DEBATE: Does Vader still think of Padme, or has he let her go

Someone suggested from my poll that this would make an interesting topic for debate. So let's debate.

Though Lucas doesn't address the issue in the Classic Trilogy one has to ask. Does Vader still think about Padme, or has he let her go?

While Lucas can easily insert a scene or two highlighting the fact that Vader still misses Padme right now there is nothing there.

Having seen the prequel trilogy I have to believe that Vader, though twisted and evil, still misses Padme. You NEVER forget your first love. Not only was she his first love, but she was his wife and soon the be the mother of his children. You can't let that go.

Anakin has a serious problem with separation. His problem is SO serious that he turns his back on the Jedi Order just to find a way to save his wife from dying.

Someone with such an obsessive personality would find it extremely difficult to just block out his first love especially after he had been told that he kills her.

I don't care if it is 10 years, 20 years or 50 years, he will still think of Padme. She is what made Anakin into Vader. I bet he can only wonder what it would have been like if she were still alive.

Vader has become a lonely man trapped in a life support suit. He has no one else but the Emperor and that really isn't a warm relationship. I can't help but think that, during those lonely cold nights in his meditation chamber, that he would have to think about Padme, or pull out a hologram of her.

What's to say that Vader, one year shortly after ROTS, went back to Naboo with the Imperial forces, went to Padme's parents' house, and took one of those holographic pictures that she showed him (see deleted scenes AOTC). Being the #2 man in the Empire he could get away with it easily.

Imagine if he hid that picture within his suit only to pull it out whenever he pleased, or kept it locked away from prying eyes.

That really makes Vader tragic in more ways than the obvious. I say...without a doubt...that Vader still thinks about Padme. He is missing a large space in his heart that only she could fill, and HE killed her.......as far as he knows.


Debate is open.......


EDIT: Now imagine MEETING LUKE. MY GOD...your SON. The child that your wife was carrying. There is NO WAY Vader couldn't be thinking about Padme. Luke would cause all those feelings and thoughts to come rushing back in.

 

I'm sure he does. But I'm also sure he tries to block it out as much as possible. Its human nature to miss some one and especially someone as obbsessed as Anakin with Padme.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

I firmly believe that from the Death Star scene in Revenge of the Sith until the time he finds out Luke is his son after A New Hope, Vader does not think of Padme. To Vader, Anakin is a completely different person and he has shut him out completely. Only after finding out that Luke was his son did the goodness within him begin to stir, which is also when I believe he started to think of Padme again.

 

I completely agree with this.

I cannot conceive that Vader still thinks of her, in fact I now imagine that is what he is thinking of as he turns his back at the end of ESB and walks off the bridge of the star destroyer.

I think that is the first time he has thought of Padme in 20 years.

She's dead and he killed her, to live with the loss, even if he doesn't feel guilt, he'd have to shut her out.

I don't believe he's been thinking of her for decades, not at all.

Not until after he comes face to face with Luke, in a duel no less, does he believe that he's actually his son which naturally leads to thinking of Padme.

It might be possible to insert a scene where he thinks of her into RotJ but, while i give credit for originality, I don't think that DarthTerminus idea of inserting her into ESB would be appropriate to the story.

Sadly I could invision Lucas doing this, he doesn't want us to see Vader as evil, even though that is what makes Vader the icon he is.

I fear that softening the character in this way would finally destroy his mystique, or what is left of it after the PT.

 

Anakin was highly emotional and highly obsessive, especially as Vader. Anakin/Vader may do his best to ignore the past, but I can't imagine there aren't times when Padmé doesn't haunt his thoughts. Hell, Anakin said she haunted him in AOTC and this was during the 10 years after they separated as childhood acquaintances! You're telling me after they actually fell in love and got married, after Anakin turned to the dark side for her, that he'd simply FORGET? No way. He may not want to remember, but that doesn't mean she didn't plague his thoughts from time to time. It seems especially likely that once he learned of Luke that she'd be foremost on his mind. Maybe he didn't always think good thoughts about her as Vader, but I'm sure he was thinking something sometimes.

