Dating Systems

First question: what is the standard year zero? There was an article in HNN about it, saying that the debate was between the Ruusan Reformation and the Great Resynchronization, but it doesn't say which one wins out. There's also the dating used in the databases Luke searches in the Thrawn Trilogy, using the formation of the Empire as its zero point, although the dating was obviously a bit off with the release of the prequels. Then there's the Battle of Alderaan notation that most things seem to use, which makes sense from a marketing standpoint (to use in book cover timelines and whatnot) but is stupid from an in-universe standpoint.

I prefer the Great Resynchronization myself, since it makes the most sense. Is there any official word on what is used?

Second: how many months are in a year, and how many days days are in a week, month, and year? Are the months named? What are some important holidays? And how are dates written? Would it be "'Month 4' 8 13 PRS," for the date of the battle of Geonosis, for example, or would it be more like "13:4:8"? Would pre-zero years be negative numbers?

Just curious... I'm vaguely contemplating doing my own timeline this summer, and I'd like a good in-universe dating system to go with it. I do remember there being some details in the appenixes to Timetales, but for some reason I can't open any copy of it without crashing Word.

EDIT: Also, are there any sources that give detailed dates for anything? Not just the year, but also the month and day? I know that the months of everything is known for the Clone Wars, but what about everything else?

And, while I'm at it... what's up with this millenial war thing? There's been a big war every thousand years on the dot apparently since 5000 BBY (-4964 using the GreatResynch date), except for 3000 BBY. Doesn't that seem a little unlikely? Why can't they set stories at, like, 2,489 years before Yavin, rather than going for thousand-years-on-the-dot increments?

 

There's something like 10 months in a year and 360 days in a year, IIRC. Which is really stupid since, considering that Star Wars is entirely fictional, we could just use the system with 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week, 12 months in a year, ~52 weeks in a year, ~365 days in a year.

And I don't think that there's any official starting point for an "in-universe" dating system. Most official sources I've seen use the Battle of Yavin as a starting point.

The millennial war is just LFL/authors being lazy.

 

So... no one else had any input on this?

 

Their dating system also forces authors to say 5 "standard" minutes each time.

But they never say standard for water volume, or distance measurement.

It's an oversight no one has noticed, isn't it? A lot of sci fi books do this as well: changing their universe's calendar, and you'll notice it has no impact on the book at all. You just read it as usual.

I honestly don't know why you have to say standard each time. You don't tell your mum you'll back from the shop in 5 standard minutes, it's not proper everyday talk . . .

Since the dating year would be over 25,000, I imagine, based on what other books have done, is just say the last three digits.

 

I'll admit it gets kind of annoying when authors overuse 'standard', but to answer your question, you never see 'standard liters' or the such because a liter is the same everywhere, since it's a measurement of volume. Minutes, hours, days, months, years, etc, however, are all measurements of time, which is based off of a planet's rotational and revolutionary speed, so those chance from system to system and planet to planet.

 

I prefer the Great Resynchronization myself, since it makes the most sense. Is there any official word on what is used?

I wrote a bit on this for the SW wiki.

Basically, the way I see it, different government systems use different datings.

Early Republic: From first founding (ie, 25,000 years BBY)

Late Republic: From Ruusan Reformation (ie 1,000 BBY)

Empire: From Great Resynchronisation

New Republic: From Battle of Yavin

 

QuentinGeorge: Yeah, I saw that one... I actually edited it a bit in the all-Star Wars wiki, just to put it from an in-universe perspective. Hope you don't mind.

What you say makes alot of sense-- I can see the pre-Ruusan Republic using the founding date as their zero year. What I don't like, though, is the rebels using Yavin as a zero year. It just doesn't make any sense that they would overhaul the dating system for something so trivial-- although, given their rabid hatred of the Empire, I suppose it could have happened. Just look at the French Revolution.

You'd think that they'd use Endor Day as their marker, though, since that makes a bit more sense... although these are the rebels we're talking about.

Personally, though, I still think the BBY/ABY system is best interpreted as an out-of-universe system that works well for marketing purposes.

 

Gladiuus: I tried to start a thread on this here a while back. There?s also another thread here?

The Great ReSynchronization was, I think, introduced by the StarWars.com HoloNet News subsite to explain dates in WEG/SWAJ material: apparently, ANH falls in 35, while ESB sits in 37 ? which, you?ll observe, doesn?t quite seem to work.

More of this below?

The YEAR

The standard year in Star Wars was established by WEG as 368 days long: the standard day is, oddly, identical to that of planet Earth, although the year is made up of ten 35-day months, each containing seven five-day weeks. Three five-day Fete Weeks and three extra holidays round out the year. Confusingly, ?Jocasta Nu? at StarWars.com has said that all this is based on the Coruscant year, even though the day is apparently identical to that of Earth.

