Darth Traya's Holocron? Sith spirits in Holocrons curiousity

It occured to me, thinking about Sith spirits and Holocrons in general, that Darth Traya used a Holocron, dare I say her Holocron, in a curious manner.

If you kill Atris in Knights of the Old Republic 2, Traya talks to the Exile through her Holocron, directing the Exile onwards.

Is this in fact proof that Sith holograms truly do represent an element of a Siths spirit, or an anchor point?



Notably, this also adds credence to the viewpoint that Atris is the second Darth Traya; she may have recieved training from Darth Traya herself, through her holocron....

 

Considering Traya was aiming to defeat the True Sith, and was easily powerful enough herself to take over the Galaxy, considering she taught Nihilus and Sion, then I'd find it unlikely.

What it does, however, is make some interesting points on the fact that Sith spririts in Holocrons must work in some way other as holograms.

See, Sith spirits from Ossus Holocron, Darth Andeddu and Darth Krayt, and now Darth Traya.

Its to be seen if she left her spirit within the Holocron - which defeats the object of her death being the ultimate test of the Exile - or she

Then again, Darth Revans Holocron seemingly continued long after he himself turned to the Light....suggesting some distance from Holocron spirits and normal Sith spirits....

Perhaps because Darth Traya was alive she was still connected through hers?

But post-death the spirit there becomes separated, or trapped, one could argue, like Exar Kun's spirit was trapped on Yavin 4?

 

It seems, in that 'Indignites' scene, that Nihilus take the Force from her almost immediately, thus her struggling to levitate her lightsaber.

And versus Sion its quite arguable that she's not at full strength.

Full strength, she murders three Jedi Masters quicker than you can say "Palpatine"...

And Sion seems to have slipped back into the role of student when she's back to full Sithness almost immediately - he has to be scared.

 

*chuckles*

Well, as I've put you at a loss for words, I'm now content to be a sucker

Agreed, Ulicius. Though there's not any way to really tell.

kehlevandros;

Have to agree here, as Darth Bane's Holocron knew when it was about to die, and old Bane as much, before dying. A spiritual element isn't gonna withhold teachings, like Bane, Andeddu and Nihilus, nor is it going to tailor them, like Revan's.

Holocrons are evidentally more than information banks. Ditto Jedi Holocrons.

Actually, Cieran, that makes alot of sense to Traya's comment - "There must always be a Darth Traya" - she confers the title on Atris, seemingly in an effort to escape as much, but takes on the title and sacrifices her soul to the ideal of Darth Traya, thus

Sikon. Yeah.

Revenge. Stabilising the Known Galaxy. Destroying the True Sith. Creating a fake wound to threaten the Galaxy with.

I've played it as thoroughly as anyone, and I've threaded together the story.

Traya kills the Sith, kills the Jedi, all whom are dangerous and/or corrupt.
Traya strengthens a Force wound in the Exile and Malachor.
Zek tells us that the bond between two people dies when one goes to the Dark Side.
The Bond fades at the point where Traya goes back to the Dark Side - the objective was to make the Exile face Malachor V.
Traya tells the Exile to go take on the True Sith.

Where's your proof as to what Darth Traya wanted?

 

So, her ramblings about the True Sith, about an empire in the Dark, about the Mandalorians being tricked into attacking the Republic, and all theories to Revan conquering the Galaxy so he could turn on the True Sith are untrue?

Despite statements by G0-T0 and Canderous supporting it?

Despite her directing you to go and stop them after you defeat her?

Despite Revan deciding to leave Known Space on a jolly wander?

Despite canon supporting this, by way of facilities like Malachor V, Krayiss II, and a Killik Sith? You can't attribute everything to the Sith of Ziost and Korriban, as we know where they were.

*shrugs*

Ever wondered why her reasons for destroying the Force sounded so farfetched?

Ever wondered why Traya's death didn't wipe out the Force anyway?

Zek told us on Nar Shardaa that one member of the bond going Dark severed it, and thus Traya going back to her Sith roots really defeats the object of that. And if she was really bothered about wiping out the Galaxy, she would have done it the minute she got back to Malachor V.

*looks suitably put out*

 

Bringing conversation firmly back onto spirits....

As far as I remember, the view - which was from inside the Holocron - in that scene of KotoR 2, came from one Holocron. We didn't get some omniscient viewpoint.

I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure of that.

Are you suggesting that a Holocron, Jedimarine, rather than being an anchor like the Siths corpse/tomb/weapons is in fact a divided portion of the Sith's spirit?

That would make more sense, especially as with the Jedi Holocron in JAT Vodo returned to view his apprentices defeat. While this seems astonishing considering that Vodo had been dead for 4000 years prior, it isn't as spectacular when you combine it with the fact that his Holocron died only a few days earlier; his spirit could have been about from that fact.

And has Ulic's death scene been retconned as a Sith spirit moment? As he appears on Rhen Var during the Clone Wars, after all...

In relation to spirits near the edge, and crossing, or simply being trapped, that doesn't make sense to the Jedi Crystal that was on Korriban, the Golden Globe, or the Thought Bombs affects - if it was a threshold thing, the spirits could have escaped.

If its a container moment of a divided portion of your spirit - assumedly still linked to the original host, see Kreia - then the Sith Holocron we see in the Old Sith Wars would be a trap, rather than anything.

And as its based on Rakata technology, vise vie the mindbox we see in KotoR, the idea works very well. The Sith could have poured their spirits into a singular Holocron, and this is what is recovered by the Jedi librarians.

Adas' holocron being separate, and assumedly, Andeddu's. Though I postulate that Andeddu was active between the Great Hyperspace War and Freedon Nadd's rein, as whether or not Nadd's the Dark Lord of the Sith is still up for arguement, per conflicting views in the DSSB and NEC.....

Havet, I don't think the idea passes entirely, as Nichos Marr lost the Force when he did so, and Sith seem to have some affect over the real world - see Andeddu's Holocron there.

 

It manipulates Krayt's armour so that it appears to grow and cover him, turning Krayt into a Yuuzhan Vong monster - Krayt's fears - but it appears to have been a Force illusion, as when Krayt sends away the three Sith Lords, he's back to normal.

Krayt summoned them with some sort of ritual, seemingly. Lightning around him, and so forth. Not really a simple hologram, if ritual and use of the Force is required....