 

oh i agree she did enter his thoughts occassionally.

When this happened i'm quite certain he directed as much hate as he could muster at her, after all if she hadn't betrayed him and brought kenobi to mustafar he wouldn't be in that suit.

I don't think there's a chance in **** he is thinking he misses her or anything so sappy in the OT until after the ESB duel.

EDIT:

some men come to hate a woman who cheats on them, i am one of those men and i had a few years of intense hate towards the X before i reached the point where i didn't think of her anymore.

The way she betrayed Anakin and the end result for him is millions of times worse than what was done to me, I don't think he'd forgive her, not while he's still darth vader.

After Anakin resurfaces maybe, but as Vader, he'd have only hate for Padme and i imagine would have destroyed anything that reminded him of her in the 20 years between 3 & 4.

 

I think he ignores her and everything else he lost as hard as possible. If it comes up, he probably fuels his rage with those memories and immediately goes somewhere where he is in complete control.

Once he learns of his son, I'm sure he thinks more and more about her (and Shmi?). You know, when his "conflict" starts.

 

Apparently so...
[image=http://www.joecorroney.com/portfolio/Star_Wars/Star_Wars_Misc_Art/VadersRemorse.jpg]

 

Padme never existed when the OT was made, so no he CAN'T be thinking of her.

 

Pardon me.....maybe I should qualify that statement for certain people.

KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW NOW ABOUT PADME AND ANAKIN............

Does Vader think of Padme at all in the Original Trilgy.


Jeez.

 

Of course he thinks of Padme! Vader knows that he was absolutely tricked into becoming what he became and Padme played a large role in that. He betrayed the Jedi, fought Obi-1, and turned his back on his rightful destiny all for nothing. I would think that he thought about that everyday for 20 years.

 

It seems to me that he does think of his past life when he really needs to get angry about something. Every speck of it is completely gone and he did a lot of it.

Enter Luke. Now when he thinks about his past life, he starts to feel a little conflicted. Yes, Padme is gone but the child that he created with her still lives. Memories come flooding in to make him angry but to also make him regretful of his actions. Finally, regret takes over the anger and instead of making similar mistakes all over again, he pitches the Emperor over the rail. He fixed things in the end. He was always good at fixing things. Nothing could undo all the horrible things that he had done in the past, but he stopped the horrible things from continuing.

I would think that not a single day went by when he didn't think of his old life.

Carnage

 

Not only does he think of padme, but it would play a more significant role in his break from the emperor. Vader was told that he killed Padme before she had children. to learn that Padme bore children meant that he did not kill her and possibly that the emperor had lied to him. vader also joined the dark side to save those he cared for. He did not get the chance to save Padme, but when given the chance to save his son, he did not want to make the same mistake twice.

 

I say no to you, and for the reason of how Palps kept bringing up all the disasterous footage in his mind to keep the evil the hatred, the jealousy, all that inside till the time came. To see how he acted with Obi Wan was unbelievable, but then to see Luke, and know that the emporer lied to him, and to surge within him a new hatred to overthrow Palps. That my friend is the reason why it all turned around. To have him thinking that Padme was always right that Anakin had good in him, it was just about one little lie, that made Vader......that there is a wild one to think on!

 

Yeah, once Vader learned Obi-Wan was alive, I think little flashes of memory started to erupt. Then he learned of this mysterious "Luke Skywalker" after ANH and that probably triggered a lot more stuff. This explains why Vader seems more contemplative and cool in TESB and ROTJ: he is constantly in deep thought, remembering better times, getting angry over (what he views as) his betrayal, wondering how Palps fits into all this, questions, emotions, bla bla bla. Vader is confused and angry in TESB, but he tries not to show it. By the time ROTJ rolls around, he's pretty much resigned himself to his fate until Luke shows him that there's still a little love in his heart. Aw.