If this is simply the Coruscant year, the coincidence of the length of the day is just bizarre ? could Coruscant have been chosen, or her orbit adjusted, for conformity to the calendar?

Other planets obviously have different calendars:

A Tatooine year has 304 23-hour days
A Kashyyyk year has 381 26-hour days

How likely is it that these are exactly 23 and 26 hours long?

Well?

The Rakata are supposed to have radically changed the climate on both Tatooine and Kashyyyk, and Coruscant is the traditional galactic capital ? if you?re looking for a retconn, you could argue that the orbits of all three planets were adjusted by them.

However, the fact that the hour and the Coruscant day are identical to those of Earth suggests that the Rakata were the grandiose liars that KotOR II claims, and the Star Forge, the standard calendar, and the cosmic retuning that these hour-accurate orbits imply were all the work of humans ? or, most likely, a single human despot with a megalomaniacal desire for regularity and order.

Purely hypothetically, it could be suggested that the galactic year is based off the old Earth calendar, originally restructured to ten months, three fete weeks, and one four-yearly holiday, and then modified by the addition of extra holidays after the need to keep it aligned astronomically was lost ? or perhaps to align it to an orbit-adjusted Coruscant with an Earth-length day.

If it seems odd to reorganize the year like that, compare the French revolutionary calendar, which began at the autumn equinox, contained twelve thirty-day months, each divided into three ten-day weeks, or décades, and added five extra days at the end, the sans-culottides (six in leap-years): this was introduced by legislation in October 1793, but 1 Vendémiare, Year 1 was 22nd September 1792.

Alternatively, the Coruscant day could just be a coincidence, and the Tatooine and Kashyyyk ones could be approximate?

Anyway?

The CALENDAR

It?s not known whether the months and days have standardized names ? the only known names are the local ones in the Tapani Sector, where a local calendar has been harmonized with the standard one. Extrapolating from the Tapani calendar, however, the standard year is structured thus:

Winter Fete Week

Month 1
Month 2
Holiday
Month 3

Fete Week

Month 4
Month 5
Holiday
Month 6

Fete Week

Month 7
Month 8
Holiday
Month 9
Month 10

This dating is expressed in some WEG material as YY:MMD ? beginning with the Great ReSynchronization on 00:F1:1, the events of ANH took place between 35:3:5 and 35:3:7.

I always thought this was supposed to synchronize somehow with 25th May, the release date of the movie but I can?t see how that works ? we?d actually expect the day to be 4:30 or 4:35, depending on how we treat Fete Week?

Just to be even more confusing, the ?Pre-Empire Date? dates given by Zahn are expressed as MM:YY or MMD:YY, and these years have at least eleven months. They also

 

I am confused more than I was with the continuity problems.. but, it makes sense, hell I didn´t even understand it completely but it seems to work.. you are a genius, McEwock!

Though, who now rewrites the timetales and gives each calendars dating to every source?

well.. McEwock.. you earned yourself a carbonite-encased Platinum-Ewok! *applauds*

EDIT: Another thing your theory fixes pretty well without you even realizing:

If the years are shorter, f.e. Imperial years, then it explains why our characters look still young and sexy though already in their fourties and fifthties. so.. how old are they really in the movies, novels, etc.? is Jaina 16 standart years in Vector Prime or earth years?
another thing, fans always wondered why and how star wars humans can live up to 150-200 years of age and forceusers even longer. the years are shorter so they get older.

 

McEwok wrote some excellent stuff, but here's a shorter overview of the various calendars, from a more out-of-universe perspective:

Calendar #1: Republic calendar
Uses 25,000 BBY as its zero point, to correspond with the establishment of the Republic. Honestly, I've never actually seen this calendar being used in SW literature, but it seems logical that this would have existed at some point.

Calendar #2: Ruusan Reformations
Uses 1,000 BBY as its zero point, which helps explain the references in the prequels to the Republic existing for "a thousand years" (as opposed to 25,000 years). This calendar originated in HoloNet News (but isn't actually used by HoloNet News...see below).

Calendar #3: Great Re-Synchronization
Uses 35 BBY as its zero point. This is the in-universe dating system used by HoloNet News (and before that, West End Games' Galaxywide NewsNets). I think Zahn's Pre-Empire dates correspond to this, but it's been a while. This date originated with an old timeline in the 2nd edition of the Guide to the Star Wars Universe that placed the end of the Clone Wars at 35 BBY. Since that date is no longer valid, HoloNet News retconned it into the "Great Re-Synchronization."

Calendar #4: Battle of Yavin
Uses 0 BBY (i.e. Star Wars: A New Hope) as its zero point. This is the most widely-used timeline since it's easy to grasp. It is also apparently used in-universe, if the Essential Chronology is any guide.


