motionless for a few moments which gave Sidious a perfect chance to end Yoda with lightning right there. Sidious wanted to play with Yoda the same way a cat plays with a rat (Yoda) sometimes the rat escapes. Thankyou for bringing in Anakin into the mix... So the revised nitty gritty facts are... In the one battle Palpatine is confronted by 5 Jedi resulting in Palpatine defeating and killing 4 Jedi masters including windu and turning the CHOSEN ONE (prophesied to destroy the sith) to the darkside and apprentice. Then defeats Yoda, when that little green muppet turns yellow and runs away just like the previously mentioned rat. I KNOW, I KNOW, speculation am I right? I can't prove Yoda turned into a yellow muppet

 

Quite the imagination there

 

I agree Luke isn't as powerful as Mace Windu on the second Death Star. By same scenario I meant that the Emperor appears to be defenceless at the mercy of his attacker, when he may not be in any danger at all. And as events in both movies playout - the person attacking the Emperor is really the one who is defenceless. It's interesting that while Mace and Luke both strike at the Emperor, it's Anakin and Luke who are being deceived to think the Emperor is helpless.

 

Interesting observation. I never really looked at it like that before.

 

when is this crap going to stop?






This is not a well planned gamble, or a super crafted plan. Its to risky.

He lost. Vapad outperformed him.

 

It stopped more than a year ago.

 

Well I also thought at this.

After, I thought that at the end of the movie, Master Yoda and Master Obi Wan could have go to defeat the Emperor,together.
However, Master Yoda decides that he will face Emperor alone and Obi Wan needs to face Anakin,alone.
Mace Windu takes another 3 Jedi masters with him,to arrest Darth Sidious.
So, we are not sure that if the Jedi council would have found out earlier that Palpatine is Darth Sidious ,would have decided to send Mace Windu and Master Yoda after Darth Sidious.
Is normal that Darth Sidious could not have been able to defeat both Master Yoda and Master Mace Windu.

Darth Sidious kills so fast the Jedi Master Mace Windu brought with him by using surprise.
He is catching them off-guard and kills 2 of them instantly.

 

Darth Sidious would hold them for a time, but their excellent bladework and combined might in the Force would defeat him. Having Yoda and Obi-Wan off om Coruscant when Sidious made his move was essential. Darth Sidious may be extremely mighty, but he is defeatable.