Heh heh.

 

Some of the novels shed light on his thoughts, I think. Like that Lord of the Sith one. But from the films, even in the original trilogy before Padme had a name, she was still a factor in his past. He'd be the worst case of post-truamatic stress disorder ever with all that occured during his fall. That can have a lot of effects, from flashbacks to totally locking out memories. In the years after ROTS he deffinately thought of Padme a lot, and each time it hurt like hell, but he would keep it totally private.

 

"Padme never existed when the OT was made, so no he CAN'T be thinking of her."

"Padme"...no.

The wife of his children, whatever her name was at the time...yes.

"The man Leia called Father was obviously not her father. He is part of the group that ends up having to fight Darth Vader in the film that will be out in 2003 [laughs]. The part that I never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a backstory for her in earlier drafts but it basically didn't survive. When I got to Jedi, I wanted one of the kids to have some kind of memory of her because she will be a key figure in the new episodes I'm writing. But I really debated on whether or not Leia should remember her." - George Lucas: The Annotated Screenplays

Together they lifted the heavy helmet from Vader's head-inside the mask portion, a complicated breathing apparatus had to be disentangled, a speaking modulator and view-screen detached from the power unit in back. But when the mask was finally off and set aside, Luke gazed on his father's face. It was the sad, benign face of an old man. Bald, beardless, with a mighty scar running from the top of his head to the back of the scalp, he had unfocused, deepset, dark eyes, and his skin was pasty white, for it had not seen the sun in two decades. The old man smiled weakly; tears glazed his eyes, now. For a moment, he looked not too unlike Ben.
It was a face full of meanings, that Luke would forever recall. Regret, he saw most plainly. And shame. Memories could be seen flashing across it?memories of rich times. And horrors. And love, too.
It was a face that hadn't touched the world in a lifetime. In Luke's lifetime. He saw the wizened nostrils twitch, as they tested a first, tentative smell. He saw the head tilt imperceptibly to listen-for the first time without electronic auditory amplification. Luke felt a pang of remorse that the only sounds now to be heard were those of explosions, the only smells, the pungent sting of electrical fires. Still, it was a touch. Palpable, unfiltered.
He saw the old eyes focus on him. Tears burned Luke's cheeks, fell on his father's lips. His father smiled at the taste.
It was a face that had not seen itself in twenty years.
Vader saw his son crying, and knew it must have been at the horror of the face they boy beheld.
It intensified, momentarily, Vader's own sense of anguish-to his crimes, now, he added guilt at the imagined repugnance of his appearance. But then this brought him to mind of the way he used to look-striking, and grand, with a wry tilt to his brow that hinted of invincibility and took in all of life with a wink. Yes, that was how he'd looked once.
And this memory brought a wave of other memories with it. Memories of brotherhood, and home. His dear wife. The freedom of deep space. Obi-wan. Obi-wan, his friend?and how that friendship had turned. Turned, he knew not how-but got injected, nonetheless, with some uncaring virulence that festered, until?hold. These were memories he wanted none of, not now. Memories of molten lava, crawling up his back?no.
This boy had pulled him from that pit-here, now, with this act. This boy was good.
The boy was good, and the boy had come from him-so there must have been good in him, too. He smiled up again at his son, and for the first time, loved him. And for the first time in many long years, loved himself again, as well.
Suddenly he smelled something-flared his nostrils, sniffed once more. Wildflowers, that was what it was. Just blooming; it must be spring.
And there was thunder-he cocked his head, strained his ears. Yes, spring thunder, for a spring rain. To make the flowers bloom.
Yes, there?he felt a raindrop on his lips. He licked the delicate droplet?but wait, it wasn't sweetwater, it was salty, it was?a teardrop.
He focused on Luke once again, and saw his son was crying. Yes that was it, he was tasting his boy's grief-because he looked so horrible; because he was so horrible.
But he wanted to make i

 

If this is how everyone sees the character of Darth Vader when watching the OT now then Lucas never should have made the PT.