There are really only two timelines being used: #3 (which I'll call the Fanboy Timeline) and #4. #3 is almost like a secret code and will continue to be used in fannish sources like HoloNet News, but the smart money is on #4, since that's the one that everyone (particularly SW authors and licensees) will gravitate toward.

Dan

 

Almost forgot: there are two distinct "year" calendars:

Year Calendar #1: 10-month year
This was introduced by West End Games, apparently in an effort to make SW seem more "spacey." It causes lots of problems in figuring out where to place events separated by months, since Lucasfilm doesn't really use it, and new authors generally have no idea it was ever introduced.

Year Calendar #1: 12-month year
This is exactly like our calendar here on earth. The smart money is on this calendar, because it allows LFL to place events without having to calculate the result.

Dan

 

DELETED, you were faster than I could ask Dan! thx

 

As you can see from all the above, dating can be very complex, even when a (more or less) standard year is involved?

once you've been dating for a few standard years, it gets easier...

 

The Great ReSynchronization rules!!!!!!

 

Okay, now that I have put my little girls to bed, I can elaborate on my short reply: I myself prefer the Great ReSynchronization because it is the first 'official' data system I have come across (which is used on Coruscant). And since I have always loved the old WEG Galaxywide NewsNets system, I was greatly surprised to see the HNN using the same system (giving weather forecasts for 5 days, implying that a standard week consists of 5 days). Another great advantage of the Great ReSynchronization is that it places the 'major' events (i.e. the Battle of Yavin) at dates which are irregular, and not so common-sounding. That's why I use this system (combined with WEG's 10-month system, 35 days a month) for my timeline.

And, as stated before, this places the movies at Years 3, 13, 16, 35, 38 and 39...

For my website, I have 'changed' the 10-month system so that its 368 are brought back to 365 to comply with our Earth calendar (making the transition-calculations more easy).

 

<< Their dating system also forces authors to say 5 "standard" minutes each time. >>

Er...I wasn't forced to, and I hardly used it at all. Take another look through Hard Contact. There were a couple of places it appeared, I think, but it was rare.

 

when I was an early fan before I surfed on the web, I always had my own timeline. I used ROTJ as the starting point, because it was the end of star wars. Also, I never use BBY, I always say #ybsw6 or #yasw6. But, now I have switched to the more common ANH starting point, but I still do it my way. #ybsw4 or #yasw4.

 

thousands of races.. just as many senators vying for their own dating and calendar system. and a new system of dating on every major governmental change. its amazing most people even know what DAY it is in the SW universe.

"Its Palpday" .. " No.. its Vaderday." " No.. its..." blaaah blaaahhh.. blaahh

 

now we got another example that it is fact: STAR WARS IS TIMELESS!

another day is another day to live, that´s it

 

Yes, Karen, I know. It's what made Hard Contact a good read: it read as something natural.

I was thinking more of Dark Rendezvous, where nobody would say any time measurement without the word standard in it. It was very stiff and unnatural. I really don't know why it's done. The fictious people of that galaxy know general galactic time is set to Coruscant's. Saying it repeatedly, and not for other measurements (like volume, weight or distance), reads conspicuously.

Why not say "that person is 5 standard kilometres away" too?

 

But they never say standard for water volume, or distance measurement.

I think last time you brought this up, I gave you the answer that I understood to be true, but I'll repeat myself.

Units of time, because they vary from planet-to-planet, have to be referred to as standard (though when they don't, it makes "Noghri years" retcons a lot easier). A liter's a liter no matter what planet you're on, and the same is true for kilometers, but days/weeks/years/etc. vary from planet to planet.

 

CH: well.. McEwock.. you earned yourself a carbonite-encased Platinum-Ewok! *applauds*

Thank you!

If the years are shorter, f.e. Imperial years, then it explains why our characters look still young and sexy though already in their fourties and fifthties. so.. how old are they really in the movies, novels, etc.? is Jaina 16 standart years in Vector Prime or earth years?
another thing, fans always wondered why and how star wars humans can live up to 150-200 years of age and forceusers even longer. the years are shorter so they get older.

I think longer lifespans are still a more likely explanation - unfortunately, because the NR's Yavin-based calendar still uses the 368-day year, the "Imperial year" idea doesn't really 'fix' actual ages much... it does allow us to manoeuvre some events to conform better to the timing implied by established ages, but Jag, perhaps Pellaeon and possibly Kenobi are the only people I can think of whose actual ages can be read in 'short-year' tems...

DanWallace: McEwok wrote some excellent stuff...

Shush! Don't encourage me!

