Did Leia and Vader Begin To Sense Their Connection In the Carbon-Freezing Chamber?

When I think about the Skywalker family ties, one moment in the OT always stands out in my mind - leaving me wondering all these many years: In TESB, when Han is about to be frozen and is yelling at Chewie to stop his attacks on the stormtroopers, Leia and Darth Vader exchange a certain look. A seemingly very telling look - a clue of what we are to later discover in ROTJ.
Vader did not sense her presence in ANH mainly because of her association with the Organa family. She did not sense his either because she had no idea about his background, either. Plus, she was busy being tortured!
But I think they started to sense something they couldnt quite place in TESB. I believe the reason for this is because Vader now knew Luke's identity, and knew that Leia was very close to him. Now that he knew he had any offspring. He was sensing their bond through her, and that bond was beginning to make him wonder - and vice versa. I also think that his thoughts and wonderings triggered Leia's then unknown Force abilities. She was picking up on this a bit somehow. They began to sense a bit of their connection. True, Leia doesn't exactly have fond memories of the torture she had suffered under Vader back in ANH. But there was much more to that silent exvhange of looks.
I think that is why Vader had changed his mind about leaving her on Bespin and having her put onto his ship instead. I believe he sensed something about her now, and wanted her with him in order to figure out what it was. That's why he "altered the deal" with Lando yet again.

I can't help but speculate what would have happened if Leia and Vader known about each other while being in each others' presence at any given point in the OT. I also wonder if, while reading Luke's thoughts before their final duel in ROTJ, if Vader had figured out that Leia was the twin sister he picked up on. He never mentioned her by name after that - even when he was dying. But I wonder if he knew.

 

I've always wondered about this, too. It seems that even in ANH, there is some sort of connection between them. Even though she is kept prisoner, Vader seems to want to delay her execution. "She may yet be of some use to us." Does he really mean that or does he just want Leia around for longer so he can figure out the connection they share? That's always puzzled me. And then of course that scene in TESB when they share the glance. I do believe Vader knows there's some connection. And finally that scene in ROTJ when Vader finds out Luke has a twin sister. I believe he knows it's Leia and he's finally figured out the puzzle.

 

LJCN,

You are so dead on.

If you see what Leia is wearing it's not much different than the white suit Padme had on during the Arena battle.

I know for a fact Vader was 'catching feelings' as he could not keep his eyes off her. Plus they kept running into each other, and I think Leia knew Vader presumably before ANH as she dictates to him with recognition.

I think once Vader knew Luke was his son, he felt the same 'type' of feeling from Leia and was extremely discombobulated at that point.

So like you said, he altered the deal and wanted to hold Leia and find out her lineage, perhaps seeing a connection to Padme.

Great thread.

 

Hey, Thanks for the responses so far. I mainly feel drawn to Luke and now Anakin, and always thought he was cool and very interesting as Darth Vader. But I SO would have loved to see more of the Leia/Vader connection as well as more of her realization of her Force abilities.
I agree with the point about Leia reminding him of Padme. I had forgotten to include that in my first posting. In some ways, she is much like Anakin was, but she is so much like her mother as well that I imagine it would be nearly impossible for Vader NOT to be reminded of Padme when in Leia's presence.
I also now notice more, after your replies, that Vader indeed does seem to keep putting off her execution. Good point!
Thanks again for replying!

 

Just a quick reply from me...
In the book "Truce at Bakura" set immediately after ROTJ, it describes how Anakin visits Leia as a spirit and asks forgiveness for destroying Alderaan.
Of course, Leia tells him to leave (in a more direct way). I dont think he would return to her if he didnt know she was his daughter.

 

I remember reading that in "Truce" "a long time ago..."! Thank you for refreshing my memory of it! No doubt he would know after passing on. True. I was, however, referring to the time before he died. My guess is that he did have it figured out before his final duel with Luke. Just wished he would have addressed her by name to confirm it for us.

 

Just correcting a typo. "...REFERRED to her by name", I meant!

 

Hey! I just thought of a couple of things that may sort of tie in with this! See my other-somewhat related threads:
Here in the "Classic Trilogy" section
("Did Vader Sense More Than Obi-Wan's Presence In ANH When The Falcon Showed Up")
and one in the "Episode III Spoilers" section
("Will Anakin Know That Padme Is Pregnant, But Think He Sees Her Die That Way?")

 

up, this is a good discussion.


I noticed the look between them in TESB, but had never thought about that way, or for that matter the delayal of execution.

 

I always thought he looked at her too long in ESB, you might have something. And he did use delay tactics with her as he did with Luke. As you said, "she may still be of some use to us...", etc. I think they both might of felt something.

And your right, her name was never mentioned in front of Vader, even after Anakin came back. Hmmm...

I'm of the opinion that maybe he knows she's pregnant(doesn't know about the twins part) and something happens in Ep III...

 

Another scene where its possible Leia "feels" a connection to Vader: in ROTJ when the gang is in the stolen imperial shuttle, waiting for their clearence code to be cleared, Luke says "Vader's on that ship" then the camera cuts to Leia who looks at Luke and makes a look. I believe there is more behind that look. Something that ties into the concept of this thread. Take a look.