This quote is the total destruction of the greatest Iconic VILLAN of all film history.

He's turned into a sympathetic hero who of course would weep and pine for padme everyday for the next 20 years.

Thank god I don't see it that way, not for a split second.

I'm convinced if he thought of her at all after going in the suit it was with nothing but pure hatred.

After all it was she who betrayed him, if not for Padme he would not be in that suit, not because he did it for her, but because she put him in the suit by betraying him.

I think it's because some of the fans are so fond of the prequal characters that they project their feelings onto Vader, a character with no heart or concience who does not have these feelings.

 

Words of wisdom Malikail, and I agree with you 100%.

Even watching it 1-6, I have no sympathy for Vader, never will and never did. I understand his whole story now, but if Lucas is asking me to watch the saga 1-6 as the tragedy of Darth Vader now, I find it an uncompelling story.

I always liked Vader as the antagonist to Luke, and even the redemption angle in ROTJ gave the saga a different take than most movie series, but Luke was still the main character, as I watched the SW saga from 77-83 through the eyes of the good guys.

Watching 1-6, you have to watch it as Anakin/Darth Vaders story, and you have to feel for the character throughout the movies, as he is good, bad, and then redeemed. And I guess that is where Lucas failed, cause that story just doesn't work for me, I will always see at as Lukes story.

It is a shame cause I enjoy all 6 movies, but I just don't like the story of Anakin/Darth Vader encompassing the story of the saga now. I say if it works for you thats great, but it isn't the movies that make me only enjoy the story 4-6 now, it is the overall arc of the movies about Anakin/Vader, it just doesn't do anything for me like the 3 part story of Luke, Leia and Han do.

 

Nonsense! He put himself in that suit. It's nobody's fault but his own...

 

if you think he spent the next 20 years blaming himself for his situation then I think we have different definitions of the word "hate" and the way Vader acts in the OT should in my oppinion be seen through the prism of hate.

The problem i see, and i keep seeing is that the fans of the PT are projecting their fondness for Padme's character onto Darth Vader (circa OT) and in my oppinion this is completely innapropriate.

 

I agree compeltely that Vader has nothing but hate for Padme. He would hate Padme for having betrayed him to the Jedi, for being blind enough to turn down the power he was offering her, and for turning against him. Anakin, once he resurfaces in RotJ likely would have felt horrible about what happened to Padme, but not Vader.

 

How can you guys say he hated Padme??

What are the first words out of his mouth?

"Where is Padme? Is she safe? Is she alright?
"No she was alive! I felt it!"

He loved her.

He could never "hate" Padme, Vader or not.

 

yes and that is part of where lucas went wrong with the PT.

He wants us to think of Vader as the evil one and Anakin as the good one. Maybe he is showing us that scene to show us the moment Anakin actually died.

Are you telling me that the same Vader who kills a man with his bare hands goes home and misses the wife he killed?

Let's not soften Darth Vader any further, he's already been destroyed by the PT.

EDIT:

please show me one moment or shread of evidence from the OT that Vader misses her.

It cannot be proven that Vader misses her at the time of ANH by pointing to events of the PT.

 

Ill give u 2 from that time period, first look at the pic above, it is names "Vader's Remorse." Vader spacificaly built his meditation chamber to contain his force prescense from Palps, so it not only allowed him to remove his suit, but allowed him to express himself in teh Force in ways that he otherwise could not outside of it.
Seccodn Vader had a huge murial or tapistry i guess u could call it, of Padme hung in the imperial Palace adn absolutly refused to allow it be removed, and i have read that when he had the time he woudl sit on the floor adn stare at it for hours, killing anyone who interupted him.

~Azure_Angel