Out of interest, is there any 'in-house' way of handling the places where the continuity doesn't quite seem to add up at present? Or do you just put it down to typos and experience, and go grab a bagel?

jawajames: once you've been dating for a few standard years, it gets easier...



- The Imperial Ewok

 

Thanks for the incredibly informative post, McEwok. I'm gonna post more on it when I have a bit more time, but that's exactly what I was looking for. I think I'll resurrect your 'Matter of Months' thread, too, once I get a chance to read through it. Some good stuff in there...

Dan, thanks for the clarification! It's always great to about stuff straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I think for my personal timelines I'll stick with the twelve month system since, like you said, its easier. I still prefer the Great Resynchronization as a zero year, mostly because it seems more official, I don't see why the rebels would restructure the dating system, especially with Yavin as the zero year, and, well... I don't much care for the rebels anyway.

I wonder if the New Essential Chronology will use the Great Resynch as a zero year, and maybe nail down important events by the month and day. Hint, hint... although by now it's probably a little late for that. I look foreward to it whatever happens, even though it means me buying my first SW book in years. Can't pass this one up though...

Quick question, though-- wouldn't the year of Yavin be 36, using the Great Resynch? Since it's 13 years to Geonosis, 3 years to Coruscant, and then 20 years to Yavin? I must be missing something, since I'm the only one who thinks this...

 

eddie1969: I meant to say earlier, your site was a help with my thoughts above - thanks!

Also, can you tell me - is ESB placed in 37 or 38 in the original WEG material? Curtis Saxton's site says '37' in passing, but 38 would be a touch easier for several reasons...

Gladiuus: Quick question, though-- wouldn't the year of Yavin be 36, using the Great Resynch? Since it's 13 years to Geonosis, 3 years to Coruscant, and then 20 years to Yavin? I must be missing something, since I'm the only one who thinks this...

Well, it seems to work, actually - that HNN entry is 13:2 by the GReSy calendar, and if we align 13:F1 GReSy with -22:F1 on the NR calendar, and count forward, we find that the NR's Year Zero is year 35 of the 'Great ReSynchronization;...

13 = -22
...
33 = - 2
34 = -1
35 = 0, or 1, or whatever...

So, that works, at least...

But we're still left with all the other flubs and misalignments... a little more work last night suggests that they could all be resolved by an Imperial calendar with a year precisely 2/3 the length of the NR year (245 days plus an extra day every three years), and eight-year 'decades' (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10...)

EDIT: while I'm throwing out retconns, I just noticed that you could explain the '55 BSW4' date for Anakin Skywalker's birth in the Slavicsek GttSWU as a mistake based on the Tatoiine year of 304 days of (approximately?) 23 hours each...

It would require a little fiddling with the length of the Tatooine hour, Anakin's precise age in TPM and ANH, and/or exactly how the age of '55' was arrived at... but I think you could make it work...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

You're welcome

And the Official Star Wars Adventure Journal # 14, August 1997, states in its Galaxywide NewsNets on page 285 - 287 that

"In a stunning announcement, Imperial Advisor Alec Pradeux releases information about a massive victory against a Rebel Alliance stronghold in the Outer Rim Territories. Pradeux mentions that after several months of meticulous searching, Lord Darth Vader?s Death Squadron discovered and annihilated a key Rebel fortress on an ice planet called Hoth. He states that this is indeed a great triumph for the Emperor in restoring order to a galaxy ravaged by the terrorist Rebellion. Pradeux continues to outline the major points of the battle: after discovering the base, the Death Squadron jumped to Hoth. As soon as the fleet emerged from hyperspace, the Rebels raised a protective shield around their citadel, preventing the squadron?s Star Destroyers, including the new Super-class Star Destroyer Executor, from bombarding the planet with turbolaser fire and TIE bomber concussion missiles. A detachment of AT-ATs and Imperial snowtroopers was deployed to Hoth?s surface to enter the Rebel-held territory beneath the edges of the planetary shield. General Veers, who had been serving in the Imperial garrison on Corellia before transfer to Lord Vader?s flagship as commander of ground forces, personally led the desperate AT-AT charge directly at the main Alliance stronghold. His determination and tactical skills helped deal a crushing blow against enemy forces. Veers?s AT-AT units managed to withstand continued assault from well-armed Rebel airspeeders, powerful gunnery installations and columns of elite Alliance troops. Ater destroying the shield generator, Veers led his snowtroopers through the Rebel fortress, eradicating any resistance and gathering vital intelligence about Alliance activities throughout the region"

This entry was dated 38:6:9 which implies that TESB actually takes place in year 38 of the Great ReSynchronization... And I have always been under the impression that TESB takes place 3 years after ANH which would place it automatically in Year 38 Where Curtis Saxton gets his 37 from, I do not know...

p.s. I liked your 'essay'!!