 

...well yes, if these characters were real people you could probably argue that something more was going on "behind the scenes". Unfortunatly, they're NOT real, and Lucas DIDN'T have the whole brother/sister thing planned out from the very beginning. Any looks, feelings or phrases that happen to suggest that he did are simply a coincedence. There was no "meaningful" glance between Leia and Vader on cloud city, it was a FEARFUL glance. Leia had been in Vader's clutches before, and it probably wasn't an experiance she was looking forward to repeating. As far as Vader suggesting a delay of Leia's execution in ANH, that was a plot device to keep her alive long enough for Luke and company to rescue her.

 

It's true that Lucas didn't have everything figured out so all the looks and everything are purely coincidental. But you've got to look at it this way: whether Lucas or the actors planned it a certain way or not, the fact remains that all the movies are part of a saga, and the fact that Leia and Luke and Vader are related is still true throughout all the movies. So even though Carrie Fisher didn't think that her character was feeling any connection to Vader is TESB, perhaps in the world of the Star Wars Saga, Leia was feeling a connection. You can speculate on that if you want. It seems like most people who take the time to post on the JC are fans who make the movies real for them, at least to a degree. So we don't try to think about what Lucas had planned or what the actors were thinking when they did a scene. We just take the saga for what it is, and the relationships for what they are.

I hope that made sense and didn't sound to preachy or anything. It's just my opinion.

 

Am I allowed to use profanity here?

Oh well. I always figured her ESB look was a look of hate. I mean, Vader is going to freeze her boyfriend, and he tortured her for god knows how long in the previous movie while "discussing" the location of the secret base. The look seems to say "**** you."

 

I agree with that one too.

 

Wow, LASTJEDICHOSENONE, I never thought of that but now that you've said it it definantly seems possible. I always wondered why Vader never sensed that Leia was his lil' girl.

I wonder what would happen if Vader captured her...I always liked the idea of the father/daughter team. Unfortunatly it remains one of the less explored ideas.

I think he figured out it was Leia, otherwise I think he would have forced her name out of Luke. If he didn't, he could always put two and two together and realize that, wahey, the princess girl who looks like Padme but acts like him? Their kid.

 

No she was just angry. Lucas had yet to make them related. Leia was just going to be Leia Organa not a Skywalker. I read that in an interview with Gary Kurtz. Luke's real sister was just going to be so chick on the other side of the galaxy. However Vader and Leia ended up related so I guess there could be some actual family tension there now.

Aaron

 

This is a great topic.It too has been on my mind every time I see ESB and then ROTJ That look they gave each other in ESB was a bit creepy because it was like they both felt something that connected them together.And then later when the Falcon leaves Leia starts to feel the Force flow through her.
Luke:Leia,here me.
Leia:Luke.We have to go back.
Lando:Go back but what about those fighters?
Leia:I know where Luke is.Chewie just do it.
Lando:But
Chewiegrowls)
Lando:All right,all right.

 

Yeah, I say "who cares if Lucas didn't originally intend for Leia and Luke and Vader to all be related? Where's the fun in thnking like that? Just accept that they are related and in the Star Wars world they might have felt all these connections!"

Sorry for the outburst.

 

...okay, then how about the look Leia and CHEWY exchanged in the carbon freezing chamber? Do you think that there was more going on between those two then anyone suspected? Hmmmm, I guess: "hung like a wookie", IS more then just an old saying.

 

You can believe whatever you want about Chewie and Leia, Diogonese. Although Chewie isn't Force-sensitive and he is not rlated to Leia by blood, but whatever you want to believe...

And I do not think that anything was "going on" between Chewie and Leia.

 

No, Vader was just watching her suffer.
Any way, Lucas wrote about "Leia Skywalker" almost three years after TESB as we all know.

 

Sorry, Guys 'n' Gals. I've been out of town for awhile. Glad to see this post is still going, and better yet, making fellow fans think/wonder/ponder as I have about this!
To those of you who replied that the whole Skywalker connection wasn't originally planned this way, I "knew this to be true". However, notice how GL takes full advantage of these little exchanges between actors to make it all tie in! Another example - not to get off track: look at Alec Guiness' expressions while discussing Darth Vader with Luke. Owen and Beru's exchange of lines when Luke left the room. And many other such exchanges. It all goes PERFECTLY with how the plots turned out. Too perfectly. You don't think GL noticed these things as he was going along? Sure, he did! Now that we are learning more and more of the back stories via the PT, watching the OT is continuing to be a very different, new experience each time.
As for the Leia/Vader exchange in the carbon freezing chamber, I think THAT was planned. We were dropped a few hints about her throughout the second half of ESB. It was practically given away in the scene where Leia hears Luke's plea to rescue him. Yes, Lucas had it planned in ESB.
But, again, as pointed out above (Thank You!) that we ARE talking about the characters - not the actors (Much as I appreciate THEM, too!).
Leia DID fear and hate Darth Vader, very true. But there was definately MORE to that look on Bespin. And good call on that ROTJ shuttle scene up there! Thanks again for all your responses! Take Care. "May the Force Be With You"!

 

LJCO,

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

Excellent thread...

I was watching ESB last night, and noticed the same thing, that silent exchange between Leia and Vader.

I agree with everything said, that Vader WAS tipped off about Leia at that moment.

Just wanted to add a small wrinkle: perhaps Leia's painful separation from Han (a loved one) at that moment caused a small disturbance in the force that eminated from her unknowingly, much like Anakin's feelings after witnessing Shmi's death that Yoda felt. That might have been a clue that made Vader change his mind about Leia as well as another step to realize who she really is.

Discuss!