Darth Vader: "No, Obi Wan killed your father!"

These were the lines originally said when filming the scene, they were already planned to be changed by the time they were shot however what if that had been the actual line instead of the now famous line.

It wouldn't have been as shocking or awesome however it would have still been a neat twist in the SW franchise.

 

It would have been a lie. Anakin made poor choices and got what he deserved in the end.

 

It wouldn't have been a lie had Lucas decided to actually make it the line, and then written the story from there

Its an interesting thought, but I think the "I am your father" is much better.

 

This statement is true... from a certain point of view.

The statement that Darth Vader, "betrayed and murdered your father," is a lie... from a certain point of view.

Interesting how the Sith are "liars" and the Jedi are "philosophers"... from a certain point of view.

Now I'm going to take a giant dump... from a certain point of view.

 

Mark Hamill (in Empire Of Dreams) says that the spoken line was "Obi-Wan killed your father", but according to some accounts, the line spoken on set was, "Obi-Wan is your father". Other sources (Dave Prowse, I think) say that the dialogue was not related to Luke's parentage at all.

I'm inclined to take Mark Hamill's recollections with a grain of salt these days, or at least not treat them as 100% accurate. Yes, he was there at the time, but I think he has a tendency to exaggerate things in light of what came later, & confuse dates, times & details to suit the story.

 

I agree!

I wonder if GL had kept that,what he would have had to do to change the story lines from what we all know.Of course,had he done it,it still left the door open to some POV truth by the time ROTJ came out...he could have still been killed by obi in a point of view and was now another persona called Vader.I dont think GL planned anything,but the success of SW and its overwhelming fans,like us,he had to act fast and make some incredible changes.

Back to the subject,If Vader was telling a truth,I agree it would not have been as shocking.I remember James Earl Jones talking about how he had to voice over-dub the "I am your father" and busted out laughing saying at the time,that was a LIE,since Vader did kill Lukes father in the original story(maybe not the movie script) but in the original plots.

Even he wasnt privy to what Lucas was planning to change in ESB.Best thing Lucas ever did to change the story was to make Vader Lukes father,not another evil henchmen that Luke had to take revenge on.

I had a funny thought,ala Princess Bride...can you imagine Luke approaching Vader saying
"Hello,my name is Luke Skywalker...you killed my Father...prepare to die?"
And the sword fight begins!

 

I had a funny thought,ala Princess Bride...can you imagine Luke approaching Vader saying
"Hello,my name is Luke Skywalker...you killed my Father...prepare to die?"

Simultaneously hilarious and scary... wow.

 

but according to some accounts, the line spoken on set was, "Obi-Wan is your father".


Not that I'm doubting you, but that line makes absolutely no sense at all in the context of the scene, which is Vader trying to turn Luke. "Obi-Wan killed your father" works there, if it's "Obi-Wan is your father," then..what point is Vader trying to make here, if any? That Luke should hate him even more for killing his father retroactively?

 

Quite right, that doesn't make sense at all (unless Vader was simply trying to torment Luke even further), but it has been said that it was the line spoken on set (I think it was in 'Empire Building'). I'd be inclined to think Mark Hamill's account is correct, except that it wasn't revealed until Empire Of Dreams was made, & there's contradictory accounts.

It wasn't the 'real' line anyway, I'm just curious as to exactly what David Prowse was instructed to say - he was in the dark regarding the truth, but whatever he said must have seemed shocking enough to provoke an extreme reaction from Luke.

With a bit of luck, Rinzler's new book on ESB next year should clear up the confusion.

 

Ehh, idk. It that was the line, then I'm sure it would have seemed out of place to the people on set as well. I mean, if it seems odd to us 27 years later, surely would have been like ehhh? upon first hearing it or reading the script.

 

From a certain point of view this quote could have fit in. Obi-Wan killed the old Anikan on Mustafar. After the duel Anikan became Darth Vader.

"So what the original line told you was true from a certain point of view"

 

The story goes, according to Empire of Dreams, the line was "No Luke, Obi-wan killed your father". That,s what David Prowse said during the taping of the scene. Moments prior to that, Kerschner took Hamill aside and told him what the line was actually going to be when JEJ did the voice recording for Vader. At that point, none of the other actors knew, nor did the crew. When JEJ was shown his script he thought it meant Vader was being crafty, lying to Luke to further manipulate him, but JEJ was only given his lines for the movie.

Also, by the time GL actually got around to writing the final script for ANH, he knew Vader was Luke's father. He didn't have Leia as being Luke's sister. That happened when he wrote the script for ROTJ and, being tired of making SW films, he wrapped that loose end up hastily. GL has also said this in other interviews when asked about it over the years.

 

Since Empire of Dreams was on tv the other night I've been wondering how the rest of the dialogue in that scene was carried out pre dub.

Vader's trying to get Luke to come with him. The line, "come with me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son." wouldn't work anymore (and was obviously not the line that was originally said).

But if Obi-Wan did kill Luke's father, how would Vader use that to try and get Luke to go with him?

 

It's simple.


Revenge of the Jedi.


Presumably Vader's plan if this line had been in the film would have been to turn Luke against his Jedi mentors; obviously, with ROTS, he knew that Yoda was still unaccounted for.

Heh, the tragedy in ROTS would have nothing on a final episode with that as the central storyline. Luke killing Yoda, turning on the Rebellion and killing Han, Leia, and Chewie, and then ruling at his father's right side in a Sith Empire where the dark would truly have finally triumphed forever.

 

Um, actually the Revenge of the Jedi was the title because this movie was about Luke, the Jedi, defeating the Emperor and Vader, the Sith, thus getting revenge for killing all the other Jedi's.

GL changed it because he didnt think revenge was very Jedi like.

 

"The film was originally named Revenge of the Jedi until it was pointed out that a Jedi taking revenge is contrary to the strict Jedi Code, though many speculate that George Lucas had planned to call the film Return of the Jedi all along, and only used "Revenge" as a means to throw off merchandise counterfeiters." (click here)

 

I don't know why you're bringing this up, because that's not the point I was getting at in using that title. Hence the wink.

 

The now published notes from that period - including well after that period - say otherwise.

 

And according to GL on the directors commentary of the PT he always knew Vader was the daddy. I dont really want to argue this though as there are notes and quotes to support both sides.

 

In a way, Obi-wan did kill Luke's father when he left him to be barbecued on Mustafar. If this line had been left in the film, it would've been the perfect way for Vader to turn Luke against his Jedi mentors and join the Dark Side.

 

That also makes you wonder, and sorry if this has been discussed before--how long before Obi-Wan realized that Anakin wasn't dead and was, in fact, that shiny new guy in the big black suit at Palpatine's right hand?

 

GL Changed the line after I threatened to punch him. That is a fact.

 

Vader: "No, Obi-Wan killed your father!"

Luke would probably think to himself "Why did Ben lie to me about this?"

There would probably be anger and confusion on Luke's part, but that would do nothing to get him to join Vader. Besides, if Vader actually used that line, it would mean he himself couldn't be Luke's father. How can he talk of Obi-Wan killing Luke's father when he IS Luke's father? Since Lucas claims Vader was always going to be Luke's pop (debatable), that line could never have been seriously considered.

 

About a month, according to Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader.

 

It